Is Everything That Happens God’s Will?

[linssue55]

You really have a very simple minded concept of a being who is infinitely more complex than you will ever be. That's the problem. God has a purpose in all that happens. Even war. He is not the "good fairy" like you want us to see him as being.

Satan and demons can do NOTHING without God's permission!

Satan did not go to Heaven looking to go after Job. Satan was not even considering Job.

It was God who instigated Satan's testing of Job!

Job 1:7-9 (New International Version)
"The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."




Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."



"Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied."



Satan was going around Job. Avoiding him. It was the Lord who got Satan to concentrate on Job. Not only that, God did it again!



Job 2:2-4 (New International Version)

"And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
"Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life."

Satan can do nothing without God's permission!

Luke 22:31-32 (New International Version)
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you all as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Even the demons possessing Legion could not go into the swine without the Lord's permission!

Matthew 8:30-32 (New International Version)
"Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."
He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water."


The demonic realm can do no evil to man or animal without God's permission.
God is good. There is no evil in God. Yet, in your simple minded outlook you can only see God being evil if he allows for such things. God wants you to snap out of the 'good fairy' (white witch) concept that you have of Him. He has a purpose in all the bad things that happen. You are just limiting God by your limited (and stubborn) desire to see God through your own version of rose colored glasses. We are to fear God (respect). Not use him as an object to attach euphoric human emotions in association with. Which is what you appear to be desiring to do. Not even a simple sparrow perishes without God allowing it.

Matthew 10:29 niv
"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny ? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father."

Nothing happens outside of God's will. Now is the time of testing men's hearts. Hearts need to be exposed now, not later.

Now? Maybe you'll go back and read my two posts that explain this?
Messages #4, and #12? The ones you have completely ignored?

It was God who instigated that Satan go after Job. It was not Satan first asking God to go after Job. God set the restrictions on what Satan could do to Job. But, the Lord knew very well what would happen when he pointed out Job to Satan.

Hoping I am making you think.....


Grace and peace, GeneZ

Hi Genez.... . How ya doin'? Great post!

 

[indigirl1]

these kind of questions are just a game of ping pong in the mind. it will never get anywhere toward a meaningful end. yet i play these ping pong games in my mind constantly. i should pray more often.

 

[GenemZ]

Hi Genez.... . How ya doin'? Great post!

Whew! Its good to know that one is not all alone!

Wanting and learning sound doctrine is the only answer. If one wants sound doctrine, that is the one thing God will never withhold from us. Never.

John 8:32 niv
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."


Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[DeAnn]

mmmm the age old arguments of Predestination versus free will......Well, it's been a civil conversation so far...Good points on both sides..Is one side of the argument false and the other true?
Or can both be true? I don't know....

