Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Floatingaxe]

Could you show me a scripture about Christ being glorified flesh? As far as I'm aware, He is the Holy Spirit.

No the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is God in the flesh. He rose again after 3 days in the tomb and received a new constitution--glorified. He was able to walk through walls, appear from one place to the next as though walking through a portal. One plane to another plane of existence. When He ascended, He rose BODILY. IN HIS FLESH. That is how we shall be.

The Holy Spirit came a few weeks later.

 

[Floatingaxe]

That leans on the calvinist side there and I agree with this, however it says in Romans 1 that they are without excuse...so they still don't deserve the priviledge of refinement.

Only the righteous receive refinement.

 

[Cassidy]

Spiritual fire? Where did that come from? Waxing poetic?

What does "waxing poetic" mean?

Anyway Holy Spirit and fire comes from here....

16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

 

[Cassidy]

No the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is God in the flesh. He rose again after 3 days in the tomb and received a new constitution--glorified. He was able to walk through walls, appear from one place to the next as though walking through a portal. One plane to another plane of existence. When He ascended, He rose BODILY. IN HIS FLESH. That is how we shall be.

The Holy Spirit came a few weeks later.

Wouldn't this go into trinity country?? LOL I understand that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, but when we receive the Holy Spirit, do we not receive Jesus also? Into our hearts? How can that be if he's still flesh?

Can you show me a scripture that says that Jesus is still flesh?

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I know it doesn't say that Jesus is a spirit 'specifically' but the spirit of life? Isn't Jesus the way the truth and the life? Then it says, the spirit of life IN Christ Jesus...so this spirit of life IS IN Jesus...so this spirit that we have which made us fre...is in Christ Jesus, which would have one to conclude that Christ Jesus is the spirit of life, which is in us...since he is life!

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that which is flesh and flesh that which is spirit is spirit.

 

[Cassidy]

Oh oh oh and then it says....

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So he IS a spirit...it is the spirit of Christ that we have.

 

[brinny]

 

[Cassidy]

If that wonderful parable is yelling at you--it is the Holy Spirit telling you to listen. Stop and listen to Him. The truth is in there.

Yep I listen

 

[Floatingaxe]

What does "waxing poetic" mean?

Anyway Holy Spirit and fire comes from here....

16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Re:

And I just can't see how, since our spiritual bodies are filled with a spiritual fire that they can't be thrown into a spiritual fire, since they are spirit.

Your reference to baptism by fire is not to do with this. God can certainly throw people with spiritual bodies into a "heavenly" created sulfuric fire. After all, Sodom's demise was of "heavenly" origin.

What do you think a spiritual body consists of? Will it have mass? We have no way of knowing, and to discount what God says He will do is not warranted based on ignorance of a matter.

 

[HEisGoodalways]

Wouldn't this go into trinity country?? LOL I understand that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, but when we receive the Holy Spirit, do we not receive Jesus also? Into our hearts? How can that be if he's still flesh?

Can you show me a scripture that says that Jesus is still flesh?

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I know it doesn't say that Jesus is a spirit 'specifically' but the spirit of life? Isn't Jesus the way the truth and the life? Then it says, the spirit of life IN Christ Jesus...so this spirit of life IS IN Jesus...so this spirit that we have which made us fre...is in Christ Jesus, which would have one to conclude that Christ Jesus is the spirit of life, which is in us...since he is life!

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that which is flesh and flesh that which is spirit is spirit.

When Jesus rose from the dead His body was tranformed into a glorified spiritual body

After he ascended into heaven His Holy Spirit was sent to indwell us, His church, the body of Christ, and we, the many membered body of Christ, who is our spiritual head, is being manifested to the world more and more, for we are the true sons and daughters of God

Rom 8:18
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Wouldn't this go into trinity country?? LOL I understand that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, but when we receive the Holy Spirit, do we not receive Jesus also? Into our hearts? How can that be if he's still flesh?

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, and of the Son, but He is a third Person of the Godhead.

Can you show me a scripture that says that Jesus is still flesh?

Mark 16:19
When the Lord Jesus had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.

