Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA?

[tall73]

for now I will just put the topic. It is self explanatory.

 

[StormyOne]

For some yes, for others no... she indicated that she should not be....

 

[woobadooba]

Absolutely not!

 

[HoneyDew]

If someone comes along and says, "I have some more information" will we listen to them? We will certainly test them, but if what they are saying is not false, how quick are we to incorporate "new" teachings? (I use "new" not to indicate that the information has never been given to us before, but that we needed to rediscover it.)

 

[Cliff2]

for now I will just put the topic. It is self explanatory.

As has been said already for some it is and for others it is not.

I would much rather believe a prophet in this case prophetess than a theologian.

Would we rather believe our own interpretaion of the Old Testament than what the writers of the new Testament said about it?

God does not give out different degrees of inspiration.

You are inspired or you are not.

What she does say is that the Bible is the final word on any topic and I agree with that.

To date I have not found her to come up with anything that is against the Bible.

She gives insights that can only come from God.

She even says that in the last days Satan will attack her writings to make them null and void.

That is happening today, maybe even right here on CF.

 

[woobadooba]

As has been said already for some it is and for others it is not.

I would much rather believe a prophet in this case prophetess than a theologian.

Would we rather believe our own interpretaion of the Old Testament than what the writers of the new Testament said about it?

God does not give out different degrees of inspiration.

You are inspired or you are not.

What she does say is that the Bible is the final word on any topic and I agree with that.

To date I have not found her to come up with anything that is against the Bible.

She gives insights that can only come from God.

She even says that in the last days Satan will attack her writings to make them null and void.

That is happening today, maybe even right here on CF.

I think we need to be careful here though Cliff. Even a prophet of God is fallible.

I recall Ellen White, even at the time that she had the prophetic gift, misinterpreting the scripture concerning the 2300 day/year prophecy, in that she was sure that Jesus would come in 1844. But she was obviously wrong.

So even a prophet can misinterpret a passage. Had she been more theologically adept she wouldn't have made that mistake, especially when one considers everything that is supposed to happen concerning the mark of the beast and the anti-christ right before Jesus comes, so as it is prophesied in Revelation, and elsewhere in the Bible.

She also misinterpreted other passages concerning the Sabbath and the law, until theologians set her straight.

And then there was the issue of 1888 with Jones and Waggoner, young theologians who opened her eyes and the eyes of other SDAs to the truth about righteousness by faith.

Theologians and prophets both have their place in the church. But neither one is infallible, and therefore both are subject to make mistakes in interpretation.

 

[tall73]

I will comment more later, but Woobadooba, she actually said that what Jones and Waggoner were teaching was in line with the light she had received. In fact, it was her endorsement that for many helped win the day. Not that they treated her that well there either. But just a technical note. I will cover more on the topic later ,but don't really have time at the moment.

 

[woobadooba]

I will comment more later, but Woobadooba, she actually said that what Jones and Waggoner were teaching was in line with the light she had received. In fact, it was her endorsement that for many helped win the day. Not that they treated her that well there either. But just a technical note. I will cover more on the topic later ,but don't really have time at the moment.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[David McQueen]

Why do we believe she was an interpreter of scripture?
Did she say this was her role?

I the answer to this depends on how you view her role.

(For the record my background is SDA)

 

[Cliff2]

Why do we believe she was an interpreter of scripture?
Did she say this was her role?

I the answer to this depends on how you view her role.

(For the record my background is SDA)

Wondering if your background is also Australian, used to know a person by the same name

 

[Cliff2]

I think we need to be careful here though Cliff. Even a prophet of God is fallible.

I recall Ellen White, even at the time that she had the prophetic gift, misinterpreting the scripture concerning the 2300 day/year prophecy, in that she was sure that Jesus would come in 1844. But she was obviously wrong.

So even a prophet can misinterpret a passage. Had she been more theologically adept she wouldn't have made that mistake, especially when one considers everything that is supposed to happen concerning the mark of the beast and the anti-christ right before Jesus comes, so as it is prophesied in Revelation, and elsewhere in the Bible.

She also misinterpreted other passages concerning the Sabbath and the law, until theologians set her straight.

And then there was the issue of 1888 with Jones and Waggoner, young theologians who opened her eyes and the eyes of other SDAs to the truth about righteousness by faith.

Theologians and prophets both have their place in the church. But neither one is infallible, and therefore both are subject to make mistakes in interpretation.

I can agree that prophets make mistakes, Noah, Moses, Abraham, David, they were all fallible.

Their life record is there for all to see worts and all. Some of it is not very good reading. If we were half as hard on them as some of us are on EGW we would probably take them out of the Bible.

Nathan got it wrong when he told david to go ahead and build the temple. He even assured David that the Lord would be with him. Yet we still leave him in the Bible and do not tell people that the reading of the book od Nathan is wrong. That is if you can still find one.

I have never seen where EGW said she was infallible.

 

[David McQueen]

Wondering if your background is also Australian, used to know a person by the same name

No my friend. English of Caribbean extraction....with a burning desire to come to Australia one day

 

[Cliff2]

No my friend. English of Caribbean extraction....with a burning desire to come to Australia one day

No problems, just an interesting coincidence I guess.

 

[David McQueen]

You seen my photo right? That outa confirm it!

 

[Cliff2]

You seen my photo right? That outa confirm it!

I am learning all the time on ehre and how all the extras work.

