Is forced vaccination related to the mark of the beast?

[The Righterzpen]

They are.

Some of my friends sent me a Q message.
It contained 99% truth, and 1% poison, which will kill you every time.
The message ended with a man as our savior, and a new age philosophy, and free energy for all.
It did not mention Jesus Christ.

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I've been following Q for a couple of years now. And yeah, I really wish they would take out the drug cartels, the pedophile human trafficking rings, the monetary corruption that steals our tax dollars (etc.).

And there are a lot of Q posts that talk about God and even quote Scripture.

And the "humanity save itself" aspect of the movement; I was like: Yeah, humanity can't do this without God, but it won't happen by us sitting back and wishing, watching and praying "someone" change things. We are part of the problem and as much as we are capable of being part of the solution, we can be part of the solution too.

And a lot of the stuff Q talks about; I know does happen. But what they won't tell you is "who" is really behind this. They will point the finger at the opponents who are the most convenient for them to be disposed of. But if you start digging into the cultural undercurrent. (Hint: look at the Talmud.) You'll see who the earthly players are that are driving this. I don't know if you've ever heard Baldwin's sermon "The Jew seeks a sign." and how that relates to the modern pentecostal movement; but there is a lot of very keen historical truth there!

So I still do follow Q drops because I do believe the Trump administration is behind it and it is a window into "the plan".

They "lost me" (as far as any real hopes that they will actually "drain the swamp") at the point Covid came along. There's too much funky politics involved for this virus to be just a fluke "natural" thing.

I was beginning to come to certain conclusions on "drain the swamp" really meaning "replace those swamp creatures over there with these swamp creatures over here" prior to the pandemic; from watching "Know More News" and the whole Trump / Cyrus coin, move the embassy to Jerusalem, acknowledge Jerusalem as the "eternal city of the Jews" (yada yada yada). I knew "that aint good" based on what I understand of Scripture and the whole dispensationalist narrative. But I was more in "let's see how this plays out" mode.

Yet how the administration handled the pandemic really sealed it for me. If "we have it all" and "patriots are in control" was really true; than the only conclusion you have to come to, is that they are part of the game. Which ultimately makes them all war criminals for (as it appears) they released this thing on humanity on purpose. They were way too caviler over a pandemic that they allegedly knew nothing about. So....... not good!

The next step in the agenda seems to be to take out the FED and .... the only thing that would really make any sense is to go back on the gold standard, but - we'll see what happens there too? It doesn't seem to me that the people holding the "monetary reigns" are going to want to give that up without something "better" in it for them.

The one thing about the Baldwin sermon that you did post; which I've been contemplating in my own head for some time, is what to do myself about the whole vaccine thing? I did call the school and "unenroll" my son because if we are "forced" to get a vaccine at some point; I'm going to do my best to be "as far back to the end of the line" as possible without being dragged off to a FEMA camp.

Now I'm not "anti-vaccine" per se but to throw this thing out there absent of phase 3 trials.... ehhhh; I'll pass on being first in line to get it. I might be able to "skirt" around it for a while; out of medical proof that I've actually already had Covid; but again, this is a wait and see thing.

My priority right now is how to be mentally prepared to deal with the "worst case scenario" should it come.

 

[claninja]

Yet! What if it is indeed true that something you say is "just a conspiracy theory" really isn't?

For example:
Here is the Pentagon on 9/11. Do you see an airplane (or airplane parts) anywhere in this photo?

Does it look to you like a large passenger airplane hit the side of this building?

This conspiracy theory that has been debunked. (9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking Pentagon Myths)

This conspiracy theory is also a slap in the face to victims and families of those who died.
Partial List of Victims Aboard American Airlines Flight 77

Another example:
Portions of the "official narrative" of WWII, don't fit the evidence either.

Start here:

What are you inferring here? That the holocaust wasn't real?

I suggest looking up the history of Tsarist Russia, the pale of settlement and congress poland, and the number of Jews that lived there from 1905-1920.

• Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern: The Golden Age Shtetl: A New History of Jewish Life in East Europe. 2014.
  
  
• Nora Levin: The Jews in the Soviet Union since 1917: Paradox of Survival. 1988.
  
  
• Henry Abramson, A Prayer for the Government: Ukrainians and Jews in Revolutionary Times, 1917–1920. 1999.
  
  
• Oleg Budnitskii: Russian Jews Between the Reds and the Whites, 1917-1920. 2012.
  
  
• Moshe Lewin: The Soviet Century.
  

 

[BABerean2]

This conspiracy theory that has been debunked.

Larry Silverstein made the decision to "pull" WTC7 on 9-11-01.

There were no firefighters in the building at that point in time.

Over 2,000 professional architects and engineers have not been able to explain how the building could have collapsed due to fire.
Many of them have stated the NIST version of the collapse is a work of fiction.

This past year the engineering department of the University of Alaska at Fairbanks came to the same conclusion.

If the building did collapse due to fire, it would be the only steel-frame building in the history of the world to ever collapse due to fire.

The Twin Towers were a 3D equivalent to the number 11.

The Twin Towers were originally designed to withstand the crash of a commercial airliner.

All of the above are undeniable facts, instead of a theory.


Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.



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[pescador]

This thread is ridiculous! Is this just a place to post false information such as conspiracy theories, beginning with the OP?

 

[claninja]

Corrie Ten Boom was told by pastors in China they should have told their congregations persecution was coming, instead of telling them they would escape it.

That is what I am attempting to do now.

Apparently, I am not doing a very good job.

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Nothing wrong with preaching or teaching that Christians should expect persecution from governments or civilians within in their lifetime. Jesus and apostles preached about it and faced it, and many, many Christians since then have faced it.

I would argue the focus on Christian persecution shouldn't necessarily based on false or mis information (conspiracy theories, escapism), but instead focus on how Christians overcome any form of persecution through Christ, when it does arrive.

 

[claninja]

Daniel 7:
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The angels interpretation of the passage, tells us there would be 4 beasts, which represent 4 kingdoms, but saints would received the kingdom and possess it forever.

Daniel 7:17-18 These four great beasts are four kingdoms who will arise from the earth. But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’

The NT declares that the saints were brought into the kingdom of the son and were receiving this very kingdom in the 1st century which would have been during the roman empire (the 4th kingdom)

Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe

Colossians 1:13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Luke 17:20-21 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you

Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand;e repent and believe in the gospel

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

The Little horn of Daniel 7 persecutes the saints and blasphemes God. This is paralleled in revelation 13

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High,and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,
and shall think to change the times and the law;and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

Revelation 13:5-7 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling,a that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.b And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation

I interpret this through Christ's words and the epistles:

Matthew 24:9-12 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold

1 thessalonians 2:14-15 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,f 15who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind

Acts 17:5-7 But the Jewsa were jealous, and taking some wicked men of the rabble, they formed a mob, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the crowd. 6And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brothers before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, 7and Jason has received them, and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus

When the little horn is destroyed, the saints possess the kingdom

Daniel 7:26-27 26But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away,
to be consumed and destroyed to the end.nd the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heavenshall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
and all dominions shall serve and obey him

When Jerusalem is destroyed, the saints possess the kingdom.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

So.... when did these things happen? When was the "great tribulation" (Do you actually know that? I know when the "great tribulation" was; I'm curious to know if you do.)

Destruction of Jerusalem 66-70ad

Mark 13:2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

mark 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be

Mark 13:30Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place

Maybe if you explained to us (whom you are so sure that we know nothing) what the proper interpretation of Scripture is; maybe you would change our minds?

I don't believe you know nothing, It's just hard to trust your interpretation due to:

1. your following of conspiracy theories, especially Qanon
2. you not using the gospels and epistles to interpret parabolic language.

 

[BABerean2]

I would argue the focus on Christian persecution shouldn't necessarily based on false or mis information (conspiracy theories, escapism), but instead focus on how Christians overcome any form of persecution through Christ, when it does arrive.

