Is forced vaccination related to the mark of the beast?

[Freedm]

No. The mark of the beast is not vaccine, national patriotism, tattoo, chip, smartphone, etc. that is forced upon people in a certain country or the world. Rather it is a spiritual mark that reflects your will (right hand) and mind (forehead) that acts against God and His Word within in His congregation all over the world. It is a judgment of God upon the unfaithful congregation.

I tend to agree with this, in light of the mark of God and in light of James 4:4, but how do you explain not being able to buy or sell without the mark?

 

[Freedm]

such as the German swastika that was seen in WWII for instance?

Biblically it is entirely probable that such a mark of satan would indeed be literal.

The mark of God in the OT( circumcision) is literal, as is the mark of God in the NT, that we know as water baptism.

Neither circumcision, nor water baptism, are the mark of God. The truth, aka the word of God, is the mark of God.

Deuteronomy 11
You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

 

[Timtofly]

Either the Apostle Paul is confused below, or you are confused.


1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

And yet you keep bringing them up...

 

[BABerean2]

And yet you keep bringing them up...

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in
Galatians 3:16.


Paul explains those that follow in Titus 3:9.


.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I don't believe at this time, the mark of the beast is imminent, though things could change quickly. The reason I say this is because the Bible clearly states that "the whole world will wonder after the beast" and "all inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast". That does not describe today, so I'm not too concerned about any potential vaccines for rona.

What if the beast was the anti-God, anti-Christian world kingdom or system that has been in place since the beginning of time with the dragon, Satan, being its god (he is the god of this world - 1 Cor 4:4). Or whatever you want to call "the world" as the term is used by Jesus here:

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’" If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

Replace "the world" in this passage with "the beast" and then think about how the beast is described in Revelation and let me know if you see any difference.

Revelation 13:8 says that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast. I take that literally to mean all whose names are not written in the book of life from all time worship the beast and they take its mark which I see to be the spiritual opposite of the seal of God or seal of the Spirit.

Revelation 7:2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.

Revelation 9:3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

I believe all people either have the figurative seal of God or the figurative mark of the beast signifying who each person belongs to.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I tend to agree with this, in light of the mark of God and in light of James 4:4, but how do you explain not being able to buy or sell without the mark?

Just as the mark or seal of God and the mark of the beast are figurative, so is the idea of not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. The concept of buying or selling is used figuratively in other parts of scripture. Here are a few examples:

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth and do not sell it—wisdom, instruction and insight as well.

Matthew 25:8 Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ 9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

Revelation 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

The mark of the beast figuratively marks someone as belonging to the world (John 15:19). Christians do not belong to the world and are not "of the world" (John 17:16). So, in order to buy (accept and adopt the anti-Christ ways of the world) or sell (influence others to accept the ways of the world) someone has to have the mark of the beast signifying that they belong to the world and are of the world. The second beast or false prophet (representing all of the false religions and philosophies of the world) works to prevent those who do not have the mark of the beast from buying (accepting the gospel) or selling (preaching the gospel).

 

[DavidPT]

Revelation 13:8 says that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast. I take that literally to mean all whose names are not written in the book of life from all time worship the beast and they take its mark which I see to be the spiritual opposite of the seal of God or seal of the Spirit.

And not because I'm Premil, I'm not seeing the logic in some of this. According to Revelation 13, the false prophet plays a major role in these things. And also according to Revelation 13 this is meaning when the beast ascends out of the pit, where one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed. That's what this mark is related to. What does the false prophet, and him causing all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, possibly have to do with thousands of years ago? Was the false prophet already around thousands of years ago already causing all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads? Look at what verse 17 says.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


Imagine if you were living in a time before John even had these visions, how could anyone possibly know one way or the other about this mark, that unless they had it, they can't buy or sell? I don't recall reading anything about that prior to that verse in Revelation 13 anywhere else in the Bible. To me then, this is not being applied to all time since the beginning of creation, this is being applied to the time when the beast ascends out of the pit, and this only affects those living during this particular time, and not also someone who lived prior to this time.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

And not because I'm Premil, I'm not seeing the logic in some of this. According to Revelation 13, the false prophet plays a major role in these things. And also according to Revelation 13 this is meaning when the beast ascends out of the pit, where one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed. That's what this mark is related to. What does the false prophet, and him causing all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, possibly have to do with thousands of years ago? Was the false prophet already around thousands of years ago already causing all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads? Look at what verse 17 says.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Imagine if you were living in a time before John even had these visions, how could anyone possibly know one way or the other about this mark, that unless they had it, they can't buy or sell? I don't recall reading anything about that prior to that verse in Revelation 13 anywhere else in the Bible. To me then, this is not being applied to all time since the beginning of creation, this is being applied to the time when the beast ascends out of the pit, and this only affects those living during this particular time, and not also someone who lived prior to this time.

