Is Everything That Happens God’s Will?

[oworm]

It's the Word of God, Jim.

But not as we know it!

Sorry, couldn't resist that little trekkie

 

[pinkieposies]

Well, I thought I would put in my two cents here, and share some scriptures {I apologize if they have already been posted to death }.

Is everything that happens in God's will? {Even sin and suffering?}

Yes!

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
{Romans 9:21}

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
{Isaiah 45:7}

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
{Proverbs 16:4}

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.
{II Thessalonians 2:11,12}

Therefore they could not believe...He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart.
{John 12:39,40}

For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts...That He might destroy them utterly.
{Joshua 11:20}

I hope it is of some small benifet.

God Bless,
Erin

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Since it is scripture you want. Let me post from the second reading we had today. It surely shows God's desire for us and shows he allows us to follow it.

II Peter CH 3:

8 6 7 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard "delay," but he is patient with you, NOT WISHING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, 8 and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out.
11 9 Since everything is to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought (you) to be, conducting yourselves in holiness and devotion,
12 10 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in flames and the elements melted by fire.
13 But according to his promise we await new heavens and a new earth 11 in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you await these things, be eager to be found without spot or blemish before him, at peace.
15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16 speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
17 Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.
18 But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity. (Amen.)

 

[justinstout]

Well, I thought I would put in my two cents here, and share some scriptures {I apologize if they have already been posted to death }.

Is everything that happens in God's will? {Even sin and suffering?}

Yes!

Not true.

These scriptures have that you provided have been posted [out of context] "to death". The request was for NEW Covenant scriptures anyways. The blank sheet of paper in your Bible is not the only thing that separates the Old and the New Covenant. Claiming that everything that happens is God's will is holding God ultimately responsible for every sin, perversion, atrocity, birth defect, abortion, homosexual lifestyle, etc. If everything that happens is God's will, then why are you contradicting what I've been teaching? If God didn't will for me to teach these truths on here, it wouldn't have happened! If everything that happens is God's will, then why do you resist the devil? God might want to use him to "teach you a lesson"!!

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
{Romans 9:21}

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
{Isaiah 45:7}

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
{Proverbs 16:4}

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.
{II Thessalonians 2:11,12}

Therefore they could not believe...He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart.
{John 12:39,40}

For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts...That He might destroy them utterly.
{Joshua 11:20}

I hope it is of some small benifet.

God Bless,
Erin

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.
{II Thessalonians 2:11,12}

The Lord would never just give a person a strong delusion that would keep him from receiving salvation. The Lord is "not willing that any perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9). But when people reject the truth He has shown them, in a sense, they are choosing deception by their own free will; He is just enforcing their own decisions. This only happens to men who don't love the truth.
This is all the more reason why we need to seek the Lord while He may be found and call upon Him while He is near (Isa. 55:6). We don't know when the mercies of the Lord will cease and this delusion will come. We must love the truth and never willfully reject it.

Therefore they could not believe...He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart.
{John 12:39,40}

Verses 38-40 could be interpreted as teaching the ultimate in predestination. That interpretation would be that these people were never given the opportunity to believe because of Isaiah's prophecies. However, the Word of God makes it clear that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:13); "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" (Rev. 3:20); and "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17). No one has ever been denied the opportunity to accept salvation (Ti. 2:11).
Mark 6:5 says that "he (Jesus) could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them." In that instance, it is evident that the reason Jesus couldn't do any mighty work was not because He didn't possess the power, but because He chose not to use that power against a person's will. He couldn't perform the mighty works because of His decision to be holy and just and to uphold our freedom of choice.

Likewise, these Jews could not believe because of their choice to reject Jesus. The same Greek work is used in Mark 6:5 to say that Jesus could do no mighty work as is used in this verse to say that these Jews could not believe. They could not believe because they chose not to believe. "They stumbled at that stumblingstone" (Rom. 9:32), which was Jesus.

Isaiah did not predestine them to this fate, but rather saw that very few would receive the report (Isa. 53:1) about the Messiah, and would therefore be kept from the knowledge of salvation because they rejected Him in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are found (Col. 2:3). This is what Isaiah prophesied, and it came to pass.

