Is Contraception Destructive?

[Gishin]

What's wrong with 12 children? Most of them will die before adulthood and you need the rest to help work or marry off.

(see, it kinda makes sense if you revert your thinking to the bronze age mentality)

 

[patricius79]

What if you want to have sex with your wife but can't afford to feed 12 children?

Hi Miniverchivi!

I think that is a very good question.

and I think that is why God gave the infertile period

 

[patricius79]

I guess it's fortunate it isn't up to you what's right or wrong for my life.
tulc(is drinking an excellent cup of coffee)

amen

 

[Gishin]

Hi Miniverchivi!

I think that is a very good question.

and I think that is why God gave the infertile period

But that would be a sin, for trying to have sex without the intent to impregnate. You're not giving all of yourself to her then.

Insane Troll Logic - Television Tropes & Idioms

 

[tulc]

amen

It's nice to find something we can agree on!
tulc(hopes your day is blessed!)

 

[patricius79]

But that would be a sin, for trying to have sex without the intent to impregnate. You're not giving all of yourself to her then.

Hi Gishin!,

Good to see you.

I think that someone who believes that they SHOULD not be seeking to impregnate their wife at a given moment can still give everything he has to offer in the marital act.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Hi Miniverchivi!

I think that is a very good question.

and I think that is why God gave the infertile period

Then I would have to ask, how would that be different than using a condom?

The intentions would be the same (that being sex without procreation)

Also, is your opinion on the matter based on scriptural backing? (other than the mistranslation that the NIV provides in Genesis 38)
Or is it more of a tradition thing? (Like many who still observe the "no meat on Friday during Lent tradition)

 

[patricius79]

Oh ok, im glad we cleared that up.

Hi Boxes!

I hope you are having a blessed evening

are you saying that one cannot fully give oneself to the other unless they are fertile?

I think that God created the infertile period also. it is part of the natural life He created. He does not will that a wife should always have fertility to give. but she can still give her body to her husband without reservation

 

[patricius79]

I think birth control is ok and my wife uses it combined with finishing with oral sex is pretty good birth control and allows for sexual activity when ever we want (ie most flexability)

I think that true flexibility requires discipline. in fact, couples that practice periodic abstinence have considerably more sex and romance

 

[Gishin]

Hi Gishin!,

Good to see you.

I think that someone who believes that they SHOULD not be seeking to impregnate their wife at a given moment can still give everything he has to offer in the marital act.

I believe so too! Which is why my wife is on the pill.

 

[Jade Margery]

I think that true flexibility requires discipline. in fact, couples that practice periodic abstinence have considerably more sex and romance

Er, got anything to back that up? And how long do these 'periodic' stretches of abstinence need to be?

'Cuz my boyfriend of four years and I still do tons of romantic stuff together and hit the sheets two to four times a day/night. We may just be an exception tho.

(In case you can't tell, I'm quite happy to be on birth control, and we usually use condoms too, just to be safe.)

 

[patricius79]

That is also true, we will skip days to build anticipation. So I do agree but its based on what we want to do rather than other things.

Isn't that beautiful? I think that is beautiful.

Hope you are having an enjoyable day, Boxes,

pat

 

[patricius79]

Then I would have to ask, how would that be different than using a condom?

The intentions would be the same (that being sex without procreation)

Also, is your opinion on the matter based on scriptural backing? (other than the mistranslation that the NIV provides in Genesis 38)
Or is it more of a tradition thing? (Like many who still observe the "no meat on Friday during Lent tradition)

intentions alone do not determine the character of an act

even if one's intention is to avoid pregnancy for selfish reasons--as opposed to noble ones--there is nothing intrinsically wrong with not having sex during the fertile period, as everyone here knows

as to the Scriptures, I don't think it is possible to defend contraception or claim that Onan did not die for contraception without going beyond Scripture

as to Tradtion: there is no historic source of the N.T. besides Catholic Tradition. so it is authoritative.

