Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Rajni]

When will it stop?
When it can run no more.
What will you do then?
Carry it home.

Right on!

We feeble humans cannot outrun God.


.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Right on!

We feeble humans cannot outrun God.

People do it and die in their sin every day. Poetry isn't any replacement for truth.

 

[brinny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtXvY4XAfdg

this guy brings up some good points.

 

[Tavita]

I understand that this is your speculation. I'm still waiting for the chapter and verse which definitively states that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly".

So far, in Scripture, the only people who can confess Jesus is Lord are those doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit -- i.e., believers.

Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1Cr 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
​

And, as we know, believers don't end up being tossed into the flames.

AMEN!

This verse:

(Rom 14:11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.

Comes from this verse:

(Isa 45:23) By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

That word swear means:

H7650
שׁבע
shâba‛
shaw-bah'
A primitive root; properly to be complete, but used only as a denominative from H7651; to seven oneself, that is, swear (as if by repeating a declaration seven times): - adjure, charge (by an oath, with an oath), feed to the full [by mistake for H7646], take an oath, X straitly, (cause to, make to) swear.

That is one heavy duty oath!

If you notice the beginning of the Isaiah verse, it says... By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return

God is giving an oath here! This is the type of verse the WOF stand on... the word has gone forth from My mouth! Wooo hooooo!!!! This is God speaking!

The next Isaiah verse says this...

Isa 45:24 Only in Jehovah, it is said of me, is righteousness and strength; even to him shall men come; and all they that were incensed against him shall be put to shame.

That word shame means:

H954
בּוּשׁ
bûsh
boosh
A primitive root; properly to pale, that is, by implication to be ashamed; also (by implication) to be disappointed, or delayed: - (be, make, bring to, cause, put to, with, a-) shame (-d), be (put to) confounded (-fusion), become dry, delay, be long.

Nothing about endless torment here.

 

[Floatingaxe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtXvY4XAfdg

this guy brings up some good points.

Yeah! What he said!

 

[Floatingaxe]

AMEN!

This verse:

(Rom 14:11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.

Comes from this verse:

(Isa 45:23) By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

That word swear means:

H7650
שׁבע
shâba‛
shaw-bah'
A primitive root; properly to be complete, but used only as a denominative from H7651; to seven oneself, that is, swear (as if by repeating a declaration seven times): - adjure, charge (by an oath, with an oath), feed to the full [by mistake for H7646], take an oath, X straitly, (cause to, make to) swear.

That is one heavy duty oath!

If you notice the beginning of the Isaiah verse, it says... By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return

God is giving an oath here! This is the type of verse the WOF stand on... the word has gone forth from My mouth! Wooo hooooo!!!! This is God speaking!

The next Isaiah verse says this...

Isa 45:24 Only in Jehovah, it is said of me, is righteousness and strength; even to him shall men come; and all they that were incensed against him shall be put to shame.

That word shame means:

H954
בּוּשׁ
bûsh
boosh
A primitive root; properly to pale, that is, by implication to be ashamed; also (by implication) to be disappointed, or delayed: - (be, make, bring to, cause, put to, with, a-) shame (-d), be (put to) confounded (-fusion), become dry, delay, be long.

Nothing about endless torment here.

People will hang themselves basing all their mindless theology on that verse.

It doesn't stand up to the full body of the word of God. Those who believer that all will be saved are putting all their eggs in a basket with big huge holes.

 

[brinny]

Yeah! What he said!

i soooo agree

 

[DeborahsSong]

Is 45:23-24 is indeed awesome. I even like vs 22. "Look unto me and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God and there is none else." I know the N.T states that it is the will of God that everyone be saved, and also, that He works out everything in accordance with His will, but you have shown that He swore to it! He is such a mighty savior!!!!!! and the prodigal father!!!!!!!!!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Is 45:23-24 is indeed awesome. I even like vs 22. "Look unto me and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God and there is none else." I know the N.T states that it is the will of God that everyone be saved, and also, that He works out everything in accordance with His will, but you have shown that He swore to it! He is such a mighty savior!!!!!! and the prodigal father!!!!!!!!!

Prodigal Father???? Hardly wasteful.

Yes. let's really look at Isaiah 45:22-25...

