Is Contraception Destructive?

[Jazer]

They are causing a great deal of pain to many, such as by increasing the rate of AIDS in many countries.

"condoms in some cases could be justified, perhaps as a "lesser evil,"
in cases where not using one would lead to the death of another person."
Vatican Clarifies Pope's Statements on Condoms

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

"condoms in some cases could be justified, perhaps as a "lesser evil,"
in cases where not using one would lead to the death of another person."
Vatican Clarifies Pope's Statements on Condoms

Why are condoms a lesser evil than anything? Relating HIV as being only quantitatively worse than condom use, in my opinion, is the morally and ethically objectionable point here.

 

[Jazer]

Why are condoms a lesser evil than anything? Relating HIV as being only quantitatively worse than condom use, in my opinion, is the morally and ethically objectionable point here.

The use of a condom is less evil than to murder someone though the spread of HIV. They are starting to post photos of prostitutes that are known to have HIV. In an effort to prevent the spread of disease.

 

[Jazer]

can contraception be linked to adultery, divorce, and other societal ills?

In my first marriage contraception was very much a leading cause of the divorce.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

The use of a condom is less evil than to murder someone though the spread of HIV. They are starting to post photos of prostitutes that are known to have HIV. In an effort to prevent the spread of disease.

That is not the point. Why are condoms evil at all?

 

[patricius79]

In my first marriage contraception was very much a leading cause of the divorce.

Hi Jazer!

thank you for your courageous testimony

 

[Gishin]

In my first marriage contraception was very much a leading cause of the divorce.

How? You wanted to go bareback and she wouldn't let you or something?

 

[Gishin]

Hi Jazer!

thank you for your courageous testimony

What testimony? He didn't testify anything!

That's some outrageous confirmation bias.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

intentions alone do not determine the character of an act

Yes they do.

In fact, intent is the only thing that can determine the character of an act...thus the reason courts use intent when deciding whether or not a person gets charged for murder.

even if one's intention is to avoid pregnancy for selfish reasons--as opposed to noble ones--there is nothing intrinsically wrong with not having sex during the fertile period, as everyone here knows

"as everyone here knows" Nope, try again

You can't just post something that's clearly an opinion, and not backed up by any kind of science or historical fact, and follow it with "as everyone here knows" and expect people to just accept it as common knowledge.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting or not wanting to get pregnant.

How can avoiding pregnancy be selfish? The potential "new life to be" doesn't exist yet at that point so who is getting ripped off by the couple who chooses to use contraception?

as to the Scriptures, I don't think it is possible to defend contraception or claim that Onan did not die for contraception without going beyond Scripture

Did you have another book that we should be looking other than the bible that gives a historical account of this occurence?

as to Tradtion: there is no historic source of the N.T. besides Catholic Tradition. so it is authoritative.

"hold fast to the writtern and oral traditions" 2 Thes 2:15

No, the Catholic Tradition has the only historic source of the Catholic interpretation of the NT.

We have to keep in mind that the current Catholic interpretations of the bible are based on the Vulgate; a translation by St. Jerome who was commisioned by the Pope to make a revision to the original latin.

So naturally I would expect that a version that was made by Catholics, for Catholics would convey ideas that coincide with what the Pope's personal convictions were.

I'm not trying to be insulting, please don't take my posts the wrong way, but when we translate what you're attempting to do into plain English, it's nothing more than arbitrary statements based on your personal opinions mixed in with a splash of circular reasoning pertaining to the catholic church.


Essentially, what you're doing is this

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"

"The Catholic Traditions say to always obey the Catholic Church"

"You shouldn't use Contraception because the Catholic Church says it's wrong"

"The Catholic Church teaches to always hold fast to the Catholic traditions"


Thus far, you've provided nothing outside the realm of Catholicism to back up your statements.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

In my first marriage contraception was very much a leading cause of the divorce.

Then you must be the first in history.

