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Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA?
- Thread starter tall73
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One thread, one topic. Simple rule of common sense. Secondly, you made the claim and can't seem to back it up--what does that tell us?
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JDMiowa
Outside the box
I answered your question in my post. I showed the grammar mistakes in the English translations from the original text of scripture. You prove the truth in the famous quote,"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". In the bottom of your post you question what others say about abortion, but you refuse to answer my simple question to you,"Does God like or hate abortion? Jesus said,"Since you refuse to answer my question, I refuse to answer yours".
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Easy to answer. About a dozen years ago I spent three years studying Col. 2:16-17. I knew that the critics would claim that I was just parroting what EGW told us. So, I never looked--AND I still haven't.
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>You prove the truth in the famous quote,"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".
No, I skimmed over your long post. You couldn't answer the question simply. We're done.
>"Does God like or hate abortion?
A better question would be: what will God say if a pregnancy is killing the mother and you got on your high horse and refused to allow her to have an abortion? That's the kind of thing I was referring to. It was and STILL IS irrelevant to your claim which you STILL can't back up.
No, I skimmed over your long post. You couldn't answer the question simply. We're done.
>"Does God like or hate abortion?
A better question would be: what will God say if a pregnancy is killing the mother and you got on your high horse and refused to allow her to have an abortion? That's the kind of thing I was referring to. It was and STILL IS irrelevant to your claim which you STILL can't back up.
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>Unfortunately many translations have incorrectly rendered severalNew Testament Greek references to 'sabbaths' as 'Sabbath'.
Name them. Don't try to be so coy.
Name them. Don't try to be so coy.
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>Both the Old and New Testaments utilise the plural form of the word'sabbath' in various contexts.
Assumes facts not in evidence and no relevance to the question is given.
Assumes facts not in evidence and no relevance to the question is given.
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Nope; I looked at your post--lots of hand-waving and smoke-blowing hoping that people will assume that there's an actual fire about stuff that isn't even relevant to the point at hand.
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>There are many other New Testament verses which refer to multiple typesof sabbath.
Not relevant to the claim "(the original text says, "end of Sabbaths"**** meaning more than one)".
Looks like we'll never get the answer to the simple question: which text. Of course, it kind of hard to answer it plain and simple when it doesn't even exist.
Not relevant to the claim "(the original text says, "end of Sabbaths"**** meaning more than one)".
Looks like we'll never get the answer to the simple question: which text. Of course, it kind of hard to answer it plain and simple when it doesn't even exist.
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stinsonmarri
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Show us these Texts please! Just give them to us so we can look them up and read them for ourselves.
Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri
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JDMiowa
Outside the box
You write about abortiions in every post you send, yet you can't answer one simple question, "Does God like or hate abortions?" Keeping the sixth commandment includes the unborn baby's. If a person can't answer this simple question how can you trust them on the complex issues. " Luke 6:9 Then Jesus said to them, "I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbaths to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?" Abortion destroys life. God chose adoption for us, let's recommend adoption/life over abortion/destruction. Some ask,"What would Jesus do?" It is better to ask,"What did Jesus do and say?"
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JDMiowa
Outside the box
Thanks for your interest in this complex topic stinsonmarri. I know this is long but sound bits don't do this topic justice.
Both the Old and New Testaments utilise the plural form of the word'sabbath' in various contexts. Unfortunately many translations have incorrectly rendered severalNew Testament Greek references to 'sabbaths' as 'Sabbath'. It seemsthis has largely been due to their lack of awareness of the OldCovenant law. So, as a result, translators have simply thought manyplural sabbath verses were referring to the weekly Sabbath. OLD TESTAMENT SABBATHS
The Old Testament utilizes the word 'sabbaths' in various situations.1) To define a specific set of weekly sabbaths, those defining the period between the first and third month assemblies. Lev 23:15 And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed. :16 Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall offer a new grain offering to the LORD. Deut 16:9 You shall count seven weeks for yourself; begin to count the seven weeks from the time you begin to put the sickle to the grain. :10 Then you shall keep the Feast of Weeks to the LORD your God ...2) In reference to the multiple land sabbaths before the observance of the fiftieth year. Lev 25:8 And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. :10 And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, ...3) Scripture also uses the word 'sabbaths' in a general sense and in these cases there is some uncertainty as to exactly what is meant. Exod 31:13 Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you'. Lev 19:3 Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and keep My Sabbaths: I am the LORD your God. Verses such as the above portray a link between the plural word 'sabbaths' and the fourth commandment. (Note the text of Exodus 31:14-17 goes on to talk about the seventh day Sabbath.) Many scholars have considered the plural form of sabbath may legitimately refer only to the weekly sabbath. However, verses which are undoubtably talking about the weekly sabbath (when used in a general sense, rather than to refer to particular weekly sabbaths) do not depict the plural form! For example the word sabbath is encountered 4 times in Exodus 31:15-16 and is never in the plural form. This has lead some to believe that the word 'sabbaths', when used in a general sense, refers to multiple types of sabbath. Apart from the weekly sabbath and the land sabbath there are also other days represented as sabbaths! - The Day of Atonement Lev 23:27 Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; ... :31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. :32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath." Lev 16:29 This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you. :30 