What is God's Perfect Will? Personally, I believe it is likened unto the original state of Man and the Universe before sin entered and tampered with God's Original Plan, Thoughts and Design-no sickness, disease, pain, suffering etc.
Did God have pre-knowledge of the sin of Adam and Eve? Yes.
Why didn't he stop it from happening? Because Adam and Eve had freedom to choose; free will was his original plan. God wants a passionate relationship with his children that they choose to have with him, He did not have to force it out of them.
Did Adam and Eve have knowledge of God's Perfect Will? Yes, they did and so do we-We have his WORD that revealed his original plan for mankind.
Was it in God's original plan and perfect will for Adam and Eve(and the subsequent genereations of humans) to suffer? No. I do not believe it is God' original plan and intention for painful things to happen in our own lives or in the world, abortions, murders, rapes, genoicides etc.. It could not be his Perfect will.
Is it God's Perfect Will that we still have hope of his original plan and intent manifest in our lives even after the atrocities that occur? Yes, that is why we are promised that ' all things work together for the good of them who love the Lord" We are reminded that his Original Plan and Intent will become an ultimate reality one day if we do not lose hope. Even if we do not see it a the time of death, we still have hope that it will be so because He says so.
Has God's Perfect Will for Man and the Universe been altered? No.
Then why do we have such pain and suffering on humankind? Because man chose an alternative response to a tempting situation that was not embedded God's original thoughts and intent.
Is Pain and Suffering God's original plan and intent? No, which is why they are not in heaven.
Can Mankind escape suffering on earth? No, one way or the other we will feel the affliction of pain-emtionally, physically or mentally. Man's propensity is to choose evil over good and furthermore, we were born with that propensity to choose to inflict and cause pain and reject God's Perfect Will for our lives.
Is that God's Perfect will?Original Intent? Original design? No
Does God use suffering and Pain to discipline and correct his children? (My opinion) I had already stated that these are not his perfect will and original intention, then why would he intentionally use pain to teach his children a lesson? Is that the actions of a good father? We are already born with this sin nature and we cannot escape suffering anyways. We will encounter pain one way or the other-whether it be our choice or the choice of others. However, He promises that we will see Him even in the midst of the pain and He will give us hope to continue to believe in Him and His ultimate plan of redemption for us (take us back to his Original Plan).
Can we acquire his Perfect will here on earth amidst all of this pain and suffering ? Yes we can. His Original Plan and intent has not changed. He is the Never changing God and 'His Word is forever established in the heavens', remember?
Aren't Christians given that authority to allow his Perfect Will to be revealed in the earth? Yes. We have the authority to 'tread upon serpents' and anything that is not lined up with the Will of God. Jesus gave us that authority. He walked in it that authority as an example to his followers. We should not accept nothing less. We are supposed to believe His Word and our actions should show that we believe His Word.
Do you see consistency in the Perfect Will of God being manifested in the earth today? No. We are not utilising our authority as we should. Even though Jesus taught us that we can pray "let your will be done in earth AS IT IS in heaven". Additonally he says that whatever we ask in HIS name it shall be done. mmmmm, maybe we [Body of Christ] do not fully understand WHOSE we are and WHO we are and WHAT we have inside of us..

That's it for now...

 

[GenemZ]

I wanna say. I wanna say.

I wanna say that while the evil doings may not be God's active doing, He passively allows them to happen. It's simple logic: no resistance, no growth. He allows these things to happen because they are supposed to benefit the Christian life.

That's why Paul wrote...

Romans 8:28 niv
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

God works for the good in "all things." Not just the good things. All.

Not all believers grow to love God. Not all things work for their good. Because many do not love the truth. They would rather worship a God that they prefer to believe in, in their own thinking; rather than allowing the Word of God transform their thinking about God. That is why Jesus warned:

Matthew 16:24 niv
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Those who refuse to deny self, recreate God in their own image. They refuse to allow their minds to be transformed by a proper understanding of God's Word. Like what was shown in the posts I presented in this thread. It was God who instigated the suffering of Job. Not, Satan...

That forces us to think that things are not quite as simple as some wish it to be. Answers need to be found. Prayed for. Patience is required if we are to follow after the Lord. Quick, simple answers do not work in many ways.

That means, suffering for righteousness sake. Not all are willing to take up that cross Jesus spoke of. Some even surrender their wills and allow for institutionalized religion to do their thinking for them. There are many ways of getting around that cross Jesus spoke of.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[justinstout]

mmmm the age old arguments of Predestination versus free will......Well, it's been a civil conversation so far...Good points on both sides..Is one side of the argument false and the other true?
Or can both be true? I don't know....