22Look to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear [allegiance].
24Only in the Lord shall one say, I have righteousness (salvation and victory) and strength [to achieve]. To Him shall all come who were incensed against Him, and they shall be ashamed.
25In the Lord shall all the offspring of Israel be justified (enjoy righteousness, salvation, and victory) and shall glory.





Please understand that God is speaking to Israel.


"Only in the Lord" does one have righteousness--which means one must be the Lord's! Those outside the Lord do not have righteousness! simple...


"To Him shall all come who were incensed against Him" --yes, and what shall they be? ASHAMED. Not saved.



Yes, the Lord God has already worked things out according to His will: He allowed His perfect and precious Son to be beaten bloody, and sustain broken bones and to be barbarously killed by being nailed like an animal hide to a wooden cross! He died and on the third day, He rose!

For who did He do that? The Lamb sacrificed Himself, and shed ALL His blood for you and me--for the entire world, out of boundless love! He did it--even though people couldn't care less. God sees and He will reward those people accordingly--those who do not receive that MOST precious, COSTLIEST gift EVER.

For the sin of rejecting Jesus, a forever punishment is waiting. For receiving Jesus, a forever glory is waiting. God is intolerant of sin. He doesn't play games. Watch His Word unfold before you at the end of time--be struck with horror at the folly of having believed lies, because God is a just God, and His Word is true. Choose Him or perish in sin. I love my God because He is just--that is a God worth knowing.

 

[Tavita]

People will hang themselves basing all their mindless theology on that verse.

It doesn't stand up to the full body of the word of God. Those who believer that all will be saved are putting all their eggs in a basket with big huge holes.

Hello FA!!

Long time no see... good to read you again!

 

[Tavita]

Is 45:23-24 is indeed awesome. I even like vs 22. "Look unto me and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God and there is none else." I know the N.T states that it is the will of God that everyone be saved, and also, that He works out everything in accordance with His will, but you have shown that He swore to it! He is such a mighty savior!!!!!! and the prodigal father!!!!!!!!!

Amen!

Yes, they're wonderful verses!

Isn't it amazing how the NT magnifies the Old!

 

[DeborahsSong]

Sorry, not just Israel, but all the "ends of the earth." However, assuming He were just talking about Israel for argument's sake, then that would mean all Israel would be saved. All Israel would include Caiaphas, Annas, Judas, Korah, Achan, Amnon, Omri, Ahab, Mannasseh and Jehoiakim to name a few. It would include the rebels in the wilderness and those who burned their own children as sacrifices to Molech. It would include the Pharisees and Saducees who conspired to kill Jesus. It would include those who tried to kill Paul in Jerusalem.

Speaking of Paul, in Romans he had this to say:
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away godliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for their fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentence. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also not believed that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon all." Ro 11:26-32

Note, that scripture says it is impossible to repent or come to the Son without the Father's enablement. So, no one can boast that he chose the Son. Jesus said you didn't choose me. I chose you.

(In my earlier post, prodigal is used in the sense of lavish. Someone once said that the Parable of the Prodigal Son should be called the Parable of the Prodigal Father.)

 

[Floatingaxe]

Hello FA!!

Long time no see... good to read you again!

Hi, Tavita!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Sorry, not just Israel, but all the "ends of the earth." However, assuming He were just talking about Israel for argument's sake, then that would mean all Israel would be saved. All Israel would include Caiaphas, Annas, Judas, Korah, Achan, Amnon, Omri, Ahab, Mannasseh and Jehoiakim to name a few. It would include the rebels in the wilderness and those who burned their own children as sacrifices to Molech. It would include the Pharisees and Saducees who conspired to kill Jesus. It would include those who tried to kill Paul in Jerusalem.

Speaking of Paul, in Romans he had this to say:
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away godliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for their fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentence. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also not believed that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon all." Ro 11:26-32

Note, that scripture says it is impossible to repent or come to the Son without the Father's enablement. So, no one can boast that he chose the Son. Jesus said you didn't choose me. I chose you.

(In my earlier post, prodigal is used in the sense of lavish. Someone once said that the Parable of the Prodigal Son should be called the Parable of the Prodigal Father.)

Not all of Israel, as in every Jew will be saved! That is not what the text means. Millions of Jews will be lost in their sins. It means that Spiritual Israel will be saved--all those who follow the Messiah, Jew or Gentile.



The parable of the Prodigal (wasteful) Son, should be called, "The Father's Love".