I would agree 100%.

Sometimes "escapism" occurs when we cannot face the evidence right in front of us.

If someone has to label facts as "theories", are we dealing with an altered reality?

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[The Righterzpen]

The NT declares that the saints were brought into the kingdom of the son and were receiving this very kingdom in the 1st century which would have been during the roman empire (the 4th kingdom)

Yet the Roman Empire was not "diverse from all kingdoms" and didn't "devour the whole earth". The Roman Empire was a political kingdom. The beast's empire spans political kingdoms and exists from "given date" to the end of time. (On account of the beast cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time.) So thus we know it can't be specifically Rome; seeing how Rome doesn't exist any more.

Now unless you want to claim to be full Preterist; you got a problem. (Christ hasn't returned yet.)

So what does this "beast kingdom" represent and when did it begin?

We know it was in existence at the point in time the book of Revelation was written. And we know it endures until Judgement Day. (Which we know at this point is a least 2000 years.) So..... what is it? What existed in the 1st century that has now resurfaced in the 20th century?

Where did this beast originate, seeing how it's already in existence at the point Revelation is written?

You have two possibilities here:
1. It is somehow connected to the Babylonian captivity.
2. Or it had its origins back in the day's of Moses; connected to when Scripture was first penned?

So now one's interoperation of this depends on when one thinks false Judaism had its first origin. (Evidence seems to point to Exodus.) Yet things such as "the abomination that causes desolate" appears to have originated with the Herodian dynasty; seeing how they are the family that had direct connection to the Messiah.

Personally, I think it could go back as far as Abraham if you believe Terah (Abraham's father) might have had a rudimentary contributor to books such as Genesis and Job? We know based on archeology that elements of Job, Genesis and the flood have roots in ancient Sumerian writing. So who was the author of that ancient Sumerian writing? We don't know. But we do know some "prototype" of Genesis, Job and the flood story existed in the time of Abraham; even though it wasn't codified until Moses.

So was this the origin of the false proclamation of a system that would eventually become the 4th kingdom of the beast; despite that the political reality (as it applied to Nebuchanazzar's dream) found its political fulfillment in Rome? Yet we understand (that because Rome no longer exists) and the kingdom of the 4th beast continues until Judgement Day that Rome itself was not the fulfillment of; but only a photo-type.

The next question becomes: what do we see "parallel wise" that existed in the 1st century that has resurfaced now?

The answer to that has to do with the political entity of Israel. (Yet it's not actually a "fulfillment of prophecy" but a "self fulfillment" of a particular narrative (namingly the dispensationalist narrative).

Which.... enter in Q-anon, Trump, Cyrus, the temple institute and all these connections to Zionism.

The real fulfillment has to do with the atonement and Christ in the first century; but this doesn't mean that certain elements are not creating a false narrative that they are trying to force into existence upon the current global stage. (Thus Trump and the whole "Cyrus coin" thing.)

When the little horn is destroyed, the saints possess the kingdom

The final fruition of that happened at the resurrection. Ephesians 1 explains that to us. (Christ is now in full possession of His kingdom.) Note that has nothing to do with the destruction of Jerusalem.

For as soon as the atonement was accomplished, the system of antiquated animal sacrifice was no longer valid. (That was actually true at the point the Messiah was born, seeing how He was the sacrifice.

Which... puts "the king that understand's dark sayings" in the historical realm of Herod the Great. Note that Daniel says "he was destroyed without hand"; noting that he was struck down by God, absent of military conquest. (Check your history - what happened to Herod the Great?)

When Jerusalem is destroyed, the saints possess the kingdom.

No, the saints possess the Kingdom at Pentecost.

Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

Which again happened at Pentecost. The destruction of the temple was only the end result there of.

Destruction of Jerusalem 66-70ad

Mark 13:2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

mark 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be

Mark 13:30Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place

Yet... how many of the 12 original apostles still were alive at the point Jerusalem was destroyed? (Historically we don't actually know that.)