What is God's Perfect Will? Personally, I believe it is likened unto the original state of Man and the Universe before sin entered and tampered with God's Original Plan, Thoughts and Design-no sickness, disease, pain, suffering etc.
Did God have pre-knowledge of the sin of Adam and Eve? Yes.
Why didn't he stop it from happening? Because Adam and Eve had freedom to choose; free will was his original plan. God wants a passionate relationship with his children that they choose to have with him, He did not have to force it out of them.
Did Adam and Eve have knowledge of God's Perfect Will? Yes, they did and so do we-We have his WORD that revealed his original plan for mankind.
Was it in God's original plan and perfect will for Adam and Eve(and the subsequent genereations of humans) to suffer? No. I do not believe it is God' original plan and intention for painful things to happen in our own lives or in the world, abortions, murders, rapes, genoicides etc.. It could not be his Perfect will.
Is it God's Perfect Will that we still have hope of his original plan and intent manifest in our lives even after the atrocities that occur? Yes, that is why we are promised that ' all things work together for the good of them who love the Lord" We are reminded that his Original Plan and Intent will become an ultimate reality one day if we do not lose hope. Even if we do not see it a the time of death, we still have hope that it will be so because He says so.
Has God's Perfect Will for Man and the Universe been altered? No.
Then why do we have such pain and suffering on humankind? Because man chose an alternative response to a tempting situation that was not embedded God's original thoughts and intent.
Is Pain and Suffering God's original plan and intent? No, which is why they are not in heaven.
Can Mankind escape suffering on earth? No, one way or the other we will feel the affliction of pain-emtionally, physically or mentally. Man's propensity is to choose evil over good and furthermore, we were born with that propensity to choose to inflict and cause pain and reject God's Perfect Will for our lives.
Is that God's Perfect will?Original Intent? Original design? No
Does God use suffering and Pain to discipline and correct his children? (My opinion) I had already stated that these are not his perfect will and original intention, then why would he intentionally use pain to teach his children a lesson? Is that the actions of a good father? We are already born with this sin nature and we cannot escape suffering anyways. We will encounter pain one way or the other-whether it be our choice or the choice of others. However, He promises that we will see Him even in the midst of the pain and He will give us hope to continue to believe in Him and His ultimate plan of redemption for us (take us back to his Original Plan).
Can we acquire his Perfect will here on earth amidst all of this pain and suffering ? Yes we can. His Original Plan and intent has not changed. He is the Never changing God and 'His Word is forever established in the heavens', remember?
Aren't Christians given that authority to allow his Perfect Will to be revealed in the earth? Yes. We have the authority to 'tread upon serpents' and anything that is not lined up with the Will of God. Jesus gave us that authority. He walked in it that authority as an example to his followers. We should not accept nothing less. We are supposed to believe His Word and our actions should show that we believe His Word.
Do you see consistency in the Perfect Will of God being manifested in the earth today? No. We are not utilising our authority as we should. Even though Jesus taught us that we can pray "let your will be done in earth AS IT IS in heaven". Additonally he says that whatever we ask in HIS name it shall be done. mmmmm, maybe we [Body of Christ] do not fully understand WHOSE we are and WHO we are and WHAT we have inside of us..

That's it for now...

Someone else who believes the Word.





Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men!
Luke 2:14

 

[GenemZ]

Was it in God's original plan and perfect will for Adam and Eve(and the subsequent genereations of humans) to suffer? No. I do not believe it is God' original plan and intention for painful things to happen in our own lives or in the world, abortions, murders, rapes, genoicides etc.. It could not be his Perfect will...

You mean we are not in his original plan? That God had another plan for mankind and angels? God knew before the foundation of the world that Christ would suffer. He knew this before man was even created.

1 Peter 1:19-21 (New International Version)
"but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God."

I think that man tends to always think that pain and suffering is always bad. A high fever can kill off a disease within the body. Yet, we tend to see a fever as being a bad thing. God has a good purpose in pain and suffering. But, that can only be know by those who love His Word. Thos who love Him. Not, those who love what they see in their idealized imaginations of what they want God to be. Seeing God as their own creation. Of course, they will not admit to this. God must break them if they are ever to repent.

