Is Everybody going to heaven?

[HighwayMan]

Universalism is the ugliest and most vile doctrine devised by Satan today.

....right next to those pesky new laws that outlaw witch-burning and stoning to death, right?

 

[Floatingaxe]

But I just gave you 20 reasons why that is NOT true. It seems that you believe that everyone on Earth is sitting in a classroom being thought the Bible and then giving the time to decide whether to believe it or not. This is just completely absurd. There are third world countries, poor 2nd world counties, even many people in 1st world countries who never get a fair chance.

Everyone has a chance to know God, because God gives it to them. He says so. Read the Scripture I posted.

This is a thread discussing whether all will see heaven or not...not about whether God is good or not. You may start your own thread in another forum if you so wish. Thanks. Try in Unorthodox Theology.

Nowhere is this found in the Bible. And the whole "age of accountability" idea anyway is filled with large enough gaps of logic and reason to drive a truck through.

OK if you choose to believe that God will damn innocent children who don't even realize what sin is yet, that's your complete right. But when Jesus tells me that "such (children) are the Kingdom of heaven", then I believe Him. When King David declares that he will see his dead baby son again, then I know that God redeems the innocents.

I realize the general sense here is to continue "fighting for your faith no matter what you hear" but the truth is you are defying basic human reason, which God gave you for a purpose - to use it. No matter how much you try to cram it in, 2 + 2 will never make 5.

Human reason is overshadowed by God's supernatural truths. He is God. He desires to know me. I am reconciled to Him in relationship, and in an empowered life, and it is all about Him and His love. It's what life is all about.

 

[enoch son]

So God is dumb when He say's "ALL WILL KNOW ME"

 

[enoch son]

This is the Spirit-filled/Charismatic forum.

btw: God gives EVERYONE a chance to know the truth of Jesus. Children are not sent to Hell--they are under the blood of Jesus until they come to the time in life where they realize their need to repent of sin.

CHAPTHER AND VER. PLEASE?

 

[enoch son]

Everyone has a chance to know God, because God gives it to them. He says so. Read the Scripture I posted.

This is a thread discussing whether all will see heaven or not...not about whether God is good or not. You may start your own thread in another forum if you so wish. Thanks. Try in Unorthodox Theology.

OK if you choose to believe that God will damn innocent children who don't even realize what sin is yet, that's your complete right. But when Jesus tells me that "such (children) are the Kingdom of heaven", then I believe Him. When King David declares that he will see his dead baby son again, then I know that God redeems the innocents.

Human reason is overshadowed by God's supernatural truths. He is God. He desires to know me. I am reconciled to Him in relationship, and in an empowered life, and it is all about Him and His love. It's what life is all about.

You mean when He say's "MY WAY ARE NOT YOUR WAYS"?

 

[enoch son]

...I thought this thread was about discussion, not computer-generated responses.

This might sound quite arrogant, and I really don't often say this, but if you honestly believe in hell and at the same time that the God behind it is good - then you have no idea how the world works. None whatsoever. Your God is not just burning murderers. Or non-believers. He's burning children, he's burning people who've never even had the chance to hear of the Bible, he's burning those who have heard only bits and parts and haven't been presented with a convincing enough reason to believe, he's burning those who have been taught negative things about Christianity and have had no way of figuring out the truth, and he is burning even those who claim to be Christian but aren't really because they haven't had the luck to pick the right church, and therefore did not believe in the same version of God and Jesus and have been following a false image. All in all, the vast majority of creation.

If in your mind you can find some possible way to twist words such as "perfect, just, righteous, holy" into this, well, I really do not know what to say except brainwashing is a highly effective tool which many churches have perfected.

Then one can say if God is not love alot of hate fill, self righteous christian are in big trouble. Come to think of it I read alot of their post here.

 

[enoch son]

Stop distracting. No it has not come down.

Heb. chapther 12 say's were wrong.

