Is Contraception Destructive?

[Gishin]

why? btw, I love your name. Peace, pat

Tell me what makes condoms or birth control sinful and NFP not.

If you're saying one closes the possibility of pregnancy and the other doesn't, then aren't you limiting the power of God to make someone pregnant if he chooses, as well as making a very poor argument for the effectiveness of NFP?

 

[Magnus_the_Red]

What's destructive is adding another unwanted child into this overpopulated world. Unnecessary suffering.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I think thoes that preach against contraception should raise all the unwanted kids when contraception is no longer avalible. Lack of contraceptoin would lead to alot of over population problems and kids that are simply not cared for becusae there are too many. None of this is really rocket science.

I don't think that anti-contraception people really think about this. It's one thing to preach abstinence-only sex, and it's one thing to practise it, but it's another thing entirely to expect others, especially oversexed, constantly-horny teenagers, to do the same.

 

[patricius79]

Tell me what makes condoms or birth control sinful and NFP not.

please answer my question first: what is "arbitrary and meaningless" about saying that avoiding pregnancy is not intrinsically wrong but contracepted sex is intrinsically wrong?

as to your question: I think that abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy is morally different from having sex with a condom in order to avoid pregnancy because in the second case one is engaging in a sexual while deliberately doing something to avoid fully sharing oneself with the other

in the first case one can be practicing self control with the intention of safeguarding the health of the spouse out of true love. it can be an act of truly loving restraint, as opposed to using someone

 

[Gishin]

please answer my question first: what is "arbitrary and meaningless" about saying that avoiding pregnancy is not intrinsically wrong but contracepted sex is intrinsically wrong?

That is what is stupid and arbitrary.

as to your question: I think that abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy is morally different from having sex with a condom in order to avoid pregnancy because in the second case one is engaging in a sexual while deliberately doing something to avoid fully sharing oneself with the other

in the first case one can be practicing self control with the intention of safeguarding the health of the spouse out of true love. it can be an act of truly loving restraint, as opposed to using someone

The way I see it, you're deliberately avoiding sharing yourself at all when you abstain with your loved one.

Besides, you keep bringing up condoms, what about birth control?

 

[Gishin]

So married people that want to enjoy sex but dont want kids are using each other? And even if that is true in some sense .... so?

The pope doesn't say it because its true, its true because the pope says so.

 

[razeontherock]

please answer my question first: what is "arbitrary and meaningless" about saying that avoiding pregnancy is not intrinsically wrong but contracepted sex is intrinsically wrong?

Please allow me to interject; I find Gishin's stance on the issue to be reasonable, but his attempted answer to this question incomplete.

Contracepted sex, by any means, is avoiding pregnancy. To pretend there is a difference is ... well, I have yet to see a reasonable attempt to justify any such distinction. (And "because the Pope said so" doesn't hold water here.)

Further, contracepted sex is "sharing yourself as fully" as non-contracepted sex. With the only distinction being not "sharing" responsibilities the couple is not ready to handle. (Somehow I fear the point must be stated that if every time any sexual act occurred that a child was born, that our planet would be in a heap of trouble!)

in the first case one can be practicing self control with the intention of safeguarding the health of the spouse out of true love. it can be an act of truly loving restraint, as opposed to using someone

For the benefit of the unbelievers here, they have educated a RC on what the Bible says on this topic:

"women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Romans 1:27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly"

Use is not unnatural, but natural. And Blessed within marriage!

"Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. (1 Corinthians 7:4) The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

Personally, I would be embarrassed to have the unbelieving crowd here show me up on understanding such simple matters within the Bible; but this issue is missed by so many within the household of Faith ...

