Is God omnipotent and controls everything?

[Swag365]

He doesn’t need to save anyone in order to be glorified. In fact, if He saved no one, He’d be glorified.

If God does not need to save anyone for his glory, neither does he need to damn anyone for his glory. So then according to Reformed theology God damned certain people to hell, with no possibility of salvation, even before the creation of the world, even though that was unnecessary for his purpose of glorifying himself. Thus, your religion makes God a moral monster.

 

[Hammster]

He didn't have to save anyone, but doing so gives Him glory. Even I quess, He is glory within himself.

But not doing so would give Him glory. You argued that His glory comes from saving us. But everything He does brings Him glory because He is glorious.

 

[Hammster]

If God does not need to save anyone for his glory, neither does he need to damn anyone for his glory. So then according to Reformed theology God damned certain people to hell, with no possibility of salvation, even before the creation of the world, even though that was unnecessary for his purpose of glorifying himself. Thus, your religion makes God a moral monster.

You are correct in that He doesn’t need to damn people for His glory. And the creation was not necessary for His glory. He is completely self-sufficient for everything.

 

[zoidar]

But not doing so would give Him glory.

How and why would that give Him glory?

 

[Done222]

Glory is praise, but is it praise because of His great power, or praise because of His great righteousness?

 

[Hammster]

How and why would that give Him glory?

Because everything He does gives Him glory. But if you want more specific, punishing sin gives Him glory.

 

[zoidar]

But if you want more specific, punishing sin gives Him glory.

Do you got scripture for that?

 

[QvQ]

Exodus 24:17 “And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.”
Lord's Prayer: For Thine is the power and Glory forever.
Exodus 40:34-35 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
God is Glory. In these verses, it seems to be a manifestation or an attribute. JMHO

 

[Hammster]

Do you got scripture for that?

But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
— Isaiah 53:10

 

[zoidar]

But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.
— Isaiah 53:10

Do I understand you right? You mean since God was glorified when Jesus was punished for our sins, God is also glorfied when punishing people in everlasting destruction? I hope you aren't saying that!

 

[Hammster]

Do I understand you right? You mean since God was glorified when Jesus was punished for our sins, God is also glorfied when punishing people in everlasting destruction? I hope you aren't saying that!

When Christ was on the cross, was He punished for His sins? No, of course not. He was punished for sins of others. Sin deserves punishment. It shows God’s justice. And God is glorified when He shows any of His attributes.

 

[zoidar]

When Christ was on the cross, was He punished for His sins? No, of course not. He was punished for sins of others. Sin deserves punishment. It shows God’s justice. And God is glorified when He shows any of His attributes.

That's a "yes" then?

 

[Hammster]

That's a "yes" then?

Yes. I keep saying that He’s glorified in everything He does. Are you disagreeing with that?

 

[martymonster]

When he becomes an adult, are you going to keep him locked up in a cage to ensure that he does not commit any crimes?

I'm sorry, who are the adults? Mankind are children, not adults.

 

[zoidar]

Yes. I keep saying that He’s glorified in everything He does. Are you disagreeing with that?

... disagreeing? ... yes.... very much so ...

Is this a common understanding among Calvinists?

 

[zoidar]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Hm ... this has not been the teaching of the Church since the time of Jesus? You don't see that as a problem?

 

[Hammster]

... disagreeing? ... yes.... very much so ...

Is this a common understanding among Calvinists?

That God gets glory in all things? I believe so, but Reformed Theology does have lots of nuances.

 

[zoidar]

That God gets glory in all things? I believe so, but Reformed Theology does have lots of nuances.

Ok... I don't know if I should go further into this discussion, because I have no idea what to say...

 

[Mark Quayle]

None of this proves the specific assertion that @Hammster made in the least. But I hope you felt good about yourself for thinking that you wrote something relevant. You did not.

Hammster said, in response to Zoidar's, "Ah, then I used it correctly. I don't believe God forordains everything.": "Then He foreordains nothing." Already we see here the relevance of Cause-and-Effect. Then when Zoidar responds, "why?", Hammster says: "...everything has an affect on something else. We may not understand how, but there’s always a connection." You still see no relevance to Cause-and-Effect? Every effect is caused, and there is only one First Cause.

 

[Hammster]

Ok... I don't know if I should go further into this discussion, because I have no idea what to say...

Maybe you can explain why you don’t think God is glorified in all that He does.