Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

Jim Langston said:
So, let's rephrase that, shall we?

If someone is saved they will not live in sin.

If someone is living in sin they are not saved.

If we are to be saved we can not continue to live in sin.

Do you disagree with any of those because that is the question you keep saying "no" to. You are saying the same thing I am, yet you refuse to acknowledge it and that's the thing tbat gives the world the wrong message about salvation.

You are saying if we are saved we will not conrinue to live in sin. Rephrased again, if we are saved we will follow the ten commanments. I already hear you saying "no" but once you admit that is your true belief because that's what the bible teaches you should be able to answer the question of this thread in the afirmative.

No sir. Again, you are parsing words to make them say what you want them to say.
You keep coming back to "if we are saved we will follow the ten commanments."

It is not about what we will do or can do, but what we can not do my friend.

Jim.......no one can keep the commandments!!! I keep saying it but you do not seem able to understand what I am saying to you. Do you not realize that absolutely not one single person has ever been saved by keeping the law?????
The law did not save and was not given to save man. That being the case, why would you think that we have to keep it in order to be saved?????

Romans 8:3.........
"For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh".

God gave the Law to reveal His standard of absolute righteousness to convict us all of our true guilt before Him, so that we would see our need for the gospel.

God in Christ did for us what we could not do.

Again.......Should we try to keep the commandments? YES-YES-YES!!

But keeping them does not save us neither does it keep us saved. It show us how guility we are.

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

Ken Rank said:
I think you better go back and read some of my older posts. All I said was, "under the law" does not mean how most use it. Yeshua said, "if you love me keep my commandment." James said, "faith without works is dead," and John said, "this is the love of God that we keep His commandments." We are saved by grace but the saved obey/work or their faith is not faith.

Works is a product of salvation not a means to it. We do good works because we are saved and not to be or stay saved Ken.

tatteredsoul · Sep 29, 2016

Ken Rank said:
I am leery addressing this because it is such an emotional topic for many. If for some reason we can't have a reasonable discussion, I will just back out.

There are two words in Greek that are translated as new. The first is nehos, the second is kainos. The word nehos means "new in regards to age," so nehos would be something that is brand new. The word kainos means "new in regards to freshness," so this word leans toward the idea of being "renewed." In "every" case but once, if you see the words, "new covenant," it is kainos not nehos. So the Greek is suggesting a renewed covenant, not a new one.

We need a second witness... and we have one. Hebrews 8:8-11 is quoted directly from Jer. 31:31-34 and it is there that we read of a "new covenant." At least, in English. In the Greek it is of course a kainos covenant. In the Hebrew, in Jeremiah, the word is chadashah. That is the verb kodesh which means "to renew" being used as an adjective. So, in the Hebrew it is also, "renewed covenant."

So what is NEW... what is passing away? The covenant God called "everlasting" (Psalm 105:8-10) that is said to be "renewed" in two different biblical languages? No.... what is passing away and what is "BETTER" is the placement of the LAW. Ezekiel 11:19, Jer. 31:34... and a few other places speak of the Law being taken from STONE and being written directly on the HEART. So God is renewing His everlasting covenant and in the process taking that which was on stone and writing it Himself on our minds and hearts directly as part of the perfection process.

The old (stone) is passing away and a better way (law on the heart) is coming. The commandments are neither bondage nor antiquated... "Do not steal" and "love your parents" are still for today. It is the stone along with sin and death... that will pass... and life and the instructions of God inside us forever that is the better way.

Well, if I understand THIS post correctly, we dont disagree at all.

Ken Rank · Sep 29, 2016

Major1 said:
Works is a product of salvation not a means to it. We do good works because we are saved and not to be or stay saved Ken.

Yes, I have stated that a number of times in this thread and the one on OSAS. We are saved by grace, but the save obey/work.

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

tatteredsoul said:
As per the OP, there is NOTHING in the bible said by Christ, or God that says any of us who claim to be Children of God - gentile or Hebrew - can opt out, or neglect to follow any laws of God. Nothing.