I don't know what I can add to what I already said in posts #465 and 466. You are a futurist. As long as that is the case you will never understand my interpretation of these things.

I already have told you before that the beast coming out of the sea does not have to correlate with the beast ascending out of the pit. If the beast coming out of the sea equates to the beast coming out of the pit then why didn't it just say that he saw the beast coming out of the pit? It seems to me that the sea is something different than the pit.

I did think of one other thing. If you look at Revelation 12, you can see a description of Satan and his angels being kicked out of heaven when Jesus ascended to heaven (Rev 12:5-9). After being kicked out of heaven Satan then went to "wage war against...those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus".

So, I believe the timing of Rev 13:1 coincides with the timing of Satan and his angels being kicked out of heaven. Satan, in his desire to make war with the church, then gives authority to the beast to do that.

Rev 13:7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

To me, the above verse is parallel to this:

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

And, again, I believe the time when the dragon, Satan, went to make war with the church was right after he was kicked out of heaven which occurred upon Christ's ascension to heaven. So, the beast coming out of the sea is not equivalent to the beast coming out of the pit as you believe.

Remember, Satan being in the pit has to do with his ability to "deceive the nations" (in my view, his ability to stop the spread of the gospel), not with his ability to persecute the church. Since Satan does his work through the beast, it makes sense to me that when the beast is in the pit, the dragon (Satan) must be in the pit at the same time.

 

[fwGod]

Maybe I would expect another Christian to accept the fact that they have been taught a doctrine which is less than 200 years old, because that is what happened to me.

That was your choice to accept that an article with false information is right. But that in no way obligates me to acquiesce to it.

I was once a deacon in a conservative Bible church, which taught the doctrine during Sunday School.

However it didn't assist you at all to correctly discern what the Bible said concerning this issue that we are discussing. I have read my Bible and have been taught by the Holy Spirit who taught the apostles that resulted in the correct theologies within the epistles.

When I could not get the doctrine to agree with my Bible,

The doctrine springs forth from the Bible. The doctrine is in hermeneutical agreement with the Bible.

If you couldn't see the agreement, then you must of been using eisogesis.. leaning to your own understanding to try and figure out how all the pieces of the puzzle fit into one large portrait.

I started looking at the old commentaries.
I was shocked to discover John Nelson Darby brought the doctrine to the U.S. about the time of the Civil War.

If you are familiar with Church history of the Church of Rome vs the Pilgrims and Darby and others being persecuted, and martyred by the Catholics then you shouldn't be shocked.

The hostility began with Martin Luther, and continued on in Britain during the successive royalties and what branch of Christianity they held to.

The Protestant Pilgrims were in America and eventually the Catholics came over bringing their different theologies with them. The Catholics settled to the South and used verses to allow slavery.

While the Protestants settled in the North using verses to forbid slavery. It's obvious then that Darby would be preaching a renewal of what the early fathers believed before the Church had gotten away from what they(early fathers) taught which came from the apostles.

Later it was incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and spread like a virus through the evangelical Church in America. These are historical facts, not denied by Bible historians.

Not denied by dispensational teachers either.

However, you used the metaphor, "spreading like a virus" as if it should be avoided like the plague.

The historical Church in America facts are that since the days of the Pilgrims, it has been Protestant and therefore opposing the Church of Rome which is Catholic.. from which the Jesuit priest ribera teachings came from.

The claim is made that a Jesuit named Francisco Ribera "invented" Futurism around 1590 AD in an effort to provide cover for Rome and deflect the belief that the Pope is the Antichrist. BUT this is a LIE against Dispensationalism. (quote from video- Lies against Dispensationalism: did Jesuit Francisco Ribera invent futurism?)