Luke 24:50-51
Then Jesus led them to Bethany, and lifting his hands to heaven, he blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up to heaven.

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I know it doesn't say that Jesus is a spirit 'specifically' but the spirit of life? Isn't Jesus the way the truth and the life? Then it says, the spirit of life IN Christ Jesus...so this spirit of life IS IN Jesus...so this spirit that we have which made us fre...is in Christ Jesus, which would have one to conclude that Christ Jesus is the spirit of life, which is in us...since he is life!

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, that which is flesh and flesh that which is spirit is spirit.

Right. That is why God changes us into glorified flesh. We will need physical bodies which will also be indestructable in order to live and govern this earth.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Oh oh oh and then it says....

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So he IS a spirit...it is the spirit of Christ that we have.

Yes, but He represents Jesus Christ. He represents God the Father. He is called the Spirit of Christ and also the Spirit of God. But He is a third Person of the Triune God.

 

[Cassidy]

Re:
Your reference to baptism by fire is not to do with this. God can certainly throw people with spiritual bodies into a "heavenly" created sulfuric fire. After all, Sodom's demise was of "heavenly" origin.

What do you think a spiritual body consists of? Will it have mass? We have no way of knowing, and to discount what God says He will do is not warranted based on ignorance of a matter.

I'm not understanding what you mean here, it sounds like you agree with me but the manner in which you write says that you don't. And you say "to discount what God says..." like I'm the one doing it. I'm showing you what the bible says and you're saying that I'm ignorant. I don't understand.

I don't know what the spirit will consist of...but it won't be flesh because it says in the bible that flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God so how am I discounting what God says here?

I ask you to give me a scripture that says the Christ is still flesh and you haven't done that, instead you say that I'm the one discounting what God says...but how?? I go by what the bible says.

Maybe you're not meaning me when you say these things but because you are saying them in reference to my post then I can only assume that you are meaning me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not here to argue with you, I'm here to discuss and it's through discussion is how I learn.

 

[Cassidy]

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, and of the Son, but He is a third Person of the Godhead.

Yes I fully understand that

Mark 16:19
When the Lord Jesus had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.

Luke 24:50-51
Then Jesus led them to Bethany, and lifting his hands to heaven, he blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up to heaven.[\quote]

That doesn't show me that he is flesh. It shows me that he walked around and was seen, but it doesn't say he was flesh and blood.

Right. That is why God changes us into glorified flesh. We will need physical bodies which will also be indestructable in order to live and govern this earth.

But see I still can't see that we are flesh. I think we have glorified BODIES sure, but I can't see how we are flesh like we are today.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

This is actually one of my all time favourite scriptures! I actually want it said at my funeral when I die, but...there is nothing there that states that we are transformed into flesh! It just says transformed. And since the bible says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit...there doesn't seem to be a middle ground here, you are either flesh or spirit!

 

[Cassidy]

Yes, but He represents Jesus Christ. He represents God the Father. He is called the Spirit of Christ and also the Spirit of God. But He is a third Person of the Triune God.

He's the third person and yet he is still the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. You cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit without being filled with Christ or with God...since they are all one.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm not understanding what you mean here, it sounds like you agree with me but the manner in which you write says that you don't. And you say "to discount what God says..." like I'm the one doing it. I'm showing you what the bible says and you're saying that I'm ignorant. I don't understand.

NO, I don't insult you by saying you are ignorant, friend! I am saying that people in general who discount God's message to us about that "fire" are ignorant of the facts--the Word of God is silent on the details.

It is a fire that God has created for Satan and his angels--and He will send humans there too--whether they be spiritual bodies, whatever that means, or physically renewed to face God and endure torment.

I don't know what the spirit will consist of...but it won't be flesh because it says in the bible that flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God so how am I discounting what God says here?

Yes, flesh and blood as we have now--but flesh and blood glorified, as Jesus is now, is exactly how we shall be. That's a fact. Our perishable puts on unperishable.

1 Corinthians 15:42
So it is with the resurrection of the dead. [The body] that is sown is perishable and decays, but [the body] that is resurrected is imperishable (immune to decay, immortal).