 

[enoch son]

That is a deflection. The New Jerusalem is yet to come.

Agian Heb. chapther 12 say's your wrong. This is to easy.

 

[enoch son]

We are His temple, but confusing matters by calling us the New Jerusalem when we are discussing the fact that The New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to earth after the GWT Judgment--after the wicked have been sent to their damnation forever, and we will forever be with God, is unconscionable.

There is no good argument for Universalism, because it is based on very poor exegesis and worst of all--wishful thinking and fantasy that confuses and deceives.

Again--out of context references, which are the order of the day with Universalists!

Agian Heb. 12 say's your are wrong. I wish you would qoute the word and not your mind.

 

[enoch son]

Truth is sister, we are in the New Jerusalem now in the Spirit, and we are His temple in the New Jerusalem now, living stones(us), being built up His spiritual house, us, individually and corparately in the Spirit of the living God!!

!Peter 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Heb. chapther 12;22-23 say's you are RIGHT!

 

[brinny]

But I just gave you 20 reasons why that is NOT true. It seems that you believe that everyone on Earth is sitting in a classroom being thought the Bible and then giving the time to decide whether to believe it or not. This is just completely absurd. There are third world countries, poor 2nd world counties, even many people in 1st world countries who never get a fair chance.




Nowhere is this found in the Bible. And the whole "age of accountability" idea anyway is filled with large enough gaps of logic and reason to drive a truck through.

I realize the general sense here is to continue "fighting for your faith no matter what you hear" but the truth is you are defying basic human reason, which God gave you for a purpose - to use it. No matter how much you try to cram it in, 2 + 2 will never make 5.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. ~Proverbs 3:5-6

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. ~Matthew 19:14

Two things come to mind when i read these verses and it is this....that being "as a little child" involves trust, unwaveringly, and taking what God says in His Word to heart (taking His Word for it that He says just what He means) ...thus, being child-like in our approach to Him.

 

[enoch son]

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. ~Proverbs 3:5-6

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. ~Matthew 19:14

Two things come to mind when i read these verses and it is this....that being "as a little child" involves trust, unwaveringly, and taking what God says in His Word to heart (taking His Word for it that He says just what He means) ...thus, being child-like in our approach to Him.

You mean works don't you? God forbid if you don't do that?

 

[brinny]

hi enoch son....not sure what you mean

 

[HighwayMan]

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. ~Proverbs 3:5-6

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. ~Matthew 19:14

Two things come to mind when i read these verses and it is this....that being "as a little child" involves trust, unwaveringly, and taking what God says in His Word to heart (taking His Word for it that He says just what He means) ...thus, being child-like in our approach to Him.

this is getting crazier and crazier.

You do realize that everything anyone has ever believed about the Bible or any book is based on human understanding? Even these claims about creationism and hell are nothing but an interpretation made by ancient priests who have managed to spread it to the masses.

And if you believe that being child-like means abandoning any reasonable thought you might have and blindly bowing down to an image of God which by any sane understanding makes him a monster, than this is religious extremism, which has been the cause of most of the great suffering in this world. It is dangerous, it is destructive, it drives people away from God, and most of all it does not fit with the positive image of God the Bible tries to establish.

I see though that it really is useless to argue against such fanaticism, because you seem to believe the more you reject reason, the "stronger" you are and the more you make God happy. "Forget that 90% of his creation is burning in hell, be child-like and just praise how awesome this God is!!" It's the mentality shared by those people that picket soldiers' funerals. I do not understand how such thinking can thrive in the 21st century.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. ~Proverbs 3:5-6

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. ~Matthew 19:14

Two things come to mind when i read these verses and it is this....that being "as a little child" involves trust, unwaveringly, and taking what God says in His Word to heart (taking His Word for it that He says just what He means) ...thus, being child-like in our approach to Him.

this is getting crazier and crazier.