Philippians 2:12 niv
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Many call the discipline of God to the believer as not being of God. Rather than being humbled before God's mighty hand. They, instead. Rebuke the devil because of false teachings they have swallowed. They never learn who God really is. Because human reason finds certain ways of God as being repulsive. Divine viewpoint sees the end result desired in God's plan, and accepts both the good and the bad as being a part of this life. If they fully mature, they remain content in and under all circumstances.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

Someone else who believes the Word.

Odd... All the passages I quoted in my posts do not exist in your Bible? That what I quoted is not to be believed?

What translation do you use?

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[justinstout]

You mean we are not in his original plan? That God had another plan for mankind and angels? God knew before the foundation of the world that Christ would suffer. He knew this before man was even created.

1 Peter 1:19-21 (New International Version)
"but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God."

I think that man tends to always think that pain and suffering is always bad. A high fever can kill off a disease within the body. Yet, we tend to see a fever as being a bad thing. God has a good purpose in pain and suffering. But, that can only be know by those who love His Word. Thos who love Him. Not, those who love what they see in their idealized imaginations of what they want God to be. Seeing God as their own creation. Of course, they will not admit to this. God must break them if they are ever to repent.

Philippians 2:12 niv
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Many call the discipline of God to the believer as not being of God. Rather than being humbled before God's mighty hand. They, instead. Rebuke the devil because of false teachings they have swallowed. They never learn who God really is. Because human reason finds certain ways of God as being repulsive. Divine viewpoint sees the end result desired in God's plan, and accepts both the good and the bad as being a part of this life. If they fully mature, they remain content in and under all circumstances.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

lol


I'm sorry, I can't even reply to this. I've answered this age-old false doctrine of unscriptural suffering many many times on these forums. If you think God wants you suffering something that He calls a CURSE, then knock yourself out! Just don't blame my Father for it.

 

[seekingpurity047]

And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.
Mark 6:11

As this is what I am doing to you justinstout... your theology is nonsensical. I pray that you get out of this rut by the power of the Holy Spirit, who may, if it is His will, pull you out of the hole that you dug for yourself.

Never to reply again to anymore of your foolish, unorthodox, immoral, theological stances.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[GenemZ]

lol


I'm sorry, I can't even reply to this. I've answered this age-old false doctrine of unscriptural suffering many many times on these forums. If you think God wants you suffering something that He calls a CURSE, then knock yourself out! Just don't blame my Father for it.

You follow the teachings of Kenneth Copeland, or Hagin?

Not all suffering is a curse. That is where you continue to over simplify God.

1 Peter 2:20 niv
"But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."

You have chopped God up, and only kept the part you want.

1 Peter 4:19 niv
"So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good."

Some even welcomed their sufferings (during times of great apostasy).....

Hebrews 11:35 niv
"Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection."

God does not "want suffering," as you put it. But? ...If we are to faithfully follow after Christ? There must be times when God REQUIRES suffering before we can better know who and what Christ is!

You can not get to know the real Jesus Christ with the blinders you wear. You are looking for a Santa Claus..... Not Christ.

If you do not have times of suffering (as well as expected times of joy) in your life? Then, one would have to assume that you are living in a way that pleases the devil. For he resists only those who are on the path of overcoming evil by fighting for more truth. Its not a case of suffering for simply preaching the Word. But suffering by those who desire to learn the truth which is preached!

James 4:7 niv
"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."


The devil causes suffering to those desiring to grow in grace and knowledge of the Word. Yet, if we resist the devil, and keep taking in more truth? The devil must eventually flee.

Why? We begin to know too much for his own comfort. A mature believer confronting the devil is like giving a condemned man a tour of the electric chair, showing him all the latest advances it now possesses.

He hates a believer knowing a great deal of sound doctrinal truth. That is why he resists all believers who begin desiring to know the Word. A million excuses and seductions are offered along the way. Only those who resist, and do not deny what the Word says in its full context, will break free. The devil will flee.

