Is freemasonry acceptable for Orthodox?

[Simpleman25]

yes, although I am sure there are some prominent Orthodox, even clergy, who were Masons. just because something is deemed dogmatic, sinful man doesn't always listen.

There have always been rumors of masons in high places within the Catholic church. I don't recall the name, but I believe it was a pope that was murdered or died at the Vatican. Many in authority of the church rumored that he was murdered by rogue priests that were also masons.

The rumors continue today that many prominent men at the Vatican are masons. That the only reason the church doesn't change it's policy is that it would make the church look bad after all the years of being against masonry.

Look, I have nothing against Catholicism. My oldest daughter converted for marriage. That also makes 2 of my grandkids Catholic as they were christened in the church.

It boils down to this for me. If you don't like what masonry is about, then don't join. It's not for everyone.

The part I really dislike is when some of you make comments about masonry based on incorrect data. Don't blindly believe something without doing quality research.

The link provided in an earlier post was chock full of false comments about masonry, York rite, Scottish rite and Shriners.

 

[prodromos]

can you show us where Saint Irenaeus and Saint Cyprian rebel against the pope, the quotes please.

Rebelled? They rebuked the bishop of Rome because he was in the wrong.

AS I have shown the pope signed the councils, Not the emperor. and the first seven councils were in the east, because there were the heresies.

And Rome has had another 14 'ecumenical' councils since then. Seems that break from the East hasn't been working out too well for you by your logic.

And yet, There was a council in Constantinople of the arrian greeks, that was held before the first Council of Constantinople that we hold as canonical,

No we don't. That council was rejected by the Church soon after it was held. There were many orthodox bishops who refused to accept the decisions of that council despite pressure from the civil authorities. The pope was only one among many bishops who rejected the council

 

[ArmyMatt]

There have always been rumors of masons in high places within the Catholic church. I don't recall the name, but I believe it was a pope that was murdered or died at the Vatican. Many in authority of the church rumored that he was murdered by rogue priests that were also masons.

The rumors continue today that many prominent men at the Vatican are masons. That the only reason the church doesn't change it's policy is that it would make the church look bad after all the years of being against masonry.

Look, I have nothing against Catholicism. My oldest daughter converted for marriage. That also makes 2 of my grandkids Catholic as they were christened in the church.

It boils down to this for me. If you don't like what masonry is about, then don't join. It's not for everyone.

The part I really dislike is when some of you make comments about masonry based on incorrect data. Don't blindly believe something without doing quality research.

The link provided in an earlier post was chock full of false comments about masonry, York rite, Scottish rite and Shriners.

I don't care about the Vatican. our own Orthodox holy elders say it is demonic so that is enough for me.

 

[Simpleman25]

I don't care about the Vatican. our own Orthodox holy elders say it is demonic so that is enough for me.

It's not demonic in any fashion. However, if it's what you believe, then as I said, it's not for you.

 

[prodromos]

It's not demonic in any fashion. However, if it's what you believe, then as I said, it's not for you.

At what level are you involved?

 

[Simpleman25]

I am a 33rd degree mason. A young 33rd degree in comparison to others. The 33rd degree is more honorary than anything else and most often awarded to men of a more senior age.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the OP was about Orthodoxy and Masonry, not Protestantism and Masonry. the Church says it's demonic, that is the answer.

 

[Simpleman25]

For you that is the answer. As I said, it is a wrong answer. There is nothing demonic in my lodge. Unless one of the older guys makes really strong coffee one night. Other than that nothing demonic whatsoever.

 

[ArmyMatt]

For you that is the answer. As I said, it is a wrong answer. There is nothing demonic in my lodge. Unless one of the older guys makes really strong coffee one night. Other than that nothing demonic whatsoever.

well, knowing a few Freemason friends and having some in my family, yes it is demonic. very subtly demonic. your lodge might not be and a lot of the local ones I know are more about fraternity and such, but St Seraphim of Sarov and our holy elders say it is demonic. therefore it is demonic. and as I said, the OP was the Orthodox opinion, not the Methodist opinion

 

[Simpleman25]

I am speaking as a Christian and telling you it's not demonic.

 

[ArmyMatt]

speaking as an Orthodox Christian with friends and family who were involved, and one who trusts his Church, it is. many Christians don't think Mormons are pagans, but they are.

 

[Simpleman25]

Mormons? Where did that come from?

 

[ArmyMatt]

you said as a Christian, Masonry is not demonic. I said so what. just because certain Christians say something is fine, from the POV of the Orthodox, that does not matter. the OP was directed at the ORTHODOX view of Masonry. your opinion, not being Orthodox, does not matter.

 

[searn77]

There are a couple of articles I know about written by Orthodox Christians regarding Freemasonry. Both of these articles can be found online. From reading these articles you'll see why the Church condemns Freemasonry.

What About….Freemasonery? by (then) Fr. Alexey Young

The Origins of Freemasonry by Vladimir Moss

Here are a few quotes from Fr. Alexey's article that get to the heart of the matter:

The Lodge claims to accept men of all creeds, and to lead them along the road of moral perfectibility to "Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity" (the very motto of the French Revolution),

There are, however, some Masonic authorities who openly admit that the purpose of the society is not purely fraternal. Albert Pike, in his exhaustive compendium, Morals and Dogma (a Masonic source, 1871), writes: "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction in religion" (p. 213). Requisite for membership in the Lodge is belief in a Supreme Being (who is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe) and the immortality of the soul. Every meeting opens with a prayer addressed to this Supreme Being. Christians are assured that they can pray to their God, although discussion of particular religious creeds is forbidden, as well as any mention of Jesus Christ (ostensibly because Masonry seeks not to offend anyone's personal religious beliefs).