 

[Sophia7]

Would we rather believe our own interpretation of the Old Testament than what the writers of the new Testament said about it?

God does not give out different degrees of inspiration.

You are inspired or you are not.

To date I have not found her to come up with anything that is against the Bible.

If God does not give different degrees of inspiration, why would the writings of Ellen White not be placed on the same level as the Bible? By the way, I don't think that they should.

There are a few things that EGW wrote that seem to go against the Bible. I came across one in particular a couple of weeks ago that I have a hard time with. It is from the book The Retirement Years, chapter 13, "The Hour of Bereavement," pp. 161-163. I believe this portion was originally from a letter (Letter 17, 1881) written to her son after the death of James.

A few days since, I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty. In the night I dreamed I was in the carriage, driving, sitting at the right hand. Father was in the carriage, seated at my left hand. He was very pale, but calm and composed. "Why Father," I exclaimed, "I am so happy to have you by my side once more! I have felt that half of me was gone. Father, I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back to me again, and we work together as we used to?" {RY 161.1}

He looked very sad. He said, "The Lord knows what is best for you and for me. My work was very dear to me. We have made a mistake. We have responded to urgent invitations of our brethren to attend important meetings. We had not the heart to refuse. These meetings have worn us both more than we were aware. Our good brethren were gratified, but they did not realize that in these meetings we took upon us greater burdens than at our age we could safely carry. They will never know the result of this long-continued strain upon us. God would have had them bear the burdens we have carried for years. Our nervous energies have been continuously taxed, and then our brethren misjudging our motives and not realizing our burdens have weakened the action of the heart. I have made mistakes, the greatest of which was in allowing my sympathies for the people of God to lead me to take work upon me which others should have borne. {RY 161.2}

"Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings, as has been the case in the past. But lay this matter before God and make no response to the most earnest invitations. Your life hangs as it were upon a thread. You must have quiet rest, freedom from all excitement and from all disagreeable cares. We might have done a great deal for years with our pens, on subjects the people need that we have had light upon and can present before them, which others do not have. Thus you can work when your strength returns, as it will, and you can do far more with your pen than with your voice." {RY 162.1}

He looked at me appealingly and said, "You will not neglect these cautions, will you, Ellen? Our people will never know under what infirmities we have labored to serve them because our lives were interwoven with the progress of the work, but God knows it all. I regret that I have felt so deeply and labored unreasonably in emergencies, regardless of the laws of life and health. The Lord did not require us to carry so heavy burdens and many of our brethren so few. We ought to have gone to the Pacific Coast before, and devoted our time and energies to writing. Will you do this now? Will you, as your strength returns, take your pen and write out these things we have so long anticipated, and make haste slowly? There is important matter which the people need. Make this your first business. You will have to speak some to the people, but shun the responsibilities which have borne us down." {RY 162.2}

"Well," said I, "James, you are always to stay with me now and we will work together." Said he, "I stayed in Battle Creek too long. I ought to have gone to California more than one year ago. But I wanted to help the work and institutions at Battle Creek. I have made a mistake. Your heart is tender. You will be inclined to make the same mistakes I have made. Your life can be of use to the cause of God. Oh, those precious subjects the Lord would have had me bring before the people, precious jewels of light!" {RY 163.1}

I awoke. But this dream seemed so real. Now you can see and understand why I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek for the purpose of shouldering the responsibilities in General Conference. I have no duty to stand in General Conference. The Lord forbids me. That is enough. -- Letter 17, 1881. {RY 163.2}

My question on this is why would God give Ellen White a dream in which she talks to her dead husband and gets advice from him? If I had such a dream, I would not believe that it was God talking to me through the dream since the Bible says that we are not supposed to talk to the dead. This was not just a normal dream because she thought that God was giving her a message through it.

 

[HoneyDew]

Because it was a dream. If she had said she was sitting in her living room and James came in through the wall and spoke to her, then I could understand using this as fodder to say she was false regarding the state of the dead. It is obvious that EGW herself had misgivings about spending her self so lavishly with others while neglecting her health. Dreams take the form of familiar things and people, so it is only fitting that she see her loved one telling her what she is refusing to tell her self conciously.

 

[payattention]

If God does not give different degrees of inspiration, why would the writings of Ellen White not be placed on the same level as the Bible? By the way, I don't think that they should.

The problem begins with your view of the Bible and inspiration. Deep inside most Christians, including Adventists, believe that God plugged into the biblical writers and gave them the Bible. We know that is not what happened but that how we view it. Inspiration is the process by which men receive information that they are not taught by other humans. There is nothing special about it. It is happens to every one. Because we have an elevated view of the Bible and inspiration we now don't know how to handle EGW relative to the Bible. The proper view is that what really matters is the truth about the character of God regardless of the source from which we obtain it.

 

[payattention]

No my friend. English of Caribbean extraction....with a burning desire to come to Australia one day

What part of the Caribbean?

 

[payattention]

My question on this is why would God give Ellen White a dream in which she talks to her dead husband and gets advice from him? If I had such a dream, I would not believe that it was God talking to me through the dream since the Bible says that we are not supposed to talk to the dead. This was not just a normal dream because she thought that God was giving her a message through it.

Here again we are reading through our own filters. There was a message in the dream does not mean that God decided to send her a dream. He could have but it does not necessarily follow. Humans suffer from Peter's problem. We love to build tabernacles. We get messages all the time. It is our responsibility to determine whether they are useful or not, instead of trying to immortalize the source of the message.