A commenter supplied this

"In order to remove the papacy of the Catholic Church from consideration as the Antichrist (as an act of countering the Protestant Reformation), Ribera began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, proposing that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse apply to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3½ literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy because of the Reformation cry stating that "the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." (Martin Luther, Aug. 18, 1520). Then, he proposed, the Antichrist, a single individual, would: Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God. Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. Abolish the Christian religion. Deny Jesus Christ. Be received by the Jews. Pretend to be God. Kill the two witnesses of God. Conquer the world. To accomplish this, Ribera proposed that the 1260 days and 42 months and 3½ times of prophecy were not 1260 years as based on the year-day principle (Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6), but a literal 3½ years, hence preventing the arrival of the deduction of (i) the 1260 years to be related to the Dark Ages (according to the Historicism (Christianity) interpretation of eschatology from 538 A.D. when the papal power was fully established in Rome until its political blow in 1798 A.D., when Louis-Alexandre Berthier the general of Napoleon captured pope Pius VI as prisoner to Valence, France) and (ii) the Antichrist to be related to papacy.​

The greatest error of the doctrine is the claim that God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary.

Only by stating it that way can it seem to be true.

However, it is only according to your erroneous teachings which do not acknowledge the ages and therefore teach that all of the promises of God to Israel have been fulfilled now.

However, history going back to 70AD and current events prove that to be wrong.

(an acception is mentioned further below)

So the dispensational theology is accurate.

This claim is found in black and white in the video I produced for YouTube titled "Genesis of Dispensational Theology".

It's merely a claim from that person who'd been erroneously taught that or falsely concluded it on their own. There is no truth in it.

I can say that because you apparently use it as your proofs to discuss with me but you've so far not made any headway.

Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

History proves that during the church age has been the blossoming of the fig tree which relates to the rebirth of the nation of Israel and it's repossessing the land God gave to the Jewish people. The coming down of the Berlin Wall in Nov.9 1989 was a part of that fulfillment.

That in no way contradicts the dispensational teachings. They/we celebrate them as prophetic fulfillment stepping stones to the next upcoming event which is the rapture of the church, followed by the lawless one who according to Daniel will make a covenant with many for one week. Prophetically that is the future dispensational event, the seven year Tribulation.

The disciples asked Jesus, in line with their theology, when he would be coming back at the end of the age. That age is His Second Coming at which time will bring the next age which is The Messianic Millennium.

Those events are covered in the book of Revelation.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.

“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.

Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.

What you failed to copy from his thesis

Dispensationalism by LEWIS SPERRY CHAFER 1871-1952. Founder/President of Dallas Theological Seminary, Dallas, Texas; Professor of Systematic Biblical Theology; Editor, Bibliotheca Sacra.​

is this..

It is not intended by it to imply that those who hold what are here set forth as dispensational beliefs are abnormal or disproportionate in doctrine. This thesis purports to demonstrate that so-called dispensationalists find the specific meaning of the Scriptures which God intended to impart and are therefore, by the most exacting proofs, found to be both reasonable and normal in their interpretations.

The thesis is the second reprint of an article published in Bibliotheca Sacra (XCIII, 390-449.)
(Copyrighted), 1951, by LEWIS SPERRY CHAFER.
​

The article acknowledges the various ages. And acknowledges the controversy with many theologians vs the Church of Rome.

The word dispensation is Latin in its origin, being derived from dispensation -- economical management or superintendence -- and has its equivalent in the Greek _oikonomia, meaning, in this specific usage, 'stewardship' or 'economy' as to special features of divine government in the various ages. To quote the Century Dictionary bearing on the theological import of the word: "(a) The method or scheme by which God has at different times developed his purpose, and revealed himself to man; or the body of privileges bestowed, and duties and responsibilities enjoined, in connection with that scheme or method of revelation: as the Old or Jewish dispensation; the New Gospel dispensation. (b) A period marked by a particular development of the divine purpose and revelation: as the patriarchal dispensation (lasting from Adam to Moses); the Mosaic dispensation (from Moses to Christ); the Christian dispensation." ​

The Century Dictionary also quotes one pertinent sentence from Bibliotheca Sacra of sixty-two years ago: "The limits of certain dispensational periods were revealed in Scripture" (XLV, 237). ​

In the light of this material, the definition advanced by the late Dr. C.I. Scofield (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 5), namely, "A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God," is hardly entitled to the criticism which is aimed against it.
DISPENSATIONALISM by Lewis Sperry Chafer​

John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

There is nothing of what he said that violates the scriptures.