John 8:32 niv
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Fairy tale concepts of the Word might produce a euphoric sense of release for those who the devil backs off from when they are exposed to false doctrine. The devil is not fleeing. He is simply backing off the suffering he induces. Its a pleasure/pain form of conditioning. It how men train dogs. Yet, those who desire growing in truth must endure the devil's resistance as they press forward to the mark. Then, when happiness arraives, its not a euphoric release. But, one of knowing the happiness of God.

John 17:13-19 niv
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your Word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified."

The Lord wants us to know his joy. But, by believing suffering is always a curse, we can never get to the place where we can know that Joy the Lord spoke of.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[justinstout]

You follow the teachings of Kenneth Copeland, or Hagin?

Not all suffering is a curse. That is where you continue to over simplify God.

1 Peter 2:20 niv
"But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."

You have chopped God up, and only kept the part you want.

1 Peter 4:19 niv
"So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good."

Some even welcomed their sufferings (during times of great apostasy).....

Hebrews 11:35 niv
"Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection."

God does not "want suffering," as you put it. But? ...If we are to faithfully follow after Christ? There must be times when God REQUIRES suffering before we can better know who and what Christ is!

You can not get to know the real Jesus Christ with the blinders you wear. You are looking for a Santa Claus..... Not Christ.

If you do not have times of suffering (as well as expected times of joy) in your life? Then, one would have to assume that you are living in a way that pleases the devil. For he resists only those who are on the path of overcoming evil by fighting for more truth. Its not a case of suffering for simply preaching the Word. But suffering by those who desire to learn the truth which is preached!

James 4:7 niv
"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."


The devil causes suffering to those desiring to grow in grace and knowledge of the Word. Yet, if we resist the devil, and keep taking in more truth? The devil must eventually flee.

Why? We begin to know too much for his own comfort. A mature believer confronting the devil is like giving a condemned man a tour of the electric chair, showing him all the latest advances it now possesses.

He hates a believer knowing a great deal of sound doctrinal truth. That is why he resists all believers who begin desiring to know the Word. A million excuses and seductions are offered along the way. Only those who resist, and do not deny what the Word says in its full context, will break free. The devil will flee.

John 8:32 niv
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Fairy tale concepts of the Word might produce a euphoric sense of release for those who the devil backs off from when they are exposed to false doctrine. The devil is not fleeing. He is simply backing off the suffering he induces. Its a pleasure/pain form of conditioning. It how men train dogs. Yet, those who desire growing in truth must endure the devil's resistance as they press forward to the mark. Then, when happiness arraives, its not a euphoric release. But, one of knowing the happiness of God.

John 17:13-19 niv
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your Word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified."

The Lord wants us to know his joy. But, by believing suffering is always a curse, we can never get to the place where we can know that Joy the Lord spoke of.

In Christ, GeneZ

Thanks for judging me, Mr. GeneZ. How kind of you.

I NEVER stated that ALL suffering is a curse. I appreciate you placing those words in my mouth. Good job.

Please explain to me which of these scriptures that you quoted are referring to suffering sickness and disease. As I've mentioned about a hundred times on these forums, SCRIPTURAL SUFFERING COMES AS A RESULT OF PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. THE APOSTLES NEVER EXPERIENCED SICKNESS OR DISEASE AND CLAIMED IT AS "SUFFERING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE". SICKNESS AND DISEASE IS NOT A RESULT OF PREACHING THE GOSPEL.

Can you do me a huge favor and show me one single scripture in the New Testament where God was glorified through sickness or disease? I've put this challenge out many many times and no one has provided a scripture.

P.S. Paul's thorn is not a valid answer. The theory that Paul's thorn was a sickness or disease has been refuted long ago. Only people with preconceived ideas would pull that out of the Bible that clearly teaches what Paul's thorn actually was. So, keep digging.