Does that mean you can't sin in order to be a child of God? Yes, and no. No one can be of God, and be of sin. Clearly. Yet, Christ allowed for us to be under "grace" so that IF we do sin, it no longer has the power to condemn us to hell.

But, to say you can break the 10 commandments and still call yourself a child of God is categorically incorrect. Both Christ and God make this very clear.

Any bloke can claim to be Christian. So, what is the difference between those who claim to be, and those who are actually accepted by Him?

Why would God want you to continue calling yourself a child of God with the mentality that you can break any of His laws when He says they are founded forever?

I have been seeing this confused topic a lot lately, and it is actually quite frightening so many believe they can reap all the benefits of heaven without any of the work.

I would same that I tend to agree with you however it must be considered that the phrase....."KNOWN SIN" has to be considered.

God says thou shalt not commit adultery. The man who gets saved then stops fooling around immediately. If he says he is a Christian and continues to commit that sin, then I would say that he was not saved at all hence his KNOWN SIN.

The same would apply to murder. Would the person who commits murder and then claim to be a Christian keep on murdering people???? God forbid!

Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery..."Go and sin no more" or better said....."Stop committing this sin of adultery".

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

Ken Rank said:
We still might yet (disagree). Here was my first post... Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

IF we do, it will be the 1st time that has happened to me.

Jim Langston · Sep 29, 2016

If I am understanding the discussion it seems everyone agrees that someone who is saved will not continue to live in sin.

Does anyone not agree with that?

It seems people only have trouble with the word "required" because our works do not save us.

Jim Langston · Sep 29, 2016

Major1 said:
Again.......Should we try to keep the commandments? YES-YES-YES!!

Let me ask you, why should we try to keep the commandments?

tatteredsoul · Sep 29, 2016

Major1 said:
I would same that I tend to agree with you however it must be considered that the phrase....."KNOWN SIN" has to be considered.

God says thou shalt not commit adultery. The man who gets saved then stops fooling around immediately. If he says he is a Christian and continues to commit that sin, then I would say that he was not saved at all hence his KNOWN SIN.

The same would apply to murder. Would the person who commits murder and then claim to be a Christian keep on murdering people???? God forbid!

Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery..."Go and sin no more" or better said....."Stop committing this sin of adultery".

Right. I agree that saved persons don't sin without regard, or continue to live in sin they know.

This begs several serious questions, however. I understand the argument of a backsliding murderer being unsaved, but I don't know if I fully agree.

If we say persons who continue to commit the same sin after they are aware of it are not actually saved, then we have to include every sin. That means white lies, cursing/reviling, spreading rumors, and so on. All of us have sinned, and I would venture to say that most all people still sin - even known sin. These are stumbles; we know a believer can stumble many times but not fall.

So, I would be careful not to condemn everyone who back slides back into [un]known sin. Many people are struggling with sins they repeat - I am not sure God disqualifies them as His child. The process of sanctification most often takes an entire lifetime to get to the point where you are consistently "99.456% sin free."

I do think there is a difference between a repentant sinner (one who feels REMORSE,) and one who sins without regard knowing it is wrong.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Sep 29, 2016

Here is one of Jesus' laws, Paul made his own, and by the grace of God I too accept as God's Law for me ---for me, being a Christian! It's this, "Avoid (shun / don't partake in) foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the Law (of God), for they are unprofitable and vain." In fact through experience I have found out they are harmful.

Noticed that "foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings", are ALL "about the Law"? Noticed that it's also "genealogies ... about the Law"?

Yes! when "questions" no longer really are questions, but contentions and strivings over "genealogies", they have become "foolish, unprofitable and vain", and, downright harmful because they without exception have become classified, racy, hateful, defamatory discrimination.

As soon as one starts contending the Law is Jewish, not for others, not for heathen Christians, I leave! I shun such rhetoric because it is all the hateful face of genealogical -- racial -- discrimination.

