Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

Jim Langston · Oct 3, 2016

Major1 said:
And that is exactly what I have been saying!!!!!

That is what you think you are saying, but that is not what you are saying and you can't even see that.

And in what day was Jesus saying do not steal? You did not answer

Major1 · Oct 4, 2016

Jim Langston said:
That is what you think you are saying, but that is not what you are saying and you can't even see that.

And in what day was Jesus saying do not steal? You did not answer

Jim. I see that we are not going to agree on this as all you do is ask questions which have been answered again and again. I am withdrawing and moving on as it is clear that you are entrenched in a teaching you believe and I personally do not. Bible verse after Bible verse has been offered and after all of that the question is the same.............
"And in what day did Jesus say do not steal".

What does it matter?????

I am withdrawing from this as it is not profitable and all we are doing is talking able genealogies and law keeping which is abundantly non Biblical.

God bless you and stay well and maybe we will talk on another thread.

Major out.

DeaconDean · Oct 10, 2016

Ken Rank said:
Not at all, there are differences based only on your understanding. You can't reconcile them so you say they contrast, you pit them against one another. But they are in perfect harmony but I am writing to a guy who thinks GOD authored a work of imperfection, so I won't spend any more time here.

Bye

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean · Oct 10, 2016

Ken Rank said:
"Till all are one" is a cute little signature at the end of your posts that mean nothing if in the process of discussion you treat others as being less than you.

And yet, by the quote above, you do the same.

Hello pot, this is kettle.

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean · Oct 10, 2016

Ken Rank said:
It says, "for finding fault in >>THEM<<" which means it is the PEOPLE not the law. If you are going to use the Scripture to make a defense, USE IT... but read the wording. It does NOT SAY "for finding fault with it," which it would if we are talking about a thing, the law. But it is speaking about PEOPLE which is why it says, "them."

And, I have provided scripture which shows both the Decalogue and the Torah were considered as one.

John Gill comments on Deut. 4:13 saying:

"And he declared unto you his covenant
So the law was called, because it contained, on the part of God, things which he would have done or avoided, to which were annexed promises of long life and happiness in the land he gave them; and they, on their part, agreed to hearken to it, and obey it, ( Exodus 24:3 Exodus 24:7 ) ,

which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments;
which see at large in ( Exodus 20:1-17 ) , and in this book afterwards repeated, ( Deuteronomy 5:6-21 ) ,

and he wrote them upon two tables of stone;
to denote the durableness of them; the Targum of Jonathan says on tables of sapphire; but it is most likely that they were written on tables of marble, since there were great quantities of it in Mount Sinai; (See Gill on Exodus 31:18)."

Source

Furthermore, Gill says regarding Heb. 8:7:

"For if that first covenant had been faultless
Not the covenant of works; that was made in paradise, this on Mount Sinai; that was made with Adam and his posterity, this with the Jews only; that had no mediator, this had one, Moses; that was not dedicated with blood, this was; that had no forgiveness of sin in it, this had; under that saints are not, but they were under this; to be under that was no privilege, but to be under this it was, as to the Israelites, who on this account were preferable to all other nations: nor is the pure covenant of grace as administered under the Gospel, meant; for though that was first made, yet is the second in administration; that includes the elect of God among the Gentiles, this only the Jews; that is made only with them, and is made known to them whom God calls by his grace in time, this was made with good and bad; that was of pure grace, this required works in order to life and the enjoyment of its blessings; that is an everlasting covenant, this is done away; and the one is manifestly distinguished from the other in this chapter: but the covenant here designed is the covenant of grace, as administered under the legal dispensation, and which was a typical one; the people with whom it was made were typical of the true Israel of God; the blessings promised in it were shadows of good things to come; the works it required were typical of Christ's obedience to the law, in the room and stead of his people, by which he fulfilled it; the sacrifices on which it was established were types of the sacrifice and death of Christ; the mediator of it. Moses, was a type of Christ, the Mediator of the new covenant; and it was confirmed by the blood of beasts, which was typical of the blood of Christ: this covenant was not "faultless", but was faulty or blameworthy; not that there was anything sinful and criminal in it, but it was deficient; there was a weakness in it; its sacrifices could not make men perfect, nor take away sin; there wanted a larger supply of the grace of the Spirit to write the law of God upon the heart, and to enable men to keep it; there was not in it so full a revelation of the mind and will of God, and of his love and grace, as has since been made; nor did it exhibit a free and full pardon for all sins, unclogged of every condition; the persons that were under it were faulty; hence it follows, that God found fault with them, they could not answer the requirements and end of it: had it been faultless,

then should no place have been sought for the second;
the covenant of grace unveiled in the Gospel dispensation, called the better testament, the better covenant, and the new covenant; in order to, introduce which, the first was removed, that this might succeed it; just as because there was no perfection by the Levitical priesthood, it became necessary that another priest should arise, of another order."