Yet, Matthew 24 gives you a clue in the phrase "... days not be shortened; no flesh would be saved". When was "flesh saved". (Not at 70 AD!) The elect were secured at the atonement; so thus you'd have to come to the conclusion that "the great tribulation" was somehow connected to the atonement.

Thus why I asked you if you really understood when "the great tribulation" happened? (Apparently you don't; because it was not connected to the destruction of the temple.) The destruction of the temple was the manifestation to the reprobate Jew, that the Messiah had already come and established the atonement.

(And yes; all that happened within that generation that was contemporary to Christ!)

I don't believe you know nothing, It's just hard to trust your interpretation due to:

1. your following of conspiracy theories, especially Qanon
2. you not using the gospels and epistles to interpret parabolic language.

There is a difference between "fulfillment of prophecy" and "self fulfilling prophecy". Talmudic Judaism has labored overtime to "mar" the image of Christ as to be "unrecognizable" as He relates to that religions interpretation of the Messiah. Why do you think so many "Jews" don't believe? That wasn't an "accident". Scripture tells us that would happen.

Now as far a Q-anon and such like goes?

Do you really think a false representation of the Messiah is not going to try and project it's interoperation upon the rest of the world; especially as it comes closer and closer to the end?

I don't follow Q because I think it's truth; I follow Q because it offers some insight into the enemy's "battle plan".

And as this relates to Covid? I can almost "bank on" a "second wave" coming; so I prepare myself (both mentally and practically preparation wise) to face "what ever" comes down the pike. I don't know if this will go "as far south" as America ending up with a "China style" totalitarian government; (personally, I'm not inclined to think so based on the nature of the American psyche): but, certain aspects of the American culture, present their own set of delusions.

So.... "The prudent foresees the coming evil and hides himself..." As I've stated before; my goal (should it come to this) is to stay out of the FEMA camp!

(I hope you understand what that means!)

 

[Steve_K]

This conspiracy theory that has been debunked. (9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking Pentagon Myths)

When you have some time, please watch what many consider the definitive 9/11 documentary - September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor. It addresses all of the 'debunkers' arguments as well as the official 9/11 Commission Report and msm narrative.

I recommend starting with "The Hijackers" in Part 1 at 57:13 and watch through to the end. Please watch with an open mind and if you can address the questions posed in the documentary with rational, cogent arguments and/or evidence, please share them with us...

Part 1 - start at 57:13

Part 2

Part 3

 

[BABerean2]

I would argue the focus on Christian persecution shouldn't necessarily based on false or mis information (conspiracy theories, escapism)

What do the experts say about Building 7, which was not mentioned by the news media yesterday?

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[Beanieboy]

Oh brother. Read carefully:

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

People won't be "forced" to get the mark. They "receive" it. It is when they agreed to receive the mark in order to buy or sell. Buy or see what? Vaccine? NO! Do you even know what is the image of the beast that could "speak" and "cause" Christians who refuse to worship the "image" of the beast be killed, verse 15? Do you think this is talking about physical mark, or needles or physical killing here? Think again.

I agree. The Mark of the Beast shows alliance yo the antiChrist. It won't be a trick. You will know what you are doing.

I don't get why so many Christians have this death wish, to die for their religion, movies like Left Behind, when what Christ calls us to is to live for him by loving others.

 

[BABerean2]

Is there a relationship between 9-11, and COVID-19?

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[BABerean2]

"Seven"

New film to be released after the election on the collapse of WTC7, which is the only steel frame building in the history of the world to ever collapse due to fire, based on the official story.

The film features the work of a structural engineer who is a professor at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.

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[claninja]

Larry Silverstein made the decision to "pull" WTC7 on 9-11-01.

There were no firefighters in the building at that point in time.

this was clarified that he was talking about firefighters and emergency responders, which were pulled from the surrounding areas due to safety concerns of the building.

Over 2,000 professional architects and engineers have not been able to explain how the building could have collapsed due to fire.
Many of them have stated the NIST version of the collapse is a work of fiction.