 

[DeAnn]

Many call the discipline of God to the believer as not being of God. Rather than being humbled before God's mighty hand. They, instead. Rebuke the devil because of false teachings they have swallowed. They never learn who God really is. Because human reason finds certain ways of God as being repulsive. Divine viewpoint sees the end result desired in God's plan, and accepts both the good and the bad as being a part of this life. If they fully mature, they remain content in and under all circumstances.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

Hi GeneZ, Sin has consequences as true as the law of gravity exists; it is a given that consequences follow actions-whether actions are positive or negative. That in itself is punnishment enough for the individual who choose to follow the path of sin. I don't think our loving Father intentionally and purposely uses the to further punnish his children. Consequences happen-we are already punnished by the consequences. If we don't obey the instruction: Do not touch the stove' and we disobeyed and touch the stove, we will be burnt. That is as true as when you jump from a building you will go down-not go up. We don't need God to purposefully ordain the consequence. However, He will graciously use the experience to teach us painful lessons so that when we are in such a tempting situation again, we will purposefully and willfully choose NOT to touch the stove again. That is God's Grace and Mercy. Thank God for those two!! Thus, we are disciplined in the experience-not intentionally by God but because our consequences are sure to follow and He is alongside to show us where we went wrong. Now, that's a Father.

 

[GraceInHim]

God is longsuffering. God is patient. God is kind.

The picture given that God is very short tempered, very angry and very hostile, seems to be quite the opposite.

Based on the Biblical record, exactly how patient and loving is God?

II Peter 2:4-5 has a number of statements about what God did anciently. To be sure, we see God's wrath on the one hand-but we also see God's patience on the other.

God's Mercy in Ancient Times​

Peter says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment." Notice He did not eternally condemn even the rebellious angels, but deferred their judgment until later.

 

[GenemZ]

Thanks for judging me, Mr. GeneZ. How kind of you.

I NEVER stated that ALL suffering is a curse. I appreciate you placing those words in my mouth. Good job.

Well?

You did , say....

lol


I'm sorry, I can't even reply to this. I've answered this age-old false doctrine of unscriptural suffering many many times on these forums. If you think God wants you suffering something that He calls a CURSE, then knock yourself out! Just don't blame my Father for it.

Since you were unwilling to make yourself clear. And, I have never seen you before this thread. Because, you refused to comminicate. You reaped what you sowed. I find myself repeating themes all the time. Its needed when communicating with people you never had before. It only makes sense.

Please explain to me which of these scriptures that you quoted are referring to suffering sickness and disease.

Job? That guy named, Job?

As I've mentioned about a hundred times on these forums, SCRIPTURAL SUFFERING COMES AS A RESULT OF PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. THE APOSTLES NEVER EXPERIENCED SICKNESS OR DISEASE AND CLAIMED IT AS "SUFFERING FOR CHRIST'S SAKE". SICKNESS AND DISEASE IS NOT A RESULT OF PREACHING THE GOSPEL.

Such suffering not the result of preaching. That's a silly argument. Its because God treats ALL believers equally. He ordains certain ones for suffering , such as disease, as a means to keep certain ones from becoming too proud. In other cases, its to show demons that some believers love God for who God is. Not because of what God can do for us. That is what Job revealed.

Proverbs 18:14
"A man's spirit sustains him in sickness, but a wounded spirit who can bear?"
I brings glory to God that someone can suffer with a disease and not let that stop him from being happy with God. But, if one neglects being faithful to growing in grace and truth? His spirit is wounded. He can not bear the burden that God's grace would have overcome.

There is no glory to God if believers are happy when things go right. Even the world is that way.

And.....


God made sure that Paul preached in Galatia. How? By having Paul become ill. Paul needing to stop for a time in Galatia, to recover.

Galatians 4:13 (New International Version)
"As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you."

Like with Paul, God uses many ways to get us to where he wants us to be. He will even use an illness to have us be in his perfect will, if he wants to. It got Paul to preach in Galatia.

Are you saying that its God's will that no believer ever be ill? If so? By what Scripture are you basing this?

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

God is longsuffering. God is patient. God is kind.

