Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Rajni]

There are errors in the KJV.

Very true. The KJV mentions unicorns, at least six times. Are unicorns real? No (unfortunately).

Universalists have no interest in rewriting scripture. We prefer the original!

Exactly!!

The rewrites are in translations, such as KJV, NIV, etc. So, we are forced to use literal translations of the NT, Greek interlinears, Greek word studies, and so forth, not out of some love for erudition, but to learn what Jesus and the apostles actually said and wrote, because we, like you, love God's word.

I have more interest in what King Jesus has to say than I do what King James had to say.



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[Rajni]

If I thought all were saved in the end, I would not need to tell anyone about salvation.
Nor would the disciples have risked their lives to do so.

Why not? Scripture commands that we proclaim the gospel; that's reason enough right there to do so.

That being said though, as a Christian, don't you find that knowing Jesus improves your quality of life now, here on earth, as well as it's promised to after death? Surely there's more benefit to living the Christian life over any other than just where the soul winds up post-mortem!

Don't you think that someone living as a slave would want to know if slavery had been abolished? Sure, he's free as far as the Powers that Be are concerned, but he kinda needs to know this himself, first-hand, so he doesn't continue living as though slavery was still in force. Someone's gotta tell him, you know?


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[Floatingaxe]

So God is dumb when He say's "ALL WILL KNOW ME"

There is "know" and then there is "KNOW". We need to be mature about our thinking.

 

[Rajni]

You're off an that assumption as well.

Sorry, that's not an assumption. That's an observation based on experience.


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[Floatingaxe]

Then one can say if God is not love alot of hate fill, self righteous christian are in big trouble. Come to think of it I read alot of their post here.

Actually, the Christians who are proceeding in love are the ones telling the truth and not come sugar-coated lie of Satan called Universalism that mocks the cross and denies the Atonement. Feeding lies is not an act of love but hatred.

 

[Rajni]

but seriously, Jesus Himself says He is the only way to Father, our Abba....and there is none other.....
He should know, right?

He alone is the only way to the Father, which is precisely why we believe His sacrifice was nothing short of 100% successful.


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[Rajni]

Truth is sister, we are in the New Jerusalem now in the Spirit, and we are His temple in the New Jerusalem now, living stones(us), being built up His spiritual house, us, individually and corparately in the Spirit of the living God!!

Hence that peace that passes all understanding that guards our hearts in Christ Jesus. Isn't it great?



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[Floatingaxe]

Heb. chapther 12 say's were wrong.

Once aqain, we were discussing something different, so yeah, you're wrong.

 

[Henaynei]

It would appear that we are being asked to trust that G-d will perfectly preserve written texts while He, at the same time, permits most of creation -- made in His likeness no less -- to fall away into eternal torment/annihilation.

Say it isn't so!.

Oh, but yes, it IS so - He gave man free-will and the sinful choices Man has made from the beginning has caused the entropy of Creation - which is why scripture states "all Creation groans awaiting the final redemption." But G-d alone is responsible for keeping His Word intact and all the agencies of man and the intent of hell can't prevent Him from preserving the unsullied message of redemption and salvation....

 

[Rajni]

The funny thing is that from the 80% of the people here who voted for hell, not all are from the same church, and as such a good number will go to hell forever (if we assume it is true).

The path to truth might indeed be very small and hidden - but to claim that all (90% of all creation) that fail to find it will be cut off forever is nothing short of a demonic theology, no matter what way you spin it.

It's like if you put 10 of your children on a trampoline over a pitfall and watch 9 of them fall to their deaths. Even if you can claim you've been shouting directions and pointing the way - it's beyond monstrous.

That's for sure.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Agian Heb. chapther 12 say's your wrong. This is to easy.

The problem is that Universalists have a distinctly immature view of Scripture, not governed by the Holy spirit, but some other spirit.

Easy? Easy believism is right. No meat...all milk, and that milk has lumps.

 

[Henaynei]

The problem is that Universalists have a distinctly immature view of Scripture, not governed by the Holy spirit, but some other spirit.

Easy? Easy believism is right. No meat...all milk, and that milk has lumps.

I absolutely HATE lumpy milk, with a gastric ferocity that is positively projectile

 

[Floatingaxe]

Agian Heb. 12 say's your are wrong. I wish you would qoute the word and not your mind.

Know the Word. Know Jesus. Only by knowing Jesus can you know the Word of God correctly.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Universalism, as a Christian doctrine, is the belief that all men will eventually be saved, and that salvation is in Christ alone. We are born again, bible believing Christians who love God's word and have a personal relationship with Jesus. Don't confuse us with non Christians, who speak of "Christ consciousness", and the cross as just a beautiful act of love. We recognize that the cross and the blood of Jesus were absolutely necessary for the redemption of sinners.

For anyone interested in areas where universalists disagree with popular doctrine, Bullinger's Companion Bible may be helpful. I don't own a copy, but just found a condensed version on line. Along with the English text, it has great notes and an appendix. I just looked up the Matthew 25 verses, and found in those notes information that I had acquired in much more laborious fashion!

 

[Floatingaxe]

C

this is getting crazier and crazier.

You do realize that everything anyone has ever believed about the Bible or any book is based on human understanding? Even these claims about creationism and hell are nothing but an interpretation made by ancient priests who have managed to spread it to the masses.

And if you believe that being child-like means abandoning any reasonable thought you might have and blindly bowing down to an image of God which by any sane understanding makes him a monster, than this is religious extremism, which has been the cause of most of the great suffering in this world. It is dangerous, it is destructive, it drives people away from God, and most of all it does not fit with the positive image of God the Bible tries to establish.

I see though that it really is useless to argue against such fanaticism, because you seem to believe the more you reject reason, the "stronger" you are and the more you make God happy. "Forget that 90% of his creation is burning in hell, be child-like and just praise how awesome this God is!!" It's the mentality shared by those people that picket soldiers' funerals. I do not understand how such thinking can thrive in the 21st century.

Fanaticism?

Child-likeness has to do with the kind of faith we have in Jesus Christ and the Word of God. If He says it we ought to believe it and not lean to our own feelings about things. If the message bothers us then we need to work through it and lean on the Holy Spirit's teaching us about it--not make up some other doctrine about it that covers up our inability to accept the truth. That is exactly what Universalists have done.

Coming to God and approaching His Word with a chip on one's shoulder is not being child-like in faith. I expect that one will receive nothing from Him until one softens his approach and opens his spiritual ears and eyes.


Btw...no one is "burning in hell" yet.

 

[Rajni]

And the whole "age of accountability" idea anyway is filled with large enough gaps of logic and reason to drive a truck through.

Yes. One big truck.
Big.

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[Rajni]

Oh, but yes, it IS so - He gave man free-will and the sinful choices Man has made from the beginning has caused the entropy of Creation - which is why scripture states "all Creation groans awaiting the final redemption." But G-d alone is responsible for keeping His Word intact and all the agencies of man and the intent of hell can't prevent Him from preserving the unsullied message of redemption and salvation....

"Free" will is a myth.


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[icedtea]

He alone is the only way to the Father, which is precisely why we believe His sacrifice was nothing short of 100% successful.


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except not all accept that sacrifice.

 

[icedtea]

"Free" will is a myth.


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Ah, so everything I've done is Gods will. Thats shocking.
Even the bad things. Didn't know God made me do them.

 

[Rajni]

except not all accept that sacrifice.

God's acceptance of the sacrifice was all that was needed. The sacrifice was to Him for us.

The sacrifice was not made to us that we should be the ones to determine it's worthiness.


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