The comments above from the professors at Dallas Theological Seminary fall apart below.

They don't fall apart but your welcome to provide your erroneous try.

How many peoples of God are found in the verse below?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That indicates that there are the Jewish believers and there are the Gentile believers.
The problem is that it hasn't been fulfilled as yet.. or else you've been living under a rock.

Concerning the current disunity of the Jews & the Gentiles, here is an excerpt from John Darby's "The apostasy of the successive dispensations"..

Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they.​

You have yet to use scripture to prove how any of them make the dispensational theology fall apart.

You posted:
Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson:

Like I said before I could post videos that teach dispensational theology.. is this thread going to turn into the battle of the videos?

That would not be the way to conduct a debate between you and me.

 

[Freedm]

What if the beast was the anti-God, anti-Christian world kingdom or system that has been in place since the beginning of time with the dragon, Satan, being its god (he is the god of this world - 1 Cor 4:4).

That is almost exactly what I believe the beast is. Glad to see I'm not the only one. The beast could also be more specifically deception, ignorance, or more broadly a system such as communism which aims to destroy faith of any kind.

Regardless, I don't see the whole world yet following or being subject to such a system, whether it be deception, ignorance or oppression.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

That is almost exactly what I believe the beast is. Glad to see I'm not the only one. The beast could also be more specifically deception, ignorance, or more broadly a system such as communism which aims to destroy faith of any kind.

Regardless, I don't see the whole world yet following or being subject to such a system, whether it be deception, ignorance or oppression.

Glad to see we're thinking similarly. Whatever it is, it has to be something that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship (Rev 13:8) and we're in agreement on that. I guess where we differ is that I believe that people have been worshiping the beast for a long time already.

As I indicated before, I equate the beast with "the world" that hates believers and loves its own, as Jesus talked about in John 15:18-21. We, as Christians, are not of the world (John 17:16) while all unbelievers are of the world. If you think of the beast in that sense then it fits that all whose names are not written in the book of life (all unbelievers) worship the beast.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How many peoples of God are found in the verse below?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That indicates that there are the Jewish believers and there are the Gentile believers.
The problem is that it hasn't been fulfilled as yet.. or else you've been living under a rock.

This passage says otherwise:

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Don't try to separate what God has already joined together as one.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Timtofly]

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in
Galatians 3:16.

Paul explains those that follow in Titus 3:9.

And yet some elusive point exist or not? There is two different genealogies and yet stating them is practically useless, because you keep saying, yea, nay, nay, but maybe yea.....

God knows and God does, and we humans either watch or burry our head in the sand of wishful human theology.

 

[Timtofly]

What if the beast was the anti-God, anti-Christian world kingdom or system that has been in place since the beginning of time with the dragon, Satan, being its god (he is the god of this world - 1 Cor 4:4). Or whatever you want to call "the world" as the term is used by Jesus here:

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’" If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

Replace "the world" in this passage with "the beast" and then think about how the beast is described in Revelation and let me know if you see any difference.

Revelation 13:8 says that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast. I take that literally to mean all whose names are not written in the book of life from all time worship the beast and they take its mark which I see to be the spiritual opposite of the seal of God or seal of the Spirit.

Revelation 7:2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.

Revelation 9:3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

I believe all people either have the figurative seal of God or the figurative mark of the beast signifying who each person belongs to.

Are you Calvinist, thus think only a percentage of humanity can and has been saved, and the rest are just casualties along the way. No human choice whatsoever? Fate is our master, we bow to karma, etc etc?

The Lamb's book of life is sealed with 7 seals from before creation. It is not unsealed yet. It has not been added to or taken away from, because it is sealed. Are you saying God only loved those in the book of life and only died for those in the book of life? If your name is not there, there is no way in sheol, you can loose salvation. Your name was never there to begin with. What do you think you can do to convince God to put your name in the book of life? He died on the Cross. Do you think He will let you do the same, so you can add your own name?

Can you explain to me, if God did allow you to write your own name in and let you erase your own name, why is the Lamb the only being worthy to open the book? Now some deny that the book being unsealed is the Lamb's book of life. Why is this book wrapped up in the fact the Lamb and only His blood, the Atonement, is part of the condition to even open the book. Why is it so hard to accept that Jesus and the Atonement was for every name ever given to a Descendant of Adam? It was by Adam that sin and every human came into the world. It is by Jesus Christ that all be ransomed from that sin and the penalty of death. Either you accept that point or you reject that point.

