Is freemasonry acceptable for Orthodox?

[Simpleman25]

and that is the problem, that is the bad side of ecumenism. the presupposition that all faiths are equal. if you are EO, you believe that your Church is THE Church, not just a Church.

Churches being equal and ecumenism is not the same thing. Ecumenical believers want a one world church.
That is not what freemasonry is concerned with. That is why we welcome EO & RCC members with open arm's.

What it boils down to is that we are all praying to the same God.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What it boils down to is that we are all praying to the same God.

are we? I (and I am sure you do too) pray to a God revealed in His Son, and if you deny the Son you deny the Father. A Jew, Muslim, Mormon, etc however....

 

[Simpleman25]

My first minister was my uncle. Perhaps I was taught differently than you. In fact I guarantee it!

I was taught the Holy Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. (Although now the term used is spirit)

It was just a small country church in the farm lands of Kansas. I was taught that above everything else, Jesus represented love and forgiveness.

I try to cling to that. Although sometimes in here I may act a jerk, or say things I shouldn't.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, can a Muslim Mason and a Christian Mason be praying to the same God? one professes a Unitarian, non incarnate God that spoke to Mohammed. the other pray to a Trinitarian, Incarnate God who did not speak to Mohammed. Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, etc all can be classified as believing is some kind of Divine Architect, can we say that they also pray to the same God?

and I was taught the Trinity as well

 

[Simpleman25]

well, can a Muslim Mason and a Christian Mason be praying to the same God? one professes a Unitarian, non incarnate God that spoke to Mohammed. the other pray to a Trinitarian, Incarnate God who did not speak to Mohammed. Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, etc all can be classified as believing is some kind of Divine Architect, can we say that they also pray to the same God?

and I was taught the Trinity as well

You and I both know the two God's are not the same.

When Freemasonry was founded in England it was based in Christianity. Since masonry has turned global, various changes have been made to accommodate the country the lodge is in.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You and I both know the two God's are not the same.

When Freemasonry was founded in England it was based in Christianity. Since masonry has turned global, various changes have been made to accommodate the country the lodge is in.

so why would I want to stand arm in arm, in a lodge with an altar (as you pointed out) and utter prayers with folks whose beliefs are antichrist?

 

[Simpleman25]

so why would I want to stand arm in arm, in a lodge with an altar (as you pointed out) and utter prayers with folks whose beliefs are antichrist?

I never have, so I have no first hand experience.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I never have, so I have no first hand experience.

yeah, you might not, but Freemasonry allows the possibility since it only vaguely defines God as the Grand Architect or whatever. so you have this mixing of prayers to the true God, and false gods, at an altar with common ritual....that is ecumenism in the bad sense.

 

[Simpleman25]

You're not getting this. If I'm in my home lodge, praying with other Christians, none of what you just said applies.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You're not getting this. If I'm in my home lodge, praying with other Christians, none of what you just said applies.

and if a Muslim Mason comes into your Lodge?

 

[searn77]

Searn77,


1. Exactly. Read the above response.

2. Yes there is. God created heaven & earth. Therefore he was also the architect.

3. Yes and no. They must believe in God. No atheist can become a mason.

4. Of course. We have the Bible open on the alter at all meetings. We begin and end all meetings with prayer.

5. Yes. King Solomon and the building of his temple by working masons are important to masonry.

6. Since I don't live in every country I can't say with 100% certainty one way or the other. I will say that in the US that is true.


Good questions.

Thank you for your responses.

Orthodox Christians believe that the faith we hold was revealed to us by Jesus Christ, and that He also established our Church. Therefore, we absolutely cherish our faith and Church. This means that we can also be quite protective of it too, especially when people attempt to bring in heretical beliefs (whether they do it out of ignorance or with an evil intention) which have a danger of turning people away from Christ, away from the faith Christ revealed, and away from the Church Christ established.

The way we pray to God and worship God is just as important to us as our faith. It is all wrapped up together. Because of this, it is not permissible for us to engage in prayer and religious rituals with others. It is not out of hatred that we refrain, but rather out of a love for God and a love for others. God created the Church for us to unite ourselves to Him, pray to Him, and worship Him. If I began praying and worshiping with people outside of the Church, this would be a false union, as this is not the way that Christ has set up. We must be united in faith and united in the Church before we can be united in prayer or worship.