Nor have they been able to explain who, why, or when explosives were planted. They also have been unable to explain how no seismic activity of a demolition’s Explosion was recorded in that area.

This past year the engineering department of the University of Alaska at Fairbanks came to the same conclusion.

which was funded by architects And engineers for 9/11 truth.

If the building did collapse due to fire, it would be the only steel-frame building in the history of the world to ever collapse due to fire.

not necessarily true.

Plasco
high rise in sao Palo
Windsor tower in Madrid.

If someone has to label facts as "theories", are we dealing with an altered reality?

I also question what reality people live when they label conspiracy theories as facts.

 

[BABerean2]

I also question what reality people live when they label conspiracy theories as facts.

Show an unbiased witness who has seen buildings demolished with explosives the videos of the collapse of WTC7, and you will have your reality whether you like it or not.

I understand why you do not want to believe it.
It is the same reaction a man has when the doctor tells him his wife has cancer.
Nobody wants to believe his nation has cancer.

.

 

[BABerean2]

A new kind of vaccine, which injects genetic material (RNA) into the body?

Mod e RNA ( Is the name of the company.) Moderna

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[claninja]

No, the saints possess the Kingdom at Pentecost.

Which again happened at Pentecost. The destruction of the temple was only the end result there of.

And at the resurrection according to the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25.

And when the kingdom is taken from the wicked tenants when the vineyard owner came to destroy them in Matthew 21.

Yet the Roman Empire was not "diverse from all kingdoms" and didn't "devour the whole earth". The Roman Empire was a political kingdom. The beast's empire spans political kingdoms and exists from "given date" to the end of time. (On account of the beast cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time.) So thus we know it can't be specifically Rome; seeing how Rome doesn't exist any more.

Now unless you want to claim to be full Preterist; you got a problem. (Christ hasn't returned yet.)

So what does this "beast kingdom" represent and when did it begin?

We know it was in existence at the point in time the book of Revelation was written. And we know it endures until Judgement Day. (Which we know at this point is a least 2000 years.) So..... what is it? What existed in the 1st century that has now resurfaced in the 20th century?

Where did this beast originate, seeing how it's already in existence at the point Revelation is written?

You have two possibilities here:
1. It is somehow connected to the Babylonian captivity.
2. Or it had its origins back in the day's of Moses; connected to when Scripture was first penned?

So now one's interoperation of this depends on when one thinks false Judaism had its first origin. (Evidence seems to point to Exodus.) Yet things such as "the abomination that causes desolate" appears to have originated with the Herodian dynasty; seeing how they are the family that had direct connection to the Messiah.

Personally, I think it could go back as far as Abraham if you believe Terah (Abraham's father) might have had a rudimentary contributor to books such as Genesis and Job? We know based on archeology that elements of Job, Genesis and the flood have roots in ancient Sumerian writing. So who was the author of that ancient Sumerian writing? We don't know. But we do know some "prototype" of Genesis, Job and the flood story existed in the time of Abraham; even though it wasn't codified until Moses.

So was this the origin of the false proclamation of a system that would eventually become the 4th kingdom of the beast; despite that the political reality (as it applied to Nebuchanazzar's dream) found its political fulfillment in Rome? Yet we understand (that because Rome no longer exists) and the kingdom of the 4th beast continues until Judgement Day that Rome itself was not the fulfillment of; but only a photo-type.

The next question becomes: what do we see "parallel wise" that existed in the 1st century that has resurfaced now?

The answer to that has to do with the political entity of Israel. (Yet it's not actually a "fulfillment of prophecy" but a "self fulfillment" of a particular narrative (namingly the dispensationalist narrative).

Which.... enter in Q-anon, Trump, Cyrus, the temple institute and all these connections to Zionism.

The real fulfillment has to do with the atonement and Christ in the first century; but this doesn't mean that certain elements are not creating a false narrative that they are trying to force into existence upon the current global stage. (Thus Trump and the whole "Cyrus coin" thing.)