Source

Where were the instructions for the Levitical priesthood?

In the Torah, the Law. It had a fault in it in that the Levitical priesthood was weak. (cf. Heb. 7:11)

In fact, didn't Moses go up to Mt. Sinai where God said to him:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:" -Ex. 19:5 (KJV)

Besides that, there are no red ribbons handed out for doing 612 laws, or even 100. The Law was specific, do them and live. And dispite that, nobody could do all the Law required.

"Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." -Gal. 3:10 (KJV)

Gone are the days when a woman during her menstral cycle had to separate themselves. Gone were the days where you were no longer considered "unclean" because you touched a dead body. Gone was the requirement to build a knee wall around your roof. Gone were the days when you sacrificed for your sins.

Paul said it best:

"ye are not under the law, but under grace." -Rom. 6:14 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

Ken Rank · Oct 10, 2016

DeaconDean said:
And, I have provided scripture which shows both the Decalogue and the Torah were considered as one.

John Gill comments on Deut. 4:13 saying:

"And he declared unto you his covenant
So the law was called, because it contained, on the part of God, things which he would have done or avoided, to which were annexed promises of long life and happiness in the land he gave them; and they, on their part, agreed to hearken to it, and obey it, ( Exodus 24:3 Exodus 24:7 ) ,

which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments;
which see at large in ( Exodus 20:1-17 ) , and in this book afterwards repeated, ( Deuteronomy 5:6-21 ) ,

and he wrote them upon two tables of stone;
to denote the durableness of them; the Targum of Jonathan says on tables of sapphire; but it is most likely that they were written on tables of marble, since there were great quantities of it in Mount Sinai; (See Gill on Exodus 31:18)."

Source

Furthermore, Gill says regarding Heb. 8:7:

"For if that first covenant had been faultless
Not the covenant of works; that was made in paradise, this on Mount Sinai; that was made with Adam and his posterity, this with the Jews only; that had no mediator, this had one, Moses; that was not dedicated with blood, this was; that had no forgiveness of sin in it, this had; under that saints are not, but they were under this; to be under that was no privilege, but to be under this it was, as to the Israelites, who on this account were preferable to all other nations: nor is the pure covenant of grace as administered under the Gospel, meant; for though that was first made, yet is the second in administration; that includes the elect of God among the Gentiles, this only the Jews; that is made only with them, and is made known to them whom God calls by his grace in time, this was made with good and bad; that was of pure grace, this required works in order to life and the enjoyment of its blessings; that is an everlasting covenant, this is done away; and the one is manifestly distinguished from the other in this chapter: but the covenant here designed is the covenant of grace, as administered under the legal dispensation, and which was a typical one; the people with whom it was made were typical of the true Israel of God; the blessings promised in it were shadows of good things to come; the works it required were typical of Christ's obedience to the law, in the room and stead of his people, by which he fulfilled it; the sacrifices on which it was established were types of the sacrifice and death of Christ; the mediator of it. Moses, was a type of Christ, the Mediator of the new covenant; and it was confirmed by the blood of beasts, which was typical of the blood of Christ: this covenant was not "faultless", but was faulty or blameworthy; not that there was anything sinful and criminal in it, but it was deficient; there was a weakness in it; its sacrifices could not make men perfect, nor take away sin; there wanted a larger supply of the grace of the Spirit to write the law of God upon the heart, and to enable men to keep it; there was not in it so full a revelation of the mind and will of God, and of his love and grace, as has since been made; nor did it exhibit a free and full pardon for all sins, unclogged of every condition; the persons that were under it were faulty; hence it follows, that God found fault with them, they could not answer the requirements and end of it: had it been faultless,

then should no place have been sought for the second;
the covenant of grace unveiled in the Gospel dispensation, called the better testament, the better covenant, and the new covenant; in order to, introduce which, the first was removed, that this might succeed it; just as because there was no perfection by the Levitical priesthood, it became necessary that another priest should arise, of another order."

Source

Where were the instructions for the Levitical priesthood?