When one has passed the racy grade, he begins the wise grade, and not to sound foolish, will begin to speak of Old Covenant law, New Covenant law, Old Testament law, New Testament law, instead of Jewish and so on law.

But after one has graduated in wisdom and shrewdness in law, he must still article in Law profitability, before he could start his own church.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 29, 2016

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Here is one of Jesus' laws, Paul made his own, and by the grace of God I too accept as God's Law for me ---for me, being a Christian! It's this, "Avoid (shun / don't partake in) foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the Law (of God), for they are unprofitable and vain." In fact through experience I have found out they are harmful.

AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !
Not just the APOSTLES, but most ekklesia ever since then - IN THEIR GATHERINGS, they do not permit such nonsense (disobeying Y'SHUA, breaking the commandments, teaching others to break the commandments).

Only in mixed groups is this seen. / In the world. (this forum is in the world, open internet to anyone) (just like politics: at a democratic or republican function, other parties are not usually present or allowed at private parties/ meetings to proselytize nor to speak , they don't teach the same things at all, nor have the same goals as the other parties politically)

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Sep 29, 2016

davidcrosby said:
O' we all agree that Jesus said do not murder even to the extent that "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1John 3:15).
That's why a genuine Christian with the love of Christ in him knows the law says do not murder but doesn't live by "the sinful passions which were aroused by the law at work in our members to bear fruit to death" (Rom 7:5). But instead lives by "the perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25) obtained through the "law of faith" (Rom 3:27) which has "fulfilled the Royal law according to the Scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'" (James 2:8).
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2). The law of sin and death says do not murder. The law of life in the Spirit says love your neighbor... in which there is no desire to murder.

Yeah, I have to live by the desires which desire His desiring in me... "Against such there is no law" (Gal 5:23).
Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control to ya brother.

Rom 2:23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

A wonderful beautiful post.

Is there something you wanted to say but could not say directly? Because you're afraid to?

Just asking, because that was one of the impression I got from your really worthy and good post.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Sep 29, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !
Not just the APOSTLES, but most ekklesia ever since then - IN THEIR GATHERINGS, they do not permit such nonsense (disobeying Y'SHUA, breaking the commandments, teaching others to break the commandments).

Only in mixed groups is this seen. / In the world. (this forum is in the world, open internet to anyone) (just like politics: at a democratic or republican function, other parties are not usually present or allowed at private parties/ meetings to proselytize nor to speak , they don't teach the same things at all, nor have the same goals as the other parties politically)

< yeshuaslavejeff > ... sjounds tipsy to me ... looks tipsy from the post, I couldn't tell.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 29, 2016

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
< yeshuaslavejeff > ... sjounds tipsy to me ... looks tipsy from the post, I couldn't tell.

This doesn't make sense.

Soyeong · Sep 29, 2016

Major1 said:
The conflict I see is that you are parsing your words and working to say what is not there.

You said and I quote........
"You are saying to inherit eternal life we don't have not commit adultery, we don't have to not kill, we don't have to not steal, we don't have to not bear false witness, we don't have to honor our mothers and our fathers. Yet here is Jesus saying we do."

I did not say that and I am not saying that. Please notice......I am saying that NOT doing those things will not save you!!!

They will keep you out of jail and make you a very nice person and a good friend but not doing them does not get you to heaven my friend.

WHAT DOES????

Again I say to you exactly what Jesus said to a man who was a law keeper and teacher of the law........
John 3:5......
"Verily, verily I say to you that except a man be born again of water and the SPirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God".

Romans 10:9 tells us how that takes place......
"If you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and BELIEVE in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved".

The preceding verses in Romans 10:5-9 talk about what it means to confess Jesus as Lord, which in reference to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, so confessing Jesus as Lord means to be under his authority and obey his commands given in the Mosaic law. Believing in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the death is significant in that it is about Jesus giving himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, so if you believe that in your heart, then you will not return back to the lawlessness that you were redeemed from. It is by grace that we are being trained to follow those instructions (Titus 2:11-14) and it is through faith that we demonstrate that we trust God enough to obey His instructions for how to rightly live. Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so our salvation is from lawlessness, and it is by grace through faith that we are being saved from disobedience to the law and coming into obedience to it.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 29, 2016

Soyeong said:
Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so our salvation is from lawlessness, and it is by grace through faith that we are saved from disobedience to the law and come into obedience to it.

AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !

p.s. ekklesia are saved from pernicious society also - from the power of the world and its influences, as well as all the other deceptions of or from satan and the flesh and the powers of darkness anywhere - UNTIL the appointed time of martyrdom, YHWH WILLING.

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

Soyeong said:
The preceding verses in Romans 10:5-9 talk about what it means to confess Jesus as Lord, which in reference to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, so confessing Jesus as Lord means to be under his authority and obey his commands given in the Mosaic law. Believing in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the death is significant in that it is about Jesus giving himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, so if you believe that in your heart, then you will not return back to the lawlessness that you were redeemed from. It is through faith that we demonstrate that we trust God enough to obey His instructions for how to rightly live and it is by grace that we are being trained to follow those instructions (Titus 2:11-14). Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so our salvation is from lawlessness, and it is by grace through faith that we are saved from disobedience to the law and come into obedience to it.

I am sorry to tell you this but Romans 10:9 is about how we get saved and not about authority or obeying God's commands. It is about the gospel and not the law.

A careful study of Deut. 30:11-14 tells us that it is prophetic and is speaking of a day when Israel will turn to God with all its heart and soul.

Consider Deut. 33:10 which says................
"They will teach Jacob thy judgments, and Israel thy law, they will put incense before thee and whole burnt sacrifices before thine alter".

God put out the law so that we can know we are sinners and so that we can know what God requires. That is the purpose of the law. Again I say to you all, the law was never given to save, it was given to reveal to man that he is a sinner.

Sin is fundamentally contrary to the will of God.

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
AMEIN and HALLELUYAH !

p.s. ekklesia are saved from pernicious society also - from the power of the world and its influences, as well as all the other deceptions of or from satan and the flesh and the powers of darkness anywhere - UNTIL the appointed time of martyrdom, YHWH WILLING.

"Until the appointed time of martyrdom".

Would you like to explain that comment to me please?

Major1 · Sep 29, 2016

tatteredsoul said:
Right. I agree that saved persons don't sin without regard, or continue to live in sin they know.

This begs several serious questions, however. I understand the argument of a backsliding murderer being unsaved, but I don't know if I fully agree.

If we say persons who continue to commit the same sin after they are aware of it are not actually saved, then we have to include every sin. That means white lies, cursing/reviling, spreading rumors, and so on. All of us have sinned, and I would venture to say that most all people still sin - even known sin. These are stumbles; we know a believer can stumble many times but not fall.

So, I would be careful not to condemn everyone who back slides back into [un]known sin. Many people are struggling with sins they repeat - I am not sure God disqualifies them as His child. The process of sanctification most often takes an entire lifetime to get to the point where you are consistently "99.456% sin free."

I do think there is a difference between a repentant sinner (one who feels REMORSE,) and one who sins without regard knowing it is wrong.

I believe that we are basically saying the same thing. But now add to what we are saying what those who are saying about keeping the law if we are saved.

IF we have to keep the law to stay saved, then as you have said we must then keep ALL of the law, correct?

Since that logically and Biblically would be the case does everyone here realize then that NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN????

Romans 3:23......"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 29, 2016

Major1 said:
"Until the appointed time of martyrdom".

Would you like to explain that comment to me please?

This refers to the Apostles who were martyred , the disciples who were martyred,
and the ones who will be martyred.
YHWH has set or knows the time, each time, all the time,
and answers the prayers PROCLAIMED in the book of REVELATION
that when the last one to give their life , to be martyred as the others whose blood cries
out since the creation of the world,
YHWH will execute HIS VENGEANCE JUSTLY upon those responsible;
YHWH will immediately take action at the TIME HE HAS KNOWN SINCE
before creating the world.

Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

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