Chances are, if a device as simple as a small hunk of latex and ruin your marriage, I would assume that the marriage didn't have a strong foundation to begin with.

If what you're suggesting is that you got divorced because you and your spouse disagreed on whether or not contraception should be used, that's a disagreement about personal preferences...which means the disagreement caused the split and not the contraception itself.

 

[patricius79]

Yes they do.

In fact, intent is the only thing that can determine the character of an act...thus the reason courts use intent when deciding whether or not a person gets charged for murder.

Hi Miniverchivi!

Blessed Sunday!

I think that courts don't use intention alone, but look at the objective nature of the act (e.g. rape, murder, theft, etc)

and it is possible to do the wrong thing with good intention and the right thing for the wrong reason

"as everyone here knows" Nope, try again

then logically you would have to say that it is immoral for a couple to every be physically separate during a whole fertile period, or to abstain for serious health reasons like intense cancer

You can't just post something that's clearly an opinion, and not backed up by any kind of science or historical fact, and follow it with "as everyone here knows" and expect people to just accept it as common knowledge.

it is historical fact that the historic Trinitarian Church and the Reformers condemned contraception

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting or not wanting to get pregnant.

quite true

How can avoiding pregnancy be selfish?

e.g. if the husband wants to hurt the wife by not giving her a child which she desires

Did you have another book that we should be looking other than the bible that gives a historical account of this occurence?

no. one can look at the Jewish commentaries

certainly one can't add to Scripture by saying that Onan was not condemned for his contraception when that is clearly a possibility

that would be a violation of S.S.

No, the Catholic Tradition has the only historic source of the Catholic interpretation of the NT.

I've been talking with Protestants about this for years and none has ever produced a non-Catholic historic source of the N.T. Canon and I've been unable to find one.

the N.T. Canon historically has no source but Catholic Tradition which condemns the act of contraception

I also think that Mother Teresa is a very credible witness both as to contraception and NFP

 

[Gishin]

The same Mother Teresa who said suffering was a blessing from God.

 

[patricius79]

Then you must be the first in history.

.

how do you know that he is the first in history to have his marriage seriously harmed by the practice of contraception?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.


I agree, NFP and all other approaches to contraceptive sex CAN be emotionally and relationally harmful. The same is true of rejecting all forms of contraceptive sex.





.

 

[Gishin]

how do you know that he is the first in history to have his marriage seriously harmed by the practice of contraception?

It means without further explanation about what happened or why he blames contraception for it, we don't buy it.

 

[razeontherock]

Chances are, if a device as simple as a small hunk of latex and ruin your marriage, I would assume that the marriage didn't have a strong foundation to begin with.

If what you're suggesting is that you got divorced because you and your spouse disagreed on whether or not contraception should be used, that's a disagreement about personal preferences...which means the disagreement caused the split and not the contraception itself.

Hey, there's no room for logic in an emotionally charged topic like this!

 

[patricius79]

Chances are, if a device as simple as a small hunk of latex and ruin your marriage, I would assume that the marriage didn't have a strong foundation to begin with.
.

Hi Miniverchivi!

it seems like the pro-contraceptive side sometimes feels it must use straw men fallacies

if these are the best arguments in favor of contraception, one might conclude that they should look into the historic Trinitarian teaching about contraception

Peace of Jesus Christ,

pat

 

[Nomarga]

Is Contraception Destructive?"

 

[Gishin]

Hi Miniverchivi!

it seems like the pro-contraceptive side sometimes feels it must use straw men fallacies

if these are the best arguments in favor of contraception, one might conclude that they should look into the historic Trinitarian teaching about contraception

Peace of Jesus Christ,

pat

I don't think you know what a strawman is. Furthermore we've given you good, actual reasons that contraception is not a bad thing, and all you have said is "it's bad because the church says so" and made up vague reasons it must be so.

 

[StThomasMore]

...which you don't cite, we all notice.