In the Torah, the Law. It had a fault in it in that the Levitical priesthood was weak. (cf. Heb. 7:11)

In fact, didn't Moses go up to Mt. Sinai where God said to him:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:" -Ex. 19:5 (KJV)

Besides that, there are no red ribbons handed out for doing 612 laws, or even 100. The Law was specific, do them and live. And dispite that, nobody could do all the Law required.

"Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." -Gal. 3:10 (KJV)

Gone are the days when a woman during her menstral cycle had to separate themselves. Gone were the days where you were no longer considered "unclean" because you touched a dead body. Gone was the requirement to build a knee wall around your roof. Gone were the days when you sacrificed for your sins.

Paul said it best:

"ye are not under the law, but under grace." -Rom. 6:14 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

You wrote an awful lot after saying Good bye. I think it best we leave it there. When I have discussions with others, I truly don't mind at all if we don't agree. Heck, none of us are perfected, I guarantee little in life but one thing I do guarantee is that every single one of us will stand before Yeshua and something we hold dear, that we KNOW is correct, will be wrong. All of us... and I truly believe that we shouldn't expect that we will always draw the same conclusions. In fact, being of "one mind and one accord" to the Hebrew long ago was not the idea that we had to look, think, and act alike... but rather, despite any differences, that we function as one toward the common goals before us.

But when most of what one does is just copy and paste what others have said, I simply have no interest. I don't care what John Gill said, I am not talking to John Gill, I was talking to you. As for your comments... look, do as you feel convicted. You seem content demeaning the very things that messiah lived by. He walked Torah perfectly and in doing so revealed the spirit and intent of the letter. He also became the model by which we are to follow... we walk as he walked, or at least, we are supposed to. But instead, in our Western modern dispensational culture, we teach that walking in obedience just as messiah did is some kind of bondage and that it nullifies our salvation? Not a chance... unless of course you think that works save, which I don't.

You take care and blessings.
Ken

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2016

Jim Langston said:
I make a distinct notice of the fact that Jesus says "thou knowest the commandments" and not "thou knowest the law". Commandments. Law. See the difference? Jesus did not say follow the law. Jesus said follow the commandments. Did He not?

Good.
Of all the ten commandments, which one did YHWH say "Go Ahead and BREAK" ?
#1 (heaven forbid) Go Ahead and have other gods? (NO!)
#2 (heaven forbid) Go Ahead and take HIS NAME in vain(consider it powerless, empty and worthless except for show like whitewashed tombs)? (NO!)
#3 (heaven forbid) Go Ahead and have idols? (NO!)
#4 (heaven forbid) Go Ahead and dishonor the 7th Day God Made Holy Himself? (NO!)
#5 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and dis your parents..... ? (NO!)
#6 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and murder ? (NO!)
#7 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and adultery ? (NO!)
#8 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and steal ? (NO!)
#9 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and witness falsely against neighbor ? (NO!)
#10 (heaven forbid) GO Ahead and desire for yourself what is the neighbors? (NO!)

.... see ? did YHWH turn on HIMSELF ? did Y'SHUA change after all - instead of Y'SHUA the SAME TODAY, YESTERDAY, and FOREVER !?

p.s. there is a built in test to see who knows the commandments and who is reading this post. don't worry about this.

IF someone LOVES YHWH(GOD) and LOVES OTHERS,
THEN will they GO Ahead and destroy what YHWH has made ? (NO!)

IF someone LOVES YHWH and LOVES OTHERS,
THEN will they GO Ahead and willfully BREAK any commandment of YHWH ?

Selah

Ken Rank · Oct 11, 2016

Jim Langston said:
I make a distinct notice of the fact that Jesus says "thou knowest the commandments" and not "thou knowest the law". Commandments. Law. See the difference? Jesus did not say follow the law. Jesus said follow the commandments. Did He not?

If I may Jim? The word Torah literally means instructions or directions. But when it was all written at Sinai, it became the rule of law for Israel as the ability to prosecute along with the judgments were added. Truly the "law" however, judgments aside... is the compilation of commandments. So when we day "commandments" as in "all of them," we are talking about the law.

But I want to throw something out for consideration. I believe based now on a decade of studying this, that most of the time when we see the word "law" in the NT, that it isn't speaking about God's law... but rather either Jewish law (God's law + rabbinic additions) or the law of sin and death. Yes, often... it speaks of God's law. But when we learn to differentiate between the law of the people which was weighted with Jewish law or additions to God's law rather than just God's instructions and God's pure law itself, some of the conclusions we have arrived at, we will no longer agree with. That isn't to say we all run out and become Jewish and work our way unto salvation .... it just means what we all really know inside... that we come in faith believing and are saved by His grace alone.... but now that He is Lord and we subservient to Him, we allow Him to direct our walk. Direct our walk... Torah also means directions. In fact, one lexicon defines it as, "the pointing of a finger in the direction one should live or walk." He is Lord... He calls the shots, not us.