 

[tulc]

please answer my question first: what is "arbitrary and meaningless" about saying that avoiding pregnancy is not intrinsically wrong but contracepted sex is intrinsically wrong?

as to your question: I think that abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy is morally different from having sex with a condom in order to avoid pregnancy because in the second case one is engaging in a sexual while deliberately doing something to avoid fully sharing oneself with the other

in the first case one can be practicing self control with the intention of safeguarding the health of the spouse out of true love. it can be an act of truly loving restraint, as opposed to using someone

You want to know where you lose me (and probably 99% of everyone who reads your posts about this)? It would be this part right here:

because in the second case one is engaging in a sexual while deliberately doing something to avoid fully sharing oneself with the other (emph. added)

Because right there? You seem to be implying I don't love my spouse as much as you love yours. You can spin it however you like, in the end that's what you're saying. You don't know us you don't have any knowledge of who we are or our relationship with our spouse, but the one fact you seem very sure of is you, and the people who believe as you do. love your spouses more then we love ours.
tulc(knows that's simply not true)

 

[patricius79]

That is what is stupid and arbitrary.

The way I see it, you're deliberately avoiding sharing yourself at all when you abstain with your loved one.

Besides, you keep bringing up condoms, what about birth control?

I thought that you brought up condoms.

why is it "stupid and arbitary"? the idea that periodic abstinence must be morally equivalent to contracepted sex clearly begs the question just as much as the historic Trinitarian position might seem to

as to not giving oneself if one is abstaining... I don't agree. I think that if one's spouse would be hurt by having sex the husband can still give himself and does so by NOT forcing sex

Genuinely hope you are having a blessed day, Gishin. It's a blessing that you have a good mind to use in thinking about moral issues

Peace of Jesus Christ,

pat

 

[razeontherock]

as to not giving oneself if one is abstaining... I don't agree. I think that if one's spouse would be hurt by having sex the husband can still give himself and does so by NOT forcing sex

Ok - but that sure sounds like a rare exception to me. (Besides if it hurts, you're doing something wrong

 

[patricius79]

Ok - but that sure sounds like a rare exception to me.

I think there are many reasons for abstaining from sex at any given moment

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I think there are many reasons for abstaining from sex at any given moment

I agree. And if that reason is to avoid conception, then it's contraceptive.





.

 

[patricius79]

I agree. And if that reason is to avoid contraception, then it's contraceptive.

.

how could avoiding contraception be contraceptive?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

how could avoiding contraception be contraceptive?

I misstated things (it's been corrected). Than you for pointing that out!

 

[patricius79]

I misstated things (it's been corrected). Than you for pointing that out!

no problem brother. I do it all the time.

as to your argument.... I suppose one could use the word that way

I don't see why one would need to assume that having sex with a condom, e.g., is morally equivalent to abstaining from sex, even if the intention in both cases is to avoid pregnancy

and of course, intentions are not singular. it is very different to try to avoid pregnancy in order to protect the health of one's wife and the mother of his children.

that is different from intending to avoid pregnancy so that one doesn't have to give up golf

 

[tulc]

no problem brother. I do it all the time.

as to your argument.... I suppose one could use the word that way

I don't see why one would need to assume that having sex with a condom, e.g., is morally equivalent to abstaining from sex, even if the intention in both cases is to avoid pregnancy

and of course, intentions are not singular. it is very different to try to avoid pregnancy in order to protect the health of one's wife and the mother of his children.

that is different from intending to avoid pregnancy so that one doesn't have to give up golf

So...using a contraceptive is ok as long as you approve of why they're using it?
tulc(just curious)

 

[razeontherock]

Because contraception is destructive - that's the downside! Says so right at the top. Still don't see why or how ...

 

[patricius79]

So...using a contraceptive is ok as long as you approve of why they're using it?
tulc(just curious)

I think that using a contraceptive is always wrong, as likewise having a wrong intention is always wrong, even if one is not doing something intrinstically wrong--e.g. using NFP to achieve or avoid pregnancy

 

[tulc]

I think that using a contraceptive is always wrong, as likewise having a wrong intention is always wrong, even if one is not doing something intrinstically wrong--e.g. using NFP to achieve or avoid pregnancy (emph. added)

I guess it's fortunate it isn't up to you what's right or wrong for my life.
tulc(is drinking an excellent cup of coffee)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think that using a contraceptive is always wrong

What if you want to have sex with your wife but can't afford to feed 12 children?