For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, ... :31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. ( NB: Like the weekly sabbath the Day of Atonement was - a complete day of rest, Lev 23:31 - breach punishable by death, Lev 23:30 - statute forever, Lev 16:31, 23:31. ) - Other Annual Assembly Days There were 6 other annual appointment days on which one could not do any customary(occupational) work. Refer chapter 23 of Leviticus. Three of these days are defined as days of 'sabbathism'. Lev 23:24 Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a rest (sabbathism), a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. :39 Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the LORD for seven days; on the first day there shall be a rest (sabbathism), ... :39 ... and on the eighth day a rest (sabbathism). While the word 'sabbath' (Strong's reference 7676) is not expressly used in these verses it is apparent these days were also a form of sabbath, ie break from normal work. 4) The Old Testament frequently presents the word 'sabbaths' in the context, 'Sabbaths, New Moons and set feasts'. The meaning of sabbaths in this context has to be derived after consideration of the terms 'new moons' and 'set feasts'. However, in summary it appears in this context that 'sabbaths' is alluding to the weekly seventh day and the Day of Atonement. For a fuller discussion refer to the page on 'New Moons'.NEW TESTAMENT SABBATHS
[/quote]
'FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK'
This expression is commonly found in the New Testament referring to theday Christ rose and is additionally mentioned in Acts 20:7 and 1Cor 16:2.The Greek is commonly 'first of the sabbaths' and refers to the wavesheaf day which began the counting toward Pentecost. In other words thenotion 'sabbaths' here connects back to the first form of 'sabbaths'discussed under point one above, ie a specific set of weekly sabbathsdefining the period between the first and third month assemblies.For a fuller discussion refer the page on this topic.'DAY OF THE SABBATHS'
Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the day of the Sabbaths (not 'Sabbath day'), and stood up to read. Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the day of the Sabbaths (not 'Sabbath day') and sat down. Acts 16:13 And on the day of the Sabbaths (not 'Sabbath day') we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; ...This term 'day of the sabbaths' could refer either to the wave sheafday (the first day of the sabbaths period) or Pentecost (the last dayof the sabbaths period).[ NB: In Luke 4:16 the term is encountered prior to the period of the 'sabbaths' as mentioned in Luke 4:31. So it seems the term 'day of the sabbaths' is actually describing the wave sheaf day. ]'IN/ON THE SABBATHS'
Luke 4:31 Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them in the Sabbaths. Mark 1:21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbaths He entered the synagogue and taught. Mark 2:23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbaths; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. Matt 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbaths. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. Luke 13:10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbaths.A reference to the period of the seven Sabbaths between the Feast ofUnleavened Bread and Pentecost.LUKE 6:1
Luke 6:1 Now it happened on the Sabbath second-foremost that He went through the grainfields.The purpose of the expression 'second-foremost' was to make it clear thatthe disciples did not pluck the grain prior to the occurrence of thewave sheaf ceremony (as such an act was expressly forbidden in the Law,refer Lev 23:14).In the context of the period of the seven weekly sabbaths there is a weeklySabbath which precedes the wave sheaf ceremony, it immediately precedesthe counting of the days toward the Feast of Weeks. Therefore it seemslogical that this weekly Sabbath be identified in this context as the'Sabbath foremost'.Hence the expression 'Sabbath second-foremost', apparently meaning 'Sabbathsecond-to-the-foremost", would be identifying the next weekly Sabbath, thatis the first of the seven weekly sabbaths. On this day the restriction ofLev 23:14 would not be applicable.MATTHEW 28:1
This verse should read; Matt 28:1 At the end of the Sabbaths (not Sabbath), ..., Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.Advising that two sabbaths passed between Christ's death and rising,the annual sabbath of the 15th and a weekly Sabbath.OTHER 'SABBATHS'
There are many other New Testament verses which refer to multiple typesof sabbath. Matt 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbaths the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 12:10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbaths?"; that they might accuse Him. :11 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbaths, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? :12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbaths." Mark 2:24 And the Pharisees said to Him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbaths?" 3:2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbaths, so that they might accuse Him. :3 And He said to the man who had the withered hand, "Step forward." :4 Then He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbaths to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they kept silent. Luke 6:2 And some of the Pharisees said to them, "Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbaths?" :9 Then Jesus said to them, "I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbaths to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?"
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JDMiowa
Outside the box
Mark 16:1
And when the sabbath(should be sabbaths) was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. Matt 28:1 It should read; At the end of the Sabbaths (not Sabbath), ..., Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.Advising that two sabbaths passed between Christ's death and rising,the annual sabbath of the 15th and a weekly Sabbath.OTHER 'SABBATHS'
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That remark is in the sig--I do NOT write it into every post. You are evading answering the question because you are not speaking the truth.
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>There are many other New Testament verses which refer to multiple typesof sabbath.
Not relevant to the claim "(the original text says, "end of Sabbaths"**** meaning more than one)".
Looks like we'll never get the answer to the simple question: which text. Of course, it kind of hard to answer it plain and simple when it doesn't even exist.
A week later and he still can't produce the texts(s).
Not relevant to the claim "(the original text says, "end of Sabbaths"**** meaning more than one)".
Looks like we'll never get the answer to the simple question: which text. Of course, it kind of hard to answer it plain and simple when it doesn't even exist.
A week later and he still can't produce the texts(s).
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Im thankful Mary did not kill her child when she became pregnant. Are you?Similar threads