Blessings.
Ken

Jim Langston · Oct 11, 2016

Ken Rank said:
If I may Jim? The word Torah literally means instructions or directions. But when it was all written at Sinai, it became the rule of law for Israel as the ability to prosecute along with the judgments were added. Truly the "law" however, judgments aside... is the compilation of commandments. So when we day "commandments" as in "all of them," we are talking about the law.

But I want to throw something out for consideration. I believe based now on a decade of studying this, that most of the time when we see the word "law" in the NT, that it isn't speaking about God's law... but rather either Jewish law (God's law + rabbinic additions) or the law of sin and death. Yes, often... it speaks of God's law. But when we learn to differentiate between the law of the people which was weighted with Jewish law or additions to God's law rather than just God's instructions and God's pure law itself, some of the conclusions we have arrived at, we will no longer agree with. That isn't to say we all run out and become Jewish and work our way unto salvation .... it just means what we all really know inside... that we come in faith believing and are saved by His grace alone.... but now that He is Lord and we subservient to Him, we allow Him to direct our walk. Direct our walk... Torah also means directions. In fact, one lexicon defines it as, "the pointing of a finger in the direction one should live or walk." He is Lord... He calls the shots, not us.

Blessings.
Ken

One man adked Jesus how to get to heaven and Jesus said you know the commandments, and quoted some of the ten commandments. I already quoted that scripture in the OP.

Another man asked Jesus the same question as recorded in Luke 10:

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind;"
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Doing those are following the commandments. Do not lie, steal, etc... because that is not loving your neighbor.

That is what Jesus said we need to do to get to heaven. Yet people say oh, no, you don't have to follow the commandmenrs because we're saved by grace, not works, we are not under the law. That is true, we are not saved by our works and Jesus is very clear, those who continue to live in sin will not enter heaven.

Ignore Jesus at your own peril. Understand that following the ten commandments is not what saves us, but it is why we are saved.

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

Jim Langston said:
This post is in response to this response http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ords-day-sunday.7966382/page-18#post-70193626 in the thread "Should Christians rest on the Sabbath (saturday) and rejoice on the Lords day (sunday)?"

I will try to keep the quoting correct but I may be off and it was not intentional.

Again, my post was not in response to worshipping on the Sabbath day. It was in response to someone stating we, as Christians, weren't obligated to follow the ten commandments because we weren't under the law.

This is the text of the scripture.

Luke 18
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? 27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

This same occurrence was recorded in Matthew 19:16-30 and Mark 10:17-31. There are a few differences in text, the main one being Matthew 19 has the man saying "what lack I yet?" and Jesus responding "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell..." seeming to indicate that selling all that he had and giving it to the poor was not a requirement for salvation, but with it he would get greater rewards in heaven.

So, a man asked Jesus what that man had to do to get to heaven and Jesus basically said follow the ten commandments. Can we at least agree with that? The words the man and Jesus said in the bible? Whether it was because this man was a Jew and not a gentile or not, or because Jesus hadn't died on the cross at not is another point. If we can agree with what the man asked and what Jesus replied and that Jesus didn't lie we can proceed on the same page.

I make a distinct notice of the fact that Jesus says "thou knowest the commandments" and not "thou knowest the law". Commandments. Law. See the difference? Jesus did not say follow the law. Jesus said follow the commandments. Did He not?

It is my contention that where the new testament uses the word "law", usually Paul, what he meant by that was the Mosiac law, I.E. Moses' laws other than the 10 commandments. This he expressed best, I think, in Galatians 5:14 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." after Paul goes on about how we are no longer under the law, meaning the Mosaic law, but under the 10 commandments which are also under what he calls in other places the law of Christ. Jesus said all the commandments were based on love god with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself. Here is the section in Galations where Paul is saying don't follow the (Mosaic) law but follow the 10 commandments, I.E. Love thy neighbors as thyself (even Jesus left out all the commandments about loving God, curiously enough).

Galations 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Even Paul is saying your law is now love thy neighbour as thyself, just as Jesus told the man who asked how to get to heaven, because you may notice that all those commandments he gave dealt with love our neighbors as ourselves.

