Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Albion]

No, apostles are not simply missionaries. They could drink poison and not die, and handle deadly snakes. You cant say that about anyone but an apostle

Although the word itself refers to one who is sent out, we do normally reserve the word Apostles for The Twelve whom Christ called personally, plus Matthias and Paul, that's right.

 

[W2L]

Although the word itself refers to one who is sent out, we do normally reserve the word Apostles for The Twelve whom Christ called personally, plus Matthias and Paul, that's right.

Thats who im referring to, yes. Thank you.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you own a Bible and read it, you have his "voice" coming to you.

Is that how it worked for the OT prophets?
Is that how it worked for Jesus?
Why doesn't that work today?
If it's not God, who is it?

 

[Albion]

I find it horrible, those christians that are 'bible only' and not looking more from God himself.

There are all sorts of things in the cosmos or the spirit world that we can neither comprehend in this life nor have any reason to know. The Bible represents that which God, in his wisdom, chose to reveal to us at this time.

 

[JAL]

Whoa. None of us said that God cannot reveal himself vocally--literally vocally. We also affirm that he can show himself in the physical form of a human.

BUT to think that this is routine or even commonplace is neither reasonable nor scriptural.

Sorry you don't get to tell me what is sensible, as long as you're too afraid to even tell me what your epistemic basis is for believing that Scripture is inspired, knowing full well that doing so will confirm my whole position.

Furthermore you've all ignored my repeated challenges to explain how consciousness, thought, and even fellowship with God can be defined without reference to loudness. Again, because any (honest) attempt on your apart to take me up on these challenges would force you to end up admitting that my definitions are correct.

And by 'honest' I mean a clear explanation free of nebulous cliches.

In a nutshell, every evasion and deflection on your part further confirms my position.

 

[Dave L]

Hmm...Earlier you said:

There's a voice in your head? Dave, have you ever sought professional help? Are you on any medication?

So do you hear more than one person (yourself) speaking in your head?

 

[Albion]

Is that how it worked for the OT prophets?
Is that how it worked for Jesus?
Why doesn't that work today?
If it's not God, who is it?

The fact that there were prophets in history says nothing about what we have been talking about here today--the theory that everybody or at least many ordinary Christians who think they have something to say on the subject of religion are legitimate prophets just like the prophets we find in Scripture.

 

[JAL]

Whoa. None of us said that God cannot reveal himself vocally--literally vocally. We also affirm that he can show himself in the physical form of a human.

BUT to think that this is routine or even commonplace is neither reasonable nor scriptural.

No one said it is routine or common place. But what's important is the REASON why it's not common place. WHY was Moses permitted such face-to-face revelations of God? Any why Paul? Is it because God is a respecter of persons? Was Paul under a better covenant than we are? Take a hard look at Num 12:8 - the distinction was based on the FAITHFULNESS of Moses.

Being a prophet isn't routine. It isn't the automatic privilege of every believer. But it's God's will for all believers (1Cor 14:1)

 

[JAL]

So do you hear more than one person (yourself) speaking in your head?

(Sigh). Take me up on some of the challenges. Define a personal relationship with the Father, in clear terms, without reference to loudness.

You won't do it, you're too scared, knowing it will confirm my whole position. You and Albion, both alike, would rather just stand at a remote distance and throw stones, like theological cowards.

 

[Saint Steven]

The fact that there were prophets in history says nothing about what we have been talking about here today--the theory that everybody or at least many ordinary Christians who think they have something to say on the subject of religion are legitimate prophets just like the prophets we find in Scripture.

"... ordinary Christians..." ???
Jesus called a bunch of fishermen to be homeless with him.
Were they not "ordinary Christians"?
And who were the Prophets before they were called? (ordinary)

 

[Dave L]

(Sigh). Take me up on some of the challenges. Define a personal relationship with the Father, in clear terms, without reference to loudness.

You won't do it, you're too scared, knowing it will confirm my whole position. You and Albion, both alike, would rather just stand at a remote distance and throw stones, like theological cowards.

I'm trying to understand your experience. I'll admit, it sounds crazy. But I'm all ears.

 

[Albion]

Sorry you don't get to tell me what is sensible, as long as you're too afraid to even tell me what your epistemic basis is for believing that Scripture is inspired, knowing full well that doing so will confirm my whole position.

Well, I have already addressed all your ideas, and I know now from your replies that the problem here in this dialogue is fundamental. You simply do not understand what the term Sola Scriptura means.

I recommend you look into other sources, since what I explained was not what you were interested in hearing, probably because you have had other issues on your mind.

 

[W2L]

God writes on our hearts.

 

[JAL]

I'm trying to understand your experience. I'll admit, it sounds crazy. But I'm all ears.

Maybe you're not following me. I am asking you to try to understand YOUR experience.

Do you have a personal relationship with the Father? If you try to tell me that all you have is a 2,000 year old book, I will ask, how is that personal? And why does the NT speak of fellowship with the Holy Spirit?

Once you agree that it is personal, and I hope you will, can it be defined without loudness? You can reply, 'Ok I have no theory. I'm lost here' - but if you do so, shouldn't you be cautious about lampooning MY theory? At least I have one. And take a look at Romans 8:
"For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. f And by him we cry, “Abba, g Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."

That sounds like a personal relationship to me. Strikes me as clear case of loudness. If you disagree, explain that passage to me, in clear terms, without reference to loudness.

 

[Albion]

No one said it is routine or common place.

In fact, that IS the issue. As I noted before, we all agree that God CAN do this. The question is whether or not it is exceptional. The discussion began on the premise that some Christians believe that the Gifts, generally understood, have ceased. The opposite of that would be that they are a normal and expected part of church life.

 

[JAL]

Well, I have already addressed all your ideas, and I know now from your replies that the problem here in this dialogue is fundamental. You simply do not understand what the term Sola Scriptura means.

I recommend you look into other sources, since what I explained was not what you were interested in hearing, probably because you have had other issues on your mind.

As expected. My challenges are ignored. You haven't addressed anything specific.

 

[W2L]

The truth is that a mature christian needs no teacher, apostle, or prophet, besides those in scripture. God didnt give us a weighty and burdensome religion but gave His Spirit and word too. Those who love Him have found him not with human eyes and ears but spiritual.

1 Corinthians 29 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

 

[Albion]

As expected. My challenges are ignored. You haven't addressed anything specific.

I addressed them all, even in the face of repeated insults; but each time I tried the reply was about something else, not what I had laid out for you. So good-bye.

 

[JAL]

In fact, that IS the issue. As I noted before, we all agree that God CAN do this. The question is whether or not it is exceptional. The discussion began on the premise that some Christians believe that the Gifts, generally understood, have ceased. The opposite of that would be that they are a normal and expected part of church life.

False dichotomy. And you took my words out of context. I was referring to face to face revelations of God which are NOT commonplace, although they were supposed to be, by reason of loudness, as discussed earlier (I think it was post 396, will have to check).

You might also have a look at post 278 where I demonstrate that Jesus defines the true evangelist as someone who bears testimony based on face-to-face visions of God.

What people call 'evangelism' today is NOT what God had in mind, and it's far less effective.

 

[JAL]

I addressed them all, even in the face of repeated insults; but each time I tried the reply was about something else, not what I had laid out for you. So good-bye.

That's funny. You haven't even told us why you believe the Bible is inspired. 600 posts deep. As expected, of course.