"hold fast to the writtern and oral traditions" 2 Thes 2:15

both the Reformers and later Protestant writers and the historic Trinitarian Church have always held that contraception is wrong and that Onan was killed for such

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

How do you know god killed them for using birth control? What if he killed them for some other reason? What if god didn't kill them?

 

[Belk]

intentions alone do not determine the character of an act

even if one's intention is to avoid pregnancy for selfish reasons--as opposed to noble ones--there is nothing intrinsically wrong with not having sex during the fertile period, as everyone here knows

as to the Scriptures, I don't think it is possible to defend contraception or claim that Onan did not die for contraception without going beyond Scripture

as to Tradtion: there is no historic source of the N.T. besides Catholic Tradition. so it is authoritative.

"hold fast to the writtern and oral traditions" 2 Thes 2:15

both the Reformers and later Protestant writers and the historic Trinitarian Church have always held that contraception is wrong and that Onan was killed for such

So, what is a selfish reason for not having kids and what is a noble one?

 

[patricius79]

Just understand that alot of christians dont believe that yet you should still live at peace with them. If God kills them for taking birth control thats not your responsibility.

I don't think that God kills anyone. The God I know is Infinitely Merciful and Compassionate. He understands mental confusion, ignorance, poor instruction, etc.

I'm just glad everyone here exists. Know what i mean?

I don't think I'm better than people who contracept. Probably some of my favorite people contracept or have and don't see anything wrong with it

 

[patricius79]

Thats fair, so you see it as a personal preference among christians, which I agree.

Hi Boxes!

I can't agree with that because I know that contraception is intrinsically wrong in the same way I know that fornication and stealing are wrong.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I can't agree with that because I know that contraception is intrinsically wrong

I know of some Catholics that agree with you, which is why they oppose the RCC's new position (since the sexual revolution of the 60's) of NFP. I think far more Catholics simply view the RCC since 1960 of "speaking out of both sides of its mouth." As my cradle Catholic brother-in-law says, "When the Church makes up it's mind, I'll listen."




.

 

[Gishin]

We keep going in circles.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

intentions alone do not determine the character of an act

Yes they do.

In fact, intent is the only thing that can determine the character of an act...thus the reason courts use intent when deciding whether or not a person gets charged for murder.

even if one's intention is to avoid pregnancy for selfish reasons--as opposed to noble ones--there is nothing intrinsically wrong with not having sex during the fertile period, as everyone here knows

"as everyone here knows" Nope, try again

You can't just post something that's clearly an opinion, and not backed up by any kind of science or historical fact, and follow it with "as everyone here knows" and expect people to just accept it as common knowledge.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting or not wanting to get pregnant.

How can avoiding pregnancy be selfish? The potential "new life to be" doesn't exist yet at that point so who is getting ripped off by the couple who chooses to use contraception?

as to the Scriptures, I don't think it is possible to defend contraception or claim that Onan did not die for contraception without going beyond Scripture

Did you have another book that we should be looking other than the bible that gives a historical account of this occurence?

as to Tradtion: there is no historic source of the N.T. besides Catholic Tradition. so it is authoritative.

"hold fast to the writtern and oral traditions" 2 Thes 2:15

No, the Catholic Tradition has the only historic source of the Catholic interpretation of the NT.

We have to keep in mind that the current Catholic interpretations of the bible are based on the Vulgate; a translation by St. Jerome who was commisioned by the Pope to make a revision to the original latin.

So naturally I would expect that a version that was made by Catholics, for Catholics would convey ideas that coincide with what the Pope's personal convictions were.

I'm not trying to be insulting, please don't take my posts the wrong way, but when we translate what you're attempting to do into plain English, it's nothing more than arbitrary statements based on your personal opinions mixed in with a splash of circular reasoning pertaining to the catholic church.


Essentially, what you're doing is this

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"



Thus far, you've provided nothing outside the realm of Catholicism to back up your statements.