So, Jesus says follow the 10 commandments (at least the ones dealing with other people). Paul says follow the 10 commandments (at least the ones dealing with other people). If you can figure out a way to steal from someone while still treating them as yourself you are denying the truth. If you love your neighbor as yourself you will will follow the commandments automatically because, as Jesus says, that's what all the commandments are based on. Jesus said do it. Paul said do it. Do what? Love your neightbor as yourself, I.E. follow the 10 commandments.

I am not talking about the commandments dealing with God. It is possible that we are only under 6 commandments but we are told elsewhere that people who practice idolatry won't get to heaven either. We are also told somewhere that the Godless won't enter heaven. So that's 9. Which leaves do we have to honor the Sabbath.

I am a Christian, I am not Jewish. I am not under the Mosiac Law according to what Jesus said. I read the new testament and read what Jesus said and Jesus tells me to Love the lord my God with all my heart, all my mind and all my soul and love my neighbor as myself. I only have 2 laws to worry about. All the others fall under those. Basically if it doesn't hurt God and it doesn't hurt anyone else then it's not sin. If it hurts god or it hurts anyone else then it's sin. Easy to remember. Easy to know when I fail and have to ask God for forgiveness.

Maybe it's a cop out for me to simply state that it's because I'm not Jewish because Jews aren't under the Mosaic law anymore either. It's easier to not be told to do something then to be told to do something then be told to stop. But since I'm not Jewish for me personally I don't have to worry about it. The Mosaic law saved the Jews, not the Gentiles so they never applied to me at any time since the beginning of creation. Maybe if I live some point in the past before Jesus came I might have to worry about following the Mosiac law or not being a gentile but it's a none issue today. Jesus never said I had to follow them, Paul never did, no one in the bible I can find ever said that me, a gentile, ever had to follow the Mosaic law.

Let me get this straight, you are saying that accepting Jesus as my savior is not works it is an act. So, answer this, how by any stretch of the imagination is not doing something a work? It is, in fact, the absence of work. Don't steal. Don't covet. Don't commit adultery. This, to you, are works but accepting Jesus as my savior is not? I'll let you reword this question because on the face of it you never thought your logic thorough.

Now, your comment, we are saved by faith NOT OF WORKS. Just as the doctor example later, I had to go to the doctor. I had to take any medication he gave me. But my acts did not save me, the doctor performing the operation saved me. I was saved by the operation, NOT BY WORKS. Can we agree here?

I think one of the problems we are having is the Mosaic law was full of works. Sacrifice lambs. Sacrifice sheep. Sin offerings. Etc... Those, to both of us, are ACTS AND WORKS. Can we agree? Before the Jews were saved by WORKS, sacrificing sheep, slaughtering lambs, etc.. for all the sin they did. On top of this they were still supposed to try to follow the 10 commandments. When they couldn't follow the commandments they had to sacrifice an innocent animal to atone for their sins. Jesus has done that atonement for us. So when we fail to follow the commandments, I.E. we fail to treat others as ourselves, instead of sacrificing a sheep/lamb/ox, whatever as an act of WORK we pray to God/Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins. A WORK is not needed for the atonement anymore. NOT SINNING IS NOT A WORK.

Okay, [staff edit] this just doesn't seem to make sense. Jesus saves me completely as I have always said. Jesus is the one who washes away my sins. Jesus is the one who forgives my sins. I can do nothing to wash away my sins other than ask Jesus for forgiveness. I have never denied that. It is my sins that keep me out of heaven. If I was born sinless and never sinned and died sinless then I wouldn't have to be forgiven. But no man, other than Jesus, can do that.

I do not comprehend how you are saying I am giving the doctor more credit than Jesus. Just as I had to follow the doctor's orders I had to follow Jesus' orders.

If you can express your question a little better than I may have a better chance of framing a meaningful answer.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! they do focus on following God's commandments. That is what Jesus asks us to do and is part of our salvation! Without trying to follow the 10 commandments we are not saved. And I never said I was perfect, I said I follow the ten commandments and when I fail I ask Jesus for forgiveness which He does because I am following his directive to focus on following God's commandments.

We seem to have the same understanding. So it comes down to one question. If someone asks Jesus into their heart and they do not try to follow the 10 commandments, are they still saved? If they ignored the 10 commandments and lived their lives as if they didn't exist? I think you will agree with me that the person who does that is not saved. But the person who accepts Jesus and tries to follow the 10 commandments and asks for forgiveness when they fail is saved.