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
{Romans 9:21}

Paul is drawing an illustration from an Old Testament passage of scripture from Jeremiah 18:3-6 (see Parallel Scriptures, p. 810). In that passage, God sent Jeremiah to the potter's house to learn a lesson. The potter was making a vessel and it was marred, so he remade it. The Lord spoke to Jeremiah and said, "O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? . . . Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."
From this illustration, some people have drawn a wrong conclusion that the Lord creates some people evil and predestined to a life of damnation, not by their choice, but by God's. However, a closer look at the passage in Jeremiah and its context will show that is not the case.

First of all, the potter started to create a good vessel but the clay was marred. Whose fault was that? It wasn't the potter's fault. The clay was faulty. So, the potter took this imperfect clay and, instead of discarding it, he refashioned it into another vessel that may not have been worth nearly as much as his original design, but was still useful.

Likewise, the Lord does not create certain individuals for destruction, However, some do become marred by their own choice, not due to any fault of the Creator. Instead of just removing them from the earth, the Lord will endure (v. 22) their atrocities. He may even put them in great positions of authority such as He did with Pharaoh, so that He may manifest His great power through His victory over them and their devices. God can still use someone who has rejected Him in the same way that a potter can take a marred piece of clay and find some use for it.

It can be clearly seen that the Lord does not do these things against the will of the individual by continuing to read the context of Jeremiah's experience with the potter. In verses 7-10, the Lord says that when He purposes evil or good against a nation, if that nation repents, then God will change His plans for them. That undeniably states that our choice influences God's choice.

 

[GenemZ]

This verse was tranlated way before the "WOF" teachers (as you claim) were even born. Only someone totally ignorant of the original Hebrew would say that "griefs" and "sorrows" shouldn't be translated "sicknesses" and "pains".


Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. (WEB)

But it was our pain he took, and our diseases were put on him: while to us he seemed as one diseased, on whom God's punishment had come. (BBE)
Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (JPS)

But the fact is, it was our pains he carried-- our disfigurements, all the things wrong with us. (MSG)

Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. (AMP)

Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured.. (NAB)

Surely he has borne our infirmities and carried our diseases; yet we accounted him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted. (NRSV)



I guess this was just a joke. Or maybe God didn't mean to place sickness and disease on Jesus. Must have been an accident. I guess it's just a coincidence that the very next verse is clearly discussing the Atonement of our Lord for the sins of mankind.

He did not accomplish that on the Cross, dear sir. That was saying how wonderful he was, AND THEY CRUCIFIED HIM ANYWAY!

That's the point that this passage speaks of. Its a character reference! Not something he fulfilled on the Cross! He fulfilled that passage BEFORE HE GOT TO THE CROSS!

Matthew 8:14-17 niv
"When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.

This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
"He took up our infirmities
and carried our diseases."

That part of Isaiah 53 was fulfilled on that day in Matthew 8, before he ever got to the Cross! Not, on the Cross as some form of healing in the atonement!

Isaiah 53 is speaking of the one who healed the sick. This wonderful person! Yet, men deemed him worthy of death! Isaiah 53, speaks of a character reference! Not something he accomplished on the Cross!

nasb
"This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: "HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES." (Mathhew 8:17)

amplified bible
"And thus He fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, He Himself took [in order to carry away] our weaknesses and infirmities and bore away our diseases." (Mathew 8:17)

Isaiah 53:4, says.....

"Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted. "

In other words? It is saying to us... " Here is this wonderful man who healed people! Yet, men considered him hated by God and to be punished! "

There was no healing in the atonement mentioned in that passage in Isaiah. It speaks of what was fulfilled by Christ in Matthew 8:17! It was not fulfilled on the Cross while he was dying! But, BEFORE! In Matthew 8;17!

Isaiah 53 speaks of what he FULFILLED before he got to the Cross! Not something he arranged to create into a new means for healing while on the Cross!

Matthew 8:14-17 niv
"When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever. He touched her hand and the fever left her, and she got up and began to wait on him.

When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.