 

[Faulty]

I understand that this is your speculation. I'm still waiting for the chapter and verse which definitively states that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly".

So far, in Scripture, the only people who can confess Jesus is Lord are those doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit -- i.e., believers.

Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1Cr 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
​

And, as we know, believers don't end up being tossed into the flames.

There is nothing here to indicate these people bowing are saved at all. It's true, all will see Jesus as Lord and the Holy Spirit will reveal it to them, but will it be as their Saving Lord or their Conquering Lord?

 

[icedtea]

Good to see others see the truth in the Word. Narrow is the way...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

There is nothing here to indicate these people bowing are saved at all. It's true, all will see Jesus as Lord and the Holy Spirit will reveal it to them, but will it be as their Saving Lord or their Conquering Lord?

Does it matter? Does He not have to conquer each of us already as it stands? And does He not do so most excellently and perfectly by His Love for us? What draws us to Him if not that precious blood sacrifice poured out willingly, if not the spectacle of a SOVEREIGN Lord with ALL power in the Universe choosing RATHER to DIE HIMSELF than to give over to death a race of rebel sinners deserving nothing BUT? What draws us to Him if not the tender hands that lift a trembling sinner to stand and walk in confidence after sending her ACCUSERS away -- if not the penetrating gaze of MERCY which melts the knees of demons and sends them fleeing into pigs -- if not the precious voice that calls Lazarus or a little girl away from death's cold prison bars into the warm light of life -- if not the firm and strident tones correcting the fallacies of Pharisees and laying their smarmy self-righteousness in the dust???

Yea through all these beautiful revelations of the heart of God and more bes we drawn to Him time and time again, hungry for His touch, crying out for His love, desperately needing His mercy, and no matter how deeply drowning in despair IMPOSSIBLE to quench that last tiny spark that pleads from the heart of all darkness with us to just look up ONE more time because ... "but Jesus....Jesus LIVES!!! JESUS LIVES!!!" Time and again His love conquers our hearts over and over, conquers our fear, conquers our stubbornness, conquers our unbelief, conquers our rebellion, conquers our selfishness, conquers our folly, conquers our HEARTS and MINDS and CAPTURES us for HIS Kingdom. Will it be any different in the day we stand face to face, then? Will we not rather see Him as He bes in ALL His glory, for we shall be like Him? And what do we imagine ourselves to become then, in becoming like Him, if not the radiant living embodiment of perfect, 100%, no-holds-barred self-sacrificing LOVE, the kind of love that would go to the Cross for Hitler, for Bin Laden, for Bush, for Saddam, for tyrants and despots everywhere, for prostitutes and drug addicts, for devil worshipers and drama queens and social rejects and weirdoes and nutjobs and ordinary selfish hard-hearted humans like hello, all of us. Until we have this Love motivating our every thought, word and deed, we have not finished being transformed into His likeness. And when we shall see Him we shall be as Him. Who knows what God will let us get away with then?!

 

[LeadWorship]

And when we shall see Him we shall be as Him. Who knows what God will let us get away with then?!

Like Him how, exactly?

 

[Rajni]

If you notice the beginning of the Isaiah verse, it says... By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return

God is giving an oath here! This is the type of verse the WOF stand on... the word has gone forth from My mouth! Wooo hooooo!!!! This is God speaking!

Very true.

If anyone can, with success, name it and claim it, believe it and receive it, or speak it into existence, it’s God Himself. And it’s in writing – He swore He would do this thing. Who am I to doubt Him?



.

 

[Rajni]

[FONT=&quot]Sorry, not just Israel, but all the "ends of the earth." However, assuming He were just talking about Israel for argument's sake, then that would mean all Israel would be saved. All Israel would include Caiaphas, Annas, Judas, Korah, Achan, Amnon, Omri, Ahab, Mannasseh and Jehoiakim to name a few. It would include the rebels in the wilderness and those who burned their own children as sacrifices to Molech. It would include the Pharisees and Saducees who conspired to kill Jesus. It would include those who tried to kill Paul in Jerusalem.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Amen. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What sins have ever been committed by anyone outside of Israel that would surpass what anyone within the category of Israel has ever committed? And yet we know that all Israel will be saved. If nothing could stand in the way of Israel being saved in it’s entirety, nothing will stand in the way of the whole world being saved in it’s entirety.[/FONT]