Is God a Libertarian?

[Landon Caeli]

A concept was brought before me once, that has stuck in my head for years... If God communicates his moral laws to us, through religions, but yet gives us the free will to decide for ourselves how to act, then does that mean Libertarianism is the holiest, and best political philosophy of all?

For instance, I can choose abortion, drugs, homosexuality, racism, fowl-mouthed bigotry toward protected groups and blasphemy towards Islam... And I can literally do these things if I choose to or not through my own free will... Yet I may pay a punishment in the end, after it's done, but I'm allowed to live my life whatever way I choose according to God's nature in the world.

...So should our politics be the same way? Should people be allowed to sin legally the way God allows, as long as we're not physically harming others, or should we be for *preventing* sin, which God does not actually do?

<Disclaimer> This is not about me, this is a philosophical concept that has been presented to me in the past, not really intended for anyone to become defensive over, or for high-fives among tribes... This is just a basic conversation for discussion.

 

[RDKirk]

...So should our politics be the same way? Should people be allowed to sin legally the way God allows, as long as we're not physically harming others, or should we be for *preventing* sin, which God does not actually do?

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? - 1 Corinthians 5

The Body of Christ has no mandate or authority to make pagans act like Christians.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Is God a Librarian.

Hmm, before book was - He Spoke.

Before tree was - He Spoke.

Before anyone to read or make paper - He Spoke.

In terms of being a libertarian, I think it's important to note in the left and right wing political debate that God created the whole bird, not just two wings.

The message of liberty might emulate the feeling of the bird flying in the air, which is a vast improvement over let's rip off the left wing, or the right wing - you know and eat it.

However, liberty might be more like flying - God created, but is not a bird.

"Libertarianism is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association. "

Therefore, Libertarianism is probably just one of the newer ideas that hasn't been tainted by human application. It's still a human idea.

For example, God gives us a life to live - but really experiences pleasure when we trust Him so He can work and live alongside us. So in the sense of the libertarian liberty - not so much since in Him we live, move, and breathe.

The liberty of libertarianism, is not the liberty of the scriptures.

So to the question in the title, Is God a Libertarian? No.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? - 1 Corinthians 5

The Body of Christ has no mandate or authority to make pagans act like Christians.

But God doesn't even force his own body (the Church), let alone those outside the Church to be sinless... Instead, he gives us each liberty and freedom.

So if God doesn't prevent it... Then why should we create worldly laws that serve to do something God Himself has refrained from doing?

 

[d taylor]

__________________​

Wonder why people keep trying to apply human ideas and labels to God.

 

[Landon Caeli]

__________________​

Wonder why people keep trying to apply human ideas and labels to God.

What is it you mean by that?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Such as "Is God a Communist"

 

[Landon Caeli]

Such as "Is God a Communist"

Clearly communism is control, whereas libertarianism is freedom.

...Now ask yourself - does God control our decisions, or do we get to choose? I'm pretty sure God gives me the freedom to choose.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Clearly communism is control, whereas libertarianism is freedom.

...Now ask yourself - does God control our decisions, or do we get to choose? I'm pretty sure I get to choose.

This is the calvinist arminist debate - I tend to sidestep it since God works with me as I trust Him.

So I tend to associate the Christian notion of Liberty and the Secular notion of Liberty being different and quite often at odds one another.

 

[Landon Caeli]

This is the calvinist arminist debate - I tend to sidestep it since God works with me as I trust Him.

So I tend to associate the Christian notion of Liberty and the Secular notion of Liberty being different and quite often at odds one another.

Who is it then, who blends Christianity and the secular world, trying to pass laws based on Christianity into worldly governments?

Because if we're keeping the two things separate on the one hand, yet simultaneously blending them together on the other by voting in a "Christian" manner... Then isn't that total hypocrisy?

Basically this is saying there is a dividing line, but then there is no line.

 

[Sparagmos]

A concept was brought before me once, that has stuck in my head for years... If God communicates his moral laws to us, through religions, but yet gives us the free will to decide for ourselves how to act, then does that mean Libertarianism is the holiest, and best political philosophy of all?

For instance, I can choose abortion, drugs, homosexuality, racism, fowl-mouthed bigotry toward protected groups and blasphemy towards Islam... And I can literally do these things if I choose to or not through my own free will... Yet I may pay a punishment in the end, after it's done, but I'm allowed to live my life whatever way if I choose according to God's nature in the world.