I ask you to give me a scripture that says the Christ is still flesh and you haven't done that, instead you say that I'm the one discounting what God says...but how?? I go by what the bible says.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is.

Maybe you're not meaning me when you say these things but because you are saying them in reference to my post then I can only assume that you are meaning me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. No, I don't mean you.

I'm not here to argue with you, I'm here to discuss and it's through discussion is how I learn.

I see that, and you're doing well!

 

[Floatingaxe]

That doesn't show me that he is flesh. It shows me that he walked around and was seen, but it doesn't say he was flesh and blood.

He was flesh and blood, yet glorified. Resurrected as we shall be...able to walk around, walk through walls like He did, and still eat and drink and do the physical things that this life requires--why? because we will need those imperishable, yet physical bodies to rule with Chriust here in the New Jerusalem for a millennium.

The disciples saw Him and ate with Him and talked with Him--and then He just kifted uo and ascended into Heaven. No change in Him, for He was already changed upon His resurrection.



But see I still can't see that we are flesh. I think we have glorified BODIES sure, but I can't see how we are flesh like we are today.

This is actually one of my all time favourite scriptures! I actually want it said at my funeral when I die, but...there is nothing there that states that we are transformed into flesh! It just says transformed. And since the bible says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit...there doesn't seem to be a middle ground here, you are either flesh or spirit!

Transformed means changed. yes, we are transformed into incorruptible flesh. The way we were meant to be! As Adam and Eve were before the fall, before death was pronounced.

 

[Floatingaxe]

He's the third person and yet he is still the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. You cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit without being filled with Christ or with God...since they are all one.

There's no need arguing this subject matter. We are filled with the Holy Spirit when He baptizes us with His power. That's His job.

 

[Cassidy]

NO, I don't insult you by saying you are ignorant, friend! I am saying that people in general who discount God's message to us about that "fire" are ignorant of the facts--the Word of God is silent on the details.

Ok that's fine

It is a fire that God has created for Satan and his angels--and He will send humans there too--whether they be spiritual bodies, whatever that means, or physically renewed to face God and endure torment.

Well whatever's going to happen is going to happen whether we have it right or wrong. All I know is that I don't wan anything to do with any form of torment so I'm sticking with Jesus right now

Yes, flesh and blood as we have now--but flesh and blood glorified, as Jesus is now, is exactly how we shall be. That's a fact. Our perishable puts on unperishable.

But it doesn't differentiate (sp?) between flesh we have now or glorified flesh, you are assuming that that's what it means. I'd rather not assume and just stick to what is said.

1 Corinthians 15:42
So it is with the resurrection of the dead. [The body] that is sown is perishable and decays, but [the body] that is resurrected is imperishable (immune to decay, immortal).

But whatever the 'body' is made up of, I don't think it's flesh, or it would say that that's what it was.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is.

[\quote]

yeh well, as it says there, it's not made clear.

I just don't see anything in the scriptures to say that we will be flesh glorified. Bodies that a gloried yes...but I don't think it will be flesh though...there's nothing in scripture that even says as much.

Now....that's not to say that I think you're wrong...I don't know, I'm merely exploring what you are saying and comparing it with scripture.

However...

There is one thing that you said about Adam and Eve that has plucked up my ears...and something that I endevour to explore further. The Adam and Eve point is a good one, I'll have to sit and meditate on that for a bit and see what pops up

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. No, I don't mean you.


yes see that, and you're doing well!

awwww

 

[Floatingaxe]

Well whatever's going to happen is going to happen whether we have it right or wrong. All I know is that I don't wan anything to do with any form of torment so I'm sticking with Jesus right now

ttyl, brother!

 

[Yekcidmij]

Its a spiritual body and spiritual fire

When Jesus rose from the dead His body was tranformed into a glorified spiritual body

I think I pointed it out to someone yesterday, but the resurrection is physical. Jesus physically and bodily rose and we too will physically bodily raise. This "spiritual body" mess is gnostic garbage.

The resurrection of the dead, including Jesus's resurrection, is a physical, bodily resurrection.

I think this is one of the major problems. You deny an actual resurrection and so develop this doctrine where spirits are transiting from hell to heaven in the afterlife.