No, the RCC is rather silly in regards to contraception.

why is that? What the CC dislikes is the contraceptive mentality that has hurt a lot of people. The contraceptive mentality cheapens the sacred union between man and woman, cheapens and degrades procreation, objectifies ones partner as a sexual object and sex as just something for sexual pleasure. It also creates a mentality that says children are a problem and nuisance and creates an animosity towards the unborn and procreation in general. An attitude that children are a nuisance and a pest to ones life that must be suppressed by using contraception.

That's why many women who get abortions have used contraception. Since they have the contraceptive mentality that children are a pest and hindrance to their lives and thus they can justify killing their own children all the more when they are pregnant.

In the mid-1960's, after the pill was introduced,
both fornication and cohabitation before marriage almost doubled in just
five years. People of all ages are fornicating more now than ever before,
especially teen-agers. In 1970, a reported 4.6% of all girls aged 15 had
fornicated before marriage. Of girls aged 15 to 19 years, 28.6% had
experienced sex. In 1990, 33.1% of girls aged 15 had engaged in sexual
contact, and 61.4% of girls aged 15-19 years.

Illegitimate births--> The illegitimacy rate for births among teenaged
girls was around 5-7% before the birth control pill was introduced. In the
1960's, it rose to 10-15%. After 1970, however, when comprehensive sex
education programs and school-based clinics were introduced, the teenage
illegitimacy rate sky-rocketed.

Increased venereal diseases--> In the period from 1920 to 1990, the rate
of venereal disease infection rose 750%.

Based on a census conducted by the United States Department of Commerce, the percentage increases in the activities listed from 1920 to 1990 are as follows:

Murder 454%
Suicide 659%
Rape 300%
Prostitution 600%
Drug Addiction 1,000%
Alcoholism 350%
Abortion 655%
Divorce 632%
Child Abuse 886%
Venereal Diseases 750%

http://people.usd.edu/~clehmann/HWB/hwb_q/fourth.html

That is why adultery and illegitimacy rates rose so significantly. As many women on contraception eventually did get pregnant and because of their mentality they became abusive towards their own children and families. It also makes people more likely to commit adultery because they don't have to worry about their mistresses getting pregnant

We see it much more common among young women today. Who have already been indoctrinated by the contraceptive mentality by the public school systems. It is no surprise we see tons of teenagers having illegitimate children left and right with shows like "Teen Mom" all over the TV. Everywhere young foolish girls are having illegitimate children. Something that was looked down upon and avoided when society had more of a moral backbone. Now we have all these children with mothers who cannot take care of their children because they know nothing about motherhood and domestication. This is what happens when motherhood becomes attacked and careers and personal gain is put over children and family. When the time comes when they do have children or a husband, they are clueless since society ignores how the traditional family operates anymore.

In 1970, only 4.6 percent of all girls aged 15 had fornicated before marriage. In 1990, this rate had increased more than sevenfold to 33.1 percent. Of all unmarried girls in the 15 to 19 age bracket, 28.6 percent had fornicated in 1970. This rate had more than doubled to 61.4 percent by 1990

The illegitimacy rate for births among teenaged girls hovered around five to seven percent for decades, until about 1960. Between 1960 and 1970, it doubled as the birth control pill helped usher in the 'Sexual Revolution.' After 1970, the teenage illegitimacy rate literally exploded as comprehensive sex education programs and school-based clinics were introduced.
The overall illegitimacy rate for all children born in the United States was 5 percent in 1960. This rate has more than quintupled to more than 28%

United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census. Reference Data Book and Guide to Sources, Statistical Abstract of the United States. Washington, DC: United States Government Printing Office. 1990 (110th Edition), 991 pages. Table 56, "Unmarried Couples Living Together," Table 96, "Births By Status of Mother), Table 99, "Contraceptive Use By Women, 15-44 Years Old, By Age, Race, Marital Status, and Method of Contraception: 1982," and Table 127, "Marriages and Divorces."