You do realize that everything anyone has ever believed about the Bible or any book is based on human understanding? Even these claims about creationism and hell are nothing but an interpretation made by ancient priests who have managed to spread it to the masses.

And if you believe that being child-like means abandoning any reasonable thought you might have and blindly bowing down to an image of God which by any sane understanding makes him a monster, than this is religious extremism, which has been the cause of most of the great suffering in this world. It is dangerous, it is destructive, it drives people away from God, and most of all it does not fit with the positive image of God the Bible tries to establish.

I see though that it really is useless to argue against such fanaticism, because you seem to believe the more you reject reason, the "stronger" you are and the more you make God happy. "Forget that 90% of his creation is burning in hell, be child-like and just praise how awesome this God is!!" It's the mentality shared by those people that picket soldiers' funerals. I do not understand how such thinking can thrive in the 21st century.

well there now, you've vented, said your piece, and gave your opinion....you have a right to yours as do i have a right to take Jesus Christ at His Word.

I do have a thought about what you said, though...hmmm...if you can't rely on the Bible, as the authority of God's Word, what are you relying on? And how do you know that what you're relying on, is authentic?

 

[HEisGoodalways]

Heb. chapther 12;22-23 say's you are RIGHT!

Amen bro!!!

Hebrews 12

22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[HighwayMan]

well there now, you've vented, said your piece, and gave your opinion....you have a right to yours as do i have a right to take Jesus Christ at His Word.

I do have a thought about what you said, though...hmmm...if you can't rely on the Bible, as the authority of God's Word, what are you relying on? And how do you know that what you're relying on, is authentic?

I AM relying on the Bible, just not your interpretation and understanding of it.

But the fact that you can not argue what I'm saying speaks further to confirm my post.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
well there now, you've vented, said your piece, and gave your opinion....you have a right to yours as do i have a right to take Jesus Christ at His Word.

I do have a thought about what you said, though...hmmm...if you can't rely on the Bible, as the authority of God's Word, what are you relying on? And how do you know that what you're relying on, is authentic?

I AM relying on the Bible, just not your interpretation and understanding of it.

But the fact that you can not argue what I'm saying speaks further to confirm my post.

What interpretation of the Bible are you relying on?

 

[Rajni]

Floatingaxe, the Gospels and the Epistles were put down in Greek, not KJ English and not Latin. Again, from Hanson:

"Like our Lord and his Apostles, the primitive Christians avoided the words with which the Pagans and Jews defined endless punishment aidios or adialeipton timoria (endless torment), a doctrine the latter believed, and knew how to describe; but they, the early Christians, called punishment, as did our Lord, kolasis aionios, discipline, chastisement, of indefinite, limited duration"

"The first advocates of endless punishment, Minucius Felix, Tertullian and Augustine, were Latins, ignorant of Greek, and less competent to interpret the meaning of Greek Scriptures than were the Greek scholars."

"The first advocates of Universalism, after the Apostles, were Greeks, in whose mother-tongue the New Testament was written. They found their Universalism in the Greek Bible. Who should be correct, they or the Latins?"

The doctrine of endless punishment that is prevalent in modern Protestantism can be traced back to Augustine's distortion of God's word. He admits to not knowing Greek, yet his views on what the scriptures say have prevailed over the earliest understanding by those who spoke Greek!

In short, the traditional view of Protestantism as it relates to endless punishment is the Johnny come lately. You call what you preach "the Gospel", but if it doesn't line up with the scriptures in their original Greek, there are those who won't agree with you. We feel that the Holy Spirit is at work to restore what Jesus and the apostles actually taught and what the early church believed. And it is Good News!

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[Rajni]

I trust God to have cause His Word to have been translated perfectly into English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, Polish, Croatian, Italian, and all other wonderful languages that people speak without any error such as you suggest.

It would appear that we are being asked to trust that God will perfectly preserve written texts while He, at the same time, permits most of creation -- made in His likeness no less -- to fall away into eternal torment/annihilation.

Say it isn't so!








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