Given a superficial acquaintance with Masonic teaching, one can understand how an unthinking Christian can be deceived into believing that there's nothing wrong in his being a Mason· This deception is reinforced by the strong parallels between Masonic dogma and Christianity from which it has taken many basic concepts--lifting some directly, one can say deliberately, from the Scriptures. "The great commandment of Masonry is this: ' A new commandment give I unto you: that ye love one another' "(Pike, 18). St. Paul is frequently quoted: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" In “Christian” lodges, the Sacred Book (which together with the square and compass comprise the indispensable "furniture" of the lodge) is the Holy Bible. Masonry even claims to "reverentially enforce the sublime lessons of Him Who died upon the Cross" (Pike, 221).

Indeed, Masonry reverences equally Moses, Confucius, Zoroaster, Jesus Christ and others, for ecumenism is its deepest truth: "Universality is its boast .... In its language citizens of every nation may converse; at its altars men of all religions may kneel; to its creed disciples of every faith may subscribe.., the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahmin, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer..." As the Greek bishops said in 1933: "Masonry seeks to embrace in itself gradually all mankind and ·.. promises to give moral perfection and knowledge of truth...lifting itself to the position of a kind of super-religion, looking on all religions (not excepting Christianity) as inferior to itself." This philosophy is identical to that of modern ecumenism, and it is precisely this idea which has been anathematized by traditional Orthodox jurisdiction, as being the gathering place of all heresy, all error, all idolatry. "Therefore," declare the Greek bishops:

"All who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Saviour which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values.... For Christianity alone is the religion which teaches absolute truth and fulfills the religious and moral needs of men .... We must not fall from the grace of Christ by becoming partakers of other mysteries. It is not lawful to belong at the same time to Christ and to march for redemption and moral perfection outside Him."

Even were it not for the pagan, syncretic ecumenical nature of Masonic dogmas, the religious rites of the Lodge make it impossible for a conscious and informed Orthodox Christian to participate in any slightest way. Orthodox means not only "right belief," but also "right worship" (pravoslavny is the Russian for "orthodox" and means, literally, "true praising"). Therefore, since right belief and right worship are virtually synonymous in Orthodoxy, it is never permissible for an Orthodox Christian to participate in non-Orthodox religious rites (and "Masonry is worship"--Pike, 219). When Orthodox Christians join a Masonic Lodge (or participate in the prayers and rites of other churches) they utterly compromise the purity of their witness, both theologically and liturgically. They betray the Faith as Judas betrayed Christ. They place Orthodoxy on the same level as non-Orthodox faiths, non Christian movements, and even the ancient pagan mystery religions--all of which Christ came in order to overthrow and destroy, not to somehow elevate to the same level of Truth !

 

[Simpleman25]

The very first sentence is incorrect from beginning to end. We don't offer any moral perfection. There is no such person on the planet.

The motto is not Masonic at all.

Don't even get me started on Pike.

 

[searn77]

The very first sentence is incorrect from beginning to end. We don't offer any moral perfection. There is no such person on the planet.

The motto is not Masonic at all.

Don't even get me started on Pike.

If you don't mind answering, here are some questions I have:

1) Just to be clear, are you saying there are no ecumenical activities that the Freemasons are involved in?

2) Is there a "Grand Architect" referenced in Freemason rituals?

3) Must all Freemasons believe in a Grand Architect?

4) Are there any rituals or prayers said in Freemason gatherings that reflect a religious bent?

5) Are there any references made to King Solomon or the temple in Jerusalem?

6) Also, I remember reading that historically, Freemasons required their members to be of the religion of their country. So if you were from England, you were required to be Anglican, if you were from Turkey, you were required to be Muslim, etc. I know this is no longer required, but did it used to be required?

 

[ArmyMatt]

it is one of the driving forces behind ecumenism. this idea that you can profess some generic God, add ritual, and somehow think that does not impact your spiritual life.

 

[Simpleman25]

it is one of the driving forces behind ecumenism. this idea that you can profess some generic God, add ritual, and somehow think that does not impact your spiritual life.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Freemasonry is not ecumenical at all. We do not support a one world religion at all.

If anything, one contributing factor to why the Orthodox church and the RCC came out against freemasonry was because we accept all faiths. No denomination being more important than the other. That angered both churches. We all know why as well.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If anything, one contributing factor to why the Orthodox church and the RCC came out against freemasonry was because we accept all faiths. No denomination being more important than the other.

and that is the problem, that is the bad side of ecumenism. the presupposition that all faiths are equal. if you are EO, you believe that your Church is THE Church, not just a Church.

 

[Simpleman25]

Searn77,


1. Exactly. Read the above response.

2. Yes there is. God created heaven & earth. Therefore he was also the architect.

3. Yes and no. They must believe in God. No atheist can become a mason.

4. Of course. We have the Bible open on the alter at all meetings. We begin and end all meetings with prayer.

5. Yes. King Solomon and the building of his temple by working masons are important to masonry.

6. Since I don't live in every country I can't say with 100% certainty one way or the other. I will say that in the US that is true.


Good questions.