...So should our politics be the same way? Should people be allowed to sin legally the way God allows, as long as we're not physically harming others, or should we be for *preventing* sin, which God does not actually do?

<Disclaimer> This is not about me, this is a phosophical concept that has been presented to me in the past, not really intended for anyone to become defensive over, or for high-fives among tribes... This is just a basic conversation for discussion.

It’s not really liberty when death, eternal punishment, or serious suffering is the consequence.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Who is it then, who blends Christianity and the secular world, trying to pass laws based on Christianity into worldly governments?

Because if we're keeping the two things separate on the one hand, yet simultaneously blending them together on the other by voting in a "Christian" manner... Then isn't that total hypocrisy?

Basically this is saying there is a dividing line, but there is no line.

You're asking though.

Is God a Libertarian?

Shouldn't there be a line?

God draws it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It’s not really liberty when death, eternal punishment, or serious suffering is the consequence.

This is where I was hoping we might go... But to take it further, Jesus told people to "sin no more", but didn't actively prevent sinners from sinning... Instead, he allowed them to sin, by allowing them to nail him to a cross. He also allowed Judas to sin...

So I have to think for myself now, and come to terms why I tend to try and force people not to sin by passing laws that prevent sin, when that goes against Jesus

 

[QvQ]

A concept was brought before me once, that has stuck in my head for years... If God communicates his moral laws to us, through religions, but yet gives us the free will to decide for ourselves how to act, then does that mean Libertarianism is the holiest, and best political philosophy of all?

For instance, I can choose abortion, drugs, homosexuality, racism, fowl-mouthed bigotry toward protected groups and blasphemy towards Islam... And I can literally do these things if I choose to or not through my own free will... Yet I may pay a punishment in the end, after it's done, but I'm allowed to live my life whatever way if I choose according to God's nature in the world.

...So should our politics be the same way? Should people be allowed to sin legally the way God allows, as long as we're not physically harming others, or should we be for *preventing* sin, which God does not actually do?

<Disclaimer> This is not about me, this is a phosophical concept that has been presented to me in the past, not really intended for anyone to become defensive over, or for high-fives among tribes... This is just a basic conversation for discussion.

"If God communicates his moral law to us, through religions" One question I have pondered is Does man know Right from Wrong? And if a secular person doesn't know right from wrong, how can there be free will and accountability?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Is God equivalent with Man's Idea? No.

What we like, God tends to detest anyway.

So it goes for political ideologies.

 

[Sparagmos]

This is where I was hoping we might go... But to take it further, Jesus told people to "sin no more", but didn't actively prevent sinners from sinning... Instead, he allowed them to sin, by allowing them to nail him to a cross. He also allowed Judas to sin...

So I have to think for myself now, and come to terms why I tend to try and force people not to sin by passing laws that prevent sin, when that goes against Jesus

The same problem arises with Libertarianism. Since we are all interdependent and interconnected, “freedom” often results in the powerful being “free” to oppress the weak.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The same problem arises with Libertarianism. Since we are all interdependent and interconnected, “freedom” often results in the powerful being “free” to oppress the weak.

I think that's why the election process, including "ballot measures", becomes an important factor in a free society.

The opposite of freedom, is having a central authority (Authoritarianism). This is IMO, an evil, "anti-Christ" way of governing... Since Christ and God seem libertarian in my view.

 

[QvQ]

Secular law, according to Hobbes, is a social contract. The state of nature is the war of all against all, each acting in their own interest. Civil society breaks down and life become solitary, nasty, brutal and short. If by reasonable argument, a contract can be forged, then law can be instituted amongst men and enforced.
Christian moral law have become secular law when the moral law is reasonable, promotes civil society and has the consent of the governed.

 

[d taylor]

What is it you mean by that?

Well you ask is God a Libertarian. That is a human political system.

As the Bible states God is not a man and his ways are higher.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

You want to see how God governs, take a look at Israel or the coming, 1000 year millennium. When God will rule the earth by His given law. God rules by absolute truth, there will be no miscarriage of justice.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Secular law, according to Hobbes, is a social contract. The state of nature is the war of all against all, each acting in their own interest. Civil society breaks down and life become solitary, nasty, brutal and short. If by reasonable argument, a contract can be forged, then law can be instituted amongst men and enforced.
Christian moral law have become secular law when the moral law is reasonable, promotes civil society and has the consent of the governed.

This (all against all), would be Anarchism. Different from the more civilized Libertarianism, the latter being a rejection of Authoritarianism, and the former being a rejection of civility.

...IMO.