Also, if I began praying and worshiping with someone outside of the Church, it will be that much harder for them to perceive the truth of the Orthodox faith. They will think that by my praying and worshiping with them, I am giving consent to their beliefs. Maybe they'll think that since they believe in the Trinitarian God, and that I'm praying and worshiping with them, it is not important for them to be received into the Church. But this is a false notion. Non-Orthodox people need to be aware of the importance of uniting to Christ in His Church.

For these reasons, it would not be permissible for an Orthodox Christian to be a Freemason.

 

[prodromos]

You're not getting this. If I'm in my home lodge, praying with other Christians, none of what you just said applies.

Until a group of Freemasons of Hindu belief, or Moslem belief come visiting. You admit that they would be welcome to join the members of your home lodge in prayer and also read from their own sacred writings?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Also, if I began praying and worshiping with someone outside of the Church, it will be that much harder for them to perceive the truth of the Orthodox faith. They will think that by my praying and worshiping with them, I am giving consent to their beliefs. Maybe they'll think that since they believe in the Trinitarian God, and that I'm praying and worshiping with them, it is not important for them to be received into the Church. But this is a false notion. Non-Orthodox people need to be aware of the importance of uniting to Christ in His Church.

For these reasons, it would not be permissible for an Orthodox Christian to be a Freemason.

this

 

[Simpleman25]

and if a Muslim Mason comes into your Lodge?

He would not be allowed. My lodge and others, only allow Christians to attend lodge.

 

[ArmyMatt]

He would not be allowed. My lodge and others, only allow Christians to attend lodge.

what kind of Christian? predestination or free will? saints or no saints? sacraments or none? what about ecclesiology? even within the Christian community there are huge differences in theology. so what happens when a Christians who thinks saint veneration is idolatry prays along side an Anglo-Catholic who thinks it is necessary? in both people's beliefs call the other one a heretic, and yet they are both praying at the same altar (and for many Protestants, prayer and worship are the same thing).

and while your Lodge might be okay with Christians only, Freemasonry in general is more open.

 

[Simpleman25]

what kind of Christian? predestination or free will? saints or no saints? sacraments or none? what about ecclesiology? even within the Christian community there are huge differences in theology. so what happens when a Christians who thinks saint veneration is idolatry prays along side an Anglo-Catholic who thinks it is necessary? in both people's beliefs call the other one a heretic, and yet they are both praying at the same altar (and for many Protestants, prayer and worship are the same thing).

and while your Lodge might be okay with Christians only, Freemasonry in general is more open.

Globally that may be true.

For me their is to much debate about who's right. To me if you tell me you're a Christian, that's all I need.

The debates that rage globally over calendars, interpretations of the history, all types of debates.

It's unnecessary. You pray your way and I'll pray mine. Neither one of, us are more right than the other.

 

[ArmyMatt]

For me their is to much debate about who's right. To me if you tell me you're a Christian, that's all I need.

and that's the problem, that is a very modernist view. no early Christian would think that. plus Mormons consider themselves Christian, and Joseph Smith was a Mason. that says a lot in my opinion.

The debates that rage globally over calendars, interpretations of the history, all types of debates.

we're not talking about that we are talking about theology and belief.

It's unnecessary. You pray your way and I'll pray mine. Neither one of, us are more right than the other.

in a sense you are totally correct, in another sense you could not be more wrong.

 

[Simpleman25]

Smith wasn't a Mason. His father and brother were. That's how he stole the masonic things that are in mormonism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Smith wasn't a Mason. His father and brother were. That's how he stole the masonic things that are in mormonism.

he founded a Lodge in Illinois, and he borrowed a lot of Masonic stuff in his worship as you said. his brother and father were merely Masons first. but he was one.

 

[Simpleman25]

He wasn't a Mason. His 'lodge' was not recognized as a regular lodge. Like most things in his life, he used fraud and lies to get what he wanted.