I think we absolutely believe the same thing. I think you are stuck on believing that following the 10 commandments is the "works" the bible is saying we are not saved by, when I believe those "works" were the Mosaic law which we are no longer under. We both agree that focusing on following the 10 commandments does not save us. Jesus' forgiving us for our sins when we fail is what saves us. No?

The Christian is not under a law OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(Rom 10:4)

I really do not know why people keep referring to the ''Ten Commandments''

The law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart under the new covenant(Jeremiah 31, Heb 10:15-18)

If you want a standard to live by read the beatitudes!

Jesus upped the law so to speak. Then you will realise how much you need grace!!

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

Jim Langston said:
One man adked Jesus how to get to heaven and Jesus said you know the commandments, and quoted some of the ten commandments. I already quoted that scripture in the OP.

Another man asked Jesus the same question as recorded in Luke 10:

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind;"
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Doing those are following the commandments. Do not lie, steal, etc... because that is not loving your neighbor.

That is what Jesus said we need to do to get to heaven. Yet people say oh, no, you don't have to follow the commandmenrs because we're saved by grace, not works, we are not under the law. That is true, we are not saved by our works and Jesus is very clear, those who continue to live in sin will not enter heaven.

Ignore Jesus at your own peril. Understand that following the ten commandments is not what saves us, but it is why we are saved.

You do know that Paul stated the Ten Commandments were the ministration of death 2Cor 3:7 For they were the only laws written on tablets of stone.
I hope you never have an impure thought, for if you do you break the tenth commandment and cannot be in a saved state according to your belief.

The Christian is not under a law of righteousness/justification before God. That includes the ten commandments as I can easily prove from scripture.

That is not a licence to sin, for the new covenant comes in TWO parts, not one. The first part cuts out a licence to sin as you are not under a law of righteousness

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
You do know that Paul stated the Ten Commandments were the ministration of death 2Cor 3:3 For they were the only laws written on tablets of stone.
I hope you never have an impure thought, for if you do you break the tenth commandment and cannot be in a saved state according to your belief.

And yet the TORAH / ten commandments restore the soul, and lead to MESSIAH Y'SHUA.
The 'ministration of death' is because the penalty for sin is death.
The ten commandments did not change so we could live, remember ?
They did not change at all.
The penalty too, did not change. Remember ?
The penalty for sin is death.
Thus 'the ministration of death' ....

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
And yet the TORAH / ten commandments restore the soul, and lead to MESSIAH Y'SHUA.
The 'ministration of death' is because the penalty for sin is death.
The ten commandments did not change so we could live, remember ?
They did not change at all.
The penalty too, did not change. Remember ?
The penalty for sin is death.
Thus 'the ministration of death' ....

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law)' so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom 7:6

Why keep mentioning the Ten Commandments. The Christian instinctively knows how God wants them to live in their mind and in their heart they want to obey, for that is where the law now is. It got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3)
Those who keep referring to the ''ten commandments'' appear to still be following the written code rather than the holy Spirit

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law

Perhaps some, not all,
but not by dying.
People died all along, and they were not released
from the penalty of the law - death.

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Perhaps some, not all,
but not by dying.
People died all along, and they were not released
from the penalty of the law - death.

Perhaps some not all????

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom 7:4-6

So which law is Paul referring to in the above?
In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness, and follow after the holy spirit, not the written code:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7-11

The example Paul gave as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness, and follow after the Holy Spirit, not the written code was . Thou shalt not covet, which is one of the Ten Commandments

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 16, 2016

Jim Langston said:
And in what day was Jesus saying do not steal?

TODAY

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 16, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Perhaps some not all????

Do you think everyone TODAY is in YHWH'S KINGDOM (heaven) ?

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Do you think everyone TODAY is in YHWH'S KINGDOM (heaven) ?

No one is in Heaven yet!

1John2:4 · Oct 16, 2016

ה He
33 Teach me, O Lord, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with mywhole heart.
35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.
36 Incline my heart to Your testimonies,
And not to covetousness.
37 Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things,
And revive me in Your way.
38 Establish Your word to Your servant,
Who is devoted to fearing You.
39 Turn away my reproach which I dread,
For Your judgments are good.
40 Behold, I long for Your precepts;
Revive me in Your righteousness.

stuart lawrence · Oct 16, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Do you think everyone TODAY is in YHWH'S KINGDOM (heaven) ?

The only people going to heaven are those who have been born again, those who have the law written on their minds and placed on their hearts. For what is on your heart you in your heart want to obey.
Jesus is the saviour of those born again of the spirit, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to obey his father

Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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