This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
"He took up our infirmities
and carried our diseases."


It says it was fulfilled that day! Not on the Cross!

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

You've got to be kidding me.

So.. instead of using His Word as He instructed He would do.. God is now using curses as "blessings" in our lives to teach us and train us as believers.

You've just slapped Jesus on one side of His face.
What claim are you going to use to slap Him on the other side?

Like I said. Its a sadistic teaching. You are completely oblivious to those who do suffer, and it is saying its their own fault for their infirmaries that they were even born with. Why? Because they do not have the faith to be healed.

I have watched (and know) those who teach such things. They can be cruel and smug in the light of what Scripture truly teaches. Yet, those who do not have the infirmaries? They celebrate and cheer. It is you who are slapping Jesus in the face (if you could). He won't let you. Those days are over.

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[oworm]

These scriptures have that you provided have been posted [out of context] "to death".

Kettle pot black. Its rather amusing but quite sad that you accuse people of quoting scripture out of context but you yourself do the very same thing as is evident below.

The Lord is "not willing that any perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9). .

You have been consistently shown in previous posts that you are twisting this text and ripping it from its context to fit your anthropocentric doctrine. You are so obviously and selectively blind to the clear teaching of this text. You claim to come hear to teach but you cannot divide the word of truth (2Tim2:15) You do know that those who teach will be judged more strictly?

Also,by separating the OT from the NT and implicitly stateing that OT quotes supporting a view opposed to yours is irrelevent is more evidence of your tearing the bible to pieces and throwing out what you dont like.
When Jesus reffered to the scriptures to what was He reffering?
When Paul reffered to and quoted from scripture,where do you think he was quoting from?
What was Paul reffering to when he exhorted Timothy to " continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." ?(2Tim 3:14,15)

When Timothy was an infant there was no NT. In fact when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy there was no NT. Any time Holy Scripture is reffered to or quoted from in the NT it is the OT that is being quoted and taught from.

Instead of rightly dividing the word of truth you are dividing the word of truth. When Paul said "ALL scripture is God breathed" etc etc, to what was he reffering? And why did Jesus say He was the same yesterday,today and forever? Surely the teaching in the OT is as relevent to our understading of who God is and how he deals with his creation as the NT is! The new covenant is a further revealing of what the old covenant set out to accomplish!!

"ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED" ALL SCRIPTURE MEANS ALL SCRIPTURE

 

[linssue55]

From BookWorm........
"ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED" ALL SCRIPTURE MEANS ALL SCRIPTURE

Yes, Yes.....


"The "word"of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the didviding usunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. "All" scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction forinstructions in righteouness, that the man of God might be mature, thouroughly furnished unto all good works. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamded, rightly dividing the word of truth".

 

[justinstout]

Yes, Yes.....


"The "word"of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the didviding usunder, the soul and the spirit, the joints of the marrow, and is the thought and critic and intense of the heart. "All" scripture is God breathed, and is profitable, for doctrine, for re-proof, for correction forinstructions in righteouness, that the man of God might be mature, thouroughly furnished unto all good works. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamded, rightly dividing the word of truth".

Yes, praise God... it's great to see that the SCRIPTURES are used for correction, re-proof, doctrine, instruction in righteousness... that the man of God might be mature. I don't see anything in there about God using sickness! It's only the Scriptures!!!

Great post, Linssue55

 

[linssue55]

Yes, praise God... it's great to see that the SCRIPTURES are used for correction, re-proof, doctrine, instruction in righteousness... that the man of God might be mature. I don't see anything in there about God using sickness! It's only the Scriptures!!!

Great post, Linssue55

just like Jim said......

"All" scripture is God breathed,.........this "INCLUDES" the Old testement. Or as before, are you going to say the words of the Lord in the OT mean "NOTHING"?, because we are now in the church age?.

The "ENTIRE" bible, "ALL" of it, is as God breathed it.

This the final......Justinstout,....... is on Ignore.......bye

 

[justinstout]

.

 

[GenemZ]

.

I can just see Jesus doing that after making a point against those opposing the truth.