In Daniel 2, the head of Gold (Babylon) and the mid and thighs Of bronze (Greece) are said to rule over all creation and all of earth. In 2 Chonicles 36, it states that Cyrus (Persia) has been given all the kingdoms of the earth. So I interpret the 4th beast of Daniel 7’s “devouring the whole earth” in the same manner, and would disagree with your assertion.

as we know From Daniel 7:18, there would be 4 earthly kingdoms, but the saints would possess the kingdom forever. When interpreted even more by the angel, it is when the dominion of the little horn, from the 4th kingdom, is taken away, that the saints possess the kingdom. As the New Testament declares that Christ established the Kingdom at his 1st advent, and that the saints are translated into this kingdom, starting in the 1st century, It can be confirmed that the 4th beast of Daniel 7 is Rome.

I would argue the Beast of revelation isn’t necessarily only Rome, but a consolidation of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome, culminating in the little horn which Rises during the 4th empire (Rome). When added up, the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 have the same number of heads and horns as the beast of revelation. Both the beast of revelation and the little horn blaspheme God and persecute the saints for a time, times, and half a time (42 months). The beast itself is an eighth, while the little horn becomes the 8th after plucking up 3 horns.

I would argue that the harlot Of revelation 17 is 1st century Jerusalem This is the evidenced via the title given her as the great city. Revelation 11 defines the great city as Jerusalem. Revelation 18 declares she is responsible for all the righteous blood shed, which corresponds to Jesus declaring The generation of Jerusalem in front of him as responsible for all the righteous blood shed in Matthew 23. When the harlot is destroyed by the beast and it’s 10 horns, the wedding feast is ready (revelation 19). This parallels the parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22, which has The wedding feast gathering the good and bad into the hall after the armies burn the city of Jerusalem.

Thus I would argue the beast of revelation is related to those responsible for the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem (Rome, zealots, imudeans)

 

[claninja]

Yet, Matthew 24 gives you a clue in the phrase "... days not be shortened; no flesh would be saved". When was "flesh saved". (Not at 70 AD!) The elect were secured at the atonement; so thus you'd have to come to the conclusion that "the great tribulation" was somehow connected to the atonement.

Thus why I asked you if you really understood when "the great tribulation" happened? (Apparently you don't; because it was not connected to the destruction of the temple.) The destruction of the temple was the manifestation to the reprobate Jew, that the Messiah had already come and established the atonement.

(And yes; all that happened within that generation that was contemporary to Christ!)

Jesus declares the great tribulation in association with the destruction of the temple in the Olivet discourse. So I disagree, especially considering he does not tie the great tribulation to any other event.

 

[claninja]

Show an unbiased witness who has seen buildings demolished with explosives the videos of the collapse of WTC7, and you will have your reality whether you like it or not

I’m sure demolitions can occur in the very same way the twin towers fell.

However, other steel structures have collapsed in similar fashion (plasco, high rise in sao palo, the Windsor in Madrid) due to fire and inadequate concrete support.

I understand why you do not want to believe it.
It is the same reaction a man has when the doctor tells him his wife has cancer.
Nobody wants to believe his nation has cancer.

I don’t want to believe this nation has sin? That’s quite the leap there Bab. So because I don’t believe the same conspiracy theories as you, then I must not believe there is sin in this nation?

 

[BABerean2]

I’m sure demolitions can occur in the very same way the twin towers fell.

However, other steel structures have collapsed in similar fashion (plasco, high rise in sao palo, the Windsor in Madrid) due to fire and inadequate concrete support.




I don’t want to believe this nation has sin? That’s quite the leap there Bab. So because I don’t believe the same conspiracy theories as you, then I must not believe there is sin in this nation?

No one can deny there was a "conspiracy" to destroy buildings in the World Trade Center complex on 9-11-01.

Some believe it was a conspiracy plot conceived by Osama Bin Laden and 19 Arab highjackers.
Others believe it was another group of conspirators.

If you want to believe the version found below, you have many who would agree with you.

.