And the only alternative is you work to accomplish your own salvation. Your own salvation is the mark. God says sure, do your own thing. It will land you in the lake of fire, but hey, you did everything yourself to get there. God did nothing to stand in your way. It was your right and your destiny as a Descendant of Adam to die and go to sheol. God did stand in the way of the whole world going to hell. God placed every name of every descendant of Adam in the Lamb's book of life. Yes you can loose salvation if you trade God for His Atonement, and tell God you will handle it yourself. Titus 3:5 says it all:

5 Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of the new birth, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Revelation clearly points out the 7th Trumpet is the end of Adam's punishment. It is the end of sin and death. The church has been taken away in the seals, and completed before the book has even been opened and names are revealed. That is why those in Christ remain in Christ. The church cannot ever be added to after the 6th seal. Now "eternal life" is only with an incorruptible body. This is not plan B for the church and the ONLY REASON amill hate the Lord's Day and Millennium. They go out of their way to claim God does not populate the earth God’s way. They claim their way is the only interpretation. God does not go by Amil theology, because John put Revelation 20 in for a reason. It is there and nothing can remove it.

The only reason why there is a mark or curse placed on Adam's descendants is for one reason only. They want to work out their own salvation, period! They are not part of the church. They are not chosen by God as sheep or harvested as wheat. They fell through the cracks and rejected the Atonement outright. Now they gladly follow Satan on his march straight to the lake of fire. It is also the declared end to Adam's punishment of sin and death by sin. Sin will be eradicated and no longer existent after the battle of Armageddon. All corruptible bodies destroyed. Since God ended Adam's time of judgment passed on to all his offspring, God is not going to resurrect that whole mess again. Why do humans teach that false theology? Why do humans deny God His God appointed right to populate His own creation? Why do Amil reject God’s plan of redemption so thoroughly? Do they really think they can stop people from reading Revelation 20 and be led of the Holy Spirit to the truth, outside of any human theology and private interpretation? Does the Holy Spirit tell people to go read many books on human theology and then get back with Him to compare notes, and call for a popular vote on the issue?

 

[BABerean2]

Pastor Sam Adams speaks about the "Warp Speed" vaccine.

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[Spiritual Jew]

Are you Calvinist, thus think only a percentage of humanity can and has been saved, and the rest are just casualties along the way. No human choice whatsoever? Fate is our master, we bow to karma, etc etc?

No, I am not a Calvinist at all. For you to think that from anything I've said shows that you have no understanding of what I'm actually saying.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I am not a Calvinist at all. For you to think that from anything I've said shows that you have no understanding of what I'm actually saying.

I know Calvinist do not accept some points of loosing Salvation as you do. The way you have portrayed your view seems to indicate you are the master of your own fate, not God. Calvinist will deny they are fatist. But either fate coerces or God coerces one to be saved in their view. If it is not God, then fate is the only other phenomenon that can cause one to loose one's Salvation. You have yet to explain how one can loose something that is not theirs to begin with. It is God's Atonement, not yours. God already voted for everyone and put them in the Lamb's book of life. It is your choice to, in effect, take your name out, and that is not loosing Salvation, that is outright rejection of God's Atonement.

Since you choose not to explain yourself I guess it is private, and still wrong, but private. No I cannot read your mind. Saying I do not understand is rather obvious, no?

The bottom line is you cannot put your name in the book of life and you cannot take it out by accident. Being born again, or accepting something or trusting something, whatever people call the alleged salvation experience is not you putting your name in the book of life.

One can only trust God and His Atonement. Faith is trust, not belief. Our state of mind cannot determine a conscious choice to reject God, any more than humanity realizes legal documents cannot be binding unless the mind is in a perfect state to make such decisions. God is no different in that regard. We can deceive ourselves, but we can never deceive God.

 

[Freedm]

Glad to see we're thinking similarly. Whatever it is, it has to be something that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship (Rev 13:8) and we're in agreement on that. I guess where we differ is that I believe that people have been worshiping the beast for a long time already.

As I indicated before, I equate the beast with "the world" that hates believers and loves its own, as Jesus talked about in John 15:18-21. We, as Christians, are not of the world (John 17:16) while all unbelievers are of the world. If you think of the beast in that sense then it fits that all whose names are not written in the book of life (all unbelievers) worship the beast.

Good point.