Like I said, you have all these folks here that are walking with Christ and have diseases they had nothing to do with, yet they love the Lord. And, all you can do is to say they are spiritual retards. Then give a thumbs up when they decide to have nothing to do with you. Amazing what love for the infirm your teaching produces. It appears to be hypocritical to me. Matter of fact. It is.

You show absolutely no compassion for those who possess physical conditions that some were even born with. Paul only healed in the beginning of his ministry. This is because God provided him with signs and wonders to reveal to others that he was working for God.

Acts 19:11-12 (New International Version)
"God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them."


But, later on? When his name was established? God removed this gift! Paul was to be accepted upon what he taught. And, he did not teach healing in the atonement, nor did any NT writer. Signs and wonders beckoned in the new age of the Church. Once established, they were faded out. For truth was to become the issue. Not sensationalism to draw people in.

2 Timothy 4:19-21 (New International Version)
"Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus. Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus. Do your best to get here before winter. Eubulus greets you, and so do Pudens, Linus, Claudia and all the brothers."

Why did Paul not heal Trophimus? Why did not Paul lecture on the healing in the atonement? Because healing was a temporary gift given to establish Paul as being from God. Paul was well established. And, now the Word was to be the issue. Not sign gifts.

Philippians 2:25-27 (New International Version)
"But I think it is necessary to send back to you Epaphroditus, my brother, fellow worker and fellow soldier, who is also your messenger, whom you sent to take care of my needs. For he longs for all of you and is distressed because you heard he was ill. Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow."

If there were healing in the atonement, Paul would have been confident, not sorrowful. God showed mercy on them. Mercy, because there were no guarantees of any healing in the atonement!

1 Timothy 5:23 niv
"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

Where is any teaching on how God wanted Timothy healed? Paul offered a natural remedy. Not any teaching like you like to push on us. And, Paul was one who knew what it meant to heal others supernaturally by simply touching a handkerchief and sending it to the ill.

Here he was , no longer able to heal anyone. And, never teaching about healing in the atonement. For no such teaching exists,as I showed you.

Can you see what I wrote? Maybe you need a healing? A real healing. A spiritual healing. So, you will stop being blind to what the Word does tell us in its context. Healed of cutting and deleting Scriptures to make your gimmick teaching appear to be valid.

And, there will be faith healers today who appear to supernaturally heal the infirm. Yet, this is evil. Its demons choosing to leave a body , or to stop inflicting infirmary they cause directly. They choose to because they want to win naive and stupid believers over to false doctrines so they can never grow up and mature in Christ. These false teachers are amongst us. Jesus warned against them.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "

These ones doing all these supernatural wonders IN JESUS NAME? Jesus will tell them that HE NEVER KNEW THEM! They were not even saved!

Yet they taught healing in the atonement and healed many! Not saying that those duped by their teaching are not saved. They are. Just robbed of the truth of who and what Christ really is. Which is...

If Christ does not heal, Christ in our hearts is bigger than the disease! That in spite of disease, we can be happier than a person who is relatively healthy!


THAT! Glorifies Christ! And, angers demons.

GeneZ

 

[justinstout]

We will for you. (maybe).

To be honest.. there are many people that I do not want praying for me.

So, thanks for the offer, but please do not.

 

[GenemZ]

To be honest.. there are many people that I do not want praying for me.

So, thanks for the offer, but please do not.

Go back and read that post again. I changed it right after posting it. But, you responded the second it was posted. That was only a thought that entered my mind. But, I realize that the Word says there are those we are not to pray for, so I removed it.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[justinstout]

Go back and read that post again. I changed it right after posting it. But, you responded the second it was posted. That was only a thought that entered my mind. But, I realize that the Word says there are those we are not to pray for, so I removed it.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

Stop blaming my Father.

He's never the source of our problems and He's not the one "allowing" them for a reason.

Sickness and disease are never God's will.



I thank my Father that His Word is always more than enough. He will not and does not need to use sickness and disease to "teach me a lesson." I thank Him that His Word is more than enough to "keep me in line" and keep me "close to Him"

Thank you, Jesus!

 

[frumanchu]

Closed at author's request.