The picture given that God is very short tempered, very angry and very hostile, seems to be quite the opposite.

Believers who suffer is not because God is short tempered. Its not even because God is angry.

Based on the Biblical record, exactly how patient and loving is God?

II Peter 2:4-5 has a number of statements about what God did anciently. To be sure, we see God's wrath on the one hand-but we also see God's patience on the other.

God's Mercy in Ancient Times​

Peter says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment." Notice He did not eternally condemn even the rebellious angels, but deferred their judgment until later.

He did condemn them. That is why they are where they are, awaiting judgement.

Just like Satan will be locked up for a thousand years, and then released for a short while (Revelation 20:7). It has nothing to do with anyone not being condemned. It has to do with God taking the required time to show these ones why they are condemned. So when they are thrown in the Lake of Fire they will never be saying God is mistaken. That God is unjust.

The condemned will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are getting what their thinking and actions deserve. God is not willing to hear one lie about himself coming from the Lake of Fire. When God is done, all in the Lake of Fire will be proclaiming that God is just.

That is why God is patient now with even those whom he condemns. They are all in the process of learning why they deserve what they are to get.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[oworm]

True Biblical suffering comes as a result of preaching the Gospel.

Any other suffering cannot possibly be God's will.

What about the suffering that God the father inflicted on His son?
Matt 26:31, Mark 14:27.
ISA 53:10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer.

Clearly there is a case right there that supports that God does infact cause suffering which is not as a result of preaching the gospel!

 

[DeAnn]

You mean we are not in his original plan? That God had another plan for mankind and angels? God knew before the foundation of the world that Christ would suffer. He knew this before man was even created.

Of course we are in his Original plan..but we were not in his original plan as depraved people rejecting his love and turning away from His presence. That is who we have become because of sin. No wonder He has to see Christ in us. That is the reason Christ instructed us to do everything in His Name because that is the only name or person that God will recognize. Sin cannot dwell in his presence. God cannot look upon sin.(I am not diminishing the fact that we are made in the image of God and that we are less worthy, but we were indeed born in sin)
He designed us for relationship with Him. That was his original plan-a sinless generation of people who enjoyed His presence as much as he enjoys being in their presence.
Yes he knew Christ would suffer. He also knew we would suffer-hence the coming of Christ. Christ is God's 'grace and mercy' in the flesh. The Cross is the emblem of hope for mankind. The Cross is the reality and fulfillment of hope that we do not have to lose hope and faith because Christ has already borne it all suffering on himself. That is why we are able to learn from our pain and suffering and use it as a stepping stone(by God's grace) instead of wallowing in self pity.

 

[Sabertooth]

If you all are really only saying God ALLOWS and not that it is part of Gods plan and he causes it to happen, you are saying the same thing we are. He gave us a totally free will and allows us to make choices...

Like I quoted earlier about Joseph and his brothers, it was truly their animosity that drove them against him. But God saw fit to release them in it instead of blocking it. God was not responsible for their sin or Mrs. Potiphar's, but He ALLOWED those crimes and made thorough use of them on Joseph's behalf. Joseph even acknowledges God's active hand in his troubles in Genesis 50:20. So even though God is not guilty of kidnapping, attempted rape and perjury, He used them all to get Joseph where [and how] He wanted him to be.

 

[oworm]

Is Everything That Happens God’s Will?


Yes!


PR 16:4 The LORD works out everything for his own ends--

even the wicked for a day of disaster.


EPH 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,


JOB 23:14 He carries out his decree against me,

and many such plans he still has in store


PS 33:11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever,

the purposes of his heart through all generations


PR 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course,

but the LORD determines his steps

PR 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart,but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

PS 139:16 your eyes saw my unformed body.

All the days ordained for me

were written in your book

before one of them came to be.



Scripture is absolutely crystal clear that the Lord is Sovereign and works out EVERYTHING in conformity to His decreed will!