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Is Christian Zionism Scriptural?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by SilverSpoon, May 22, 2021.

  1. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    Intro

    Christian Zionism is believed by many Christians (unknown percentage), and of course it is believed to have scriptural origins. I want to explore this idea here, and see if it holds up.

    First we must define the belief : the return of the Jews to the Holy Land and the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 were in accordance with Bible prophecy. Also believed is that Jews are "chosen" and still have a covenant with God.

    What is the supposed basis for this doctrine? There is no explicit mention of a future state of Israel anywhere in the Old or New testament, however it is interpreted from various verses.

    Abrahamic Covenant

    One of them is such :

    And I will establish my covenant between me and thee, and between thy seed after thee in their generations, by a perpetual covenant: to be a God to thee, and to thy seed after thee. (Genesis 17:7)


    Seems rather clear, however the covenant (Abrahamic) has multiple parts. One is the land (Israel / Palestine). This one was already fulfilled when the ancient Kingdom of Israel was established :

    41 The towns of the Levites in the territory held by the Israelites were forty-eight in all, together with their pasturelands. 42 Each of these towns had pasturelands surrounding it; this was true for all these towns. 43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. (Joshua 21:41-43)

    Salvation of Israel Covenant

    This is based on Romans 11, a Zionist favorite.

    All Israel Will Be Saved
    25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

    “The deliverer will come from Zion;
    he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
    27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”


    Seems clear again, however it's important to read carefully and have some biblical knowledge as always. The covenant part starts with "as it is written", it is referencing something already written. But what?

    20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
    to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
    declares the Lord.

    21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.


    Isaiah 59 is what. It's a reference to Jesus first coming. He came to Zion, that was the new covenant with those who became Christians. This is no small error! Not understanding this has people believing in some third covenant with a future state of Israel, which simply does not exist.

    -- edit --

    Further note, Israel here refers to those who accept Christ as evidenced by other verses :

    It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.” (Romans 9:6-9)

    Jews Still Chosen?

    Christian Zionists claim that Jews are still chosen, this requires scriptural evidence in the new testament. But what does the NT actually say?

    Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:11-12)

    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. (1 Peter 2:9)

    A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2 : 28-29)

    Abundantly clear that God has no ethnic favorites, including Jews. Also clear that faith in Christ is what makes you chosen, and most Jews do not accept Him. What happens to those who don't accept Christ?

    For Moses said, "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people." (Acts 3:23-24)

    Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:5-6)

    Clear.

    Conclusion

    In my research I have concluded that Christian Zionism is in fact not scriptural, and is based on cherry pick, misreading, and misunderstanding of the Bible. Please share your thoughts, thanks for reading.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
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  2. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    The key is that the Body of Christ and Israel are separate entities.

    In the Body of Christ, there is neither Jew nor gentile, as you have quoted from Paul.

    But in Israel, there are only Jews. Right now, true Israel are the Jews who believe, they are the little flock.

    Natural Israel has fallen, and they will be restored in Romans 11:25 passage you have quoted.
     
  3. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    Not sure where you got "true Israel" as being Jews. Romans 11 refers to the first coming of Christ, as I explained. It is a reference to Isaiah 59, which predicts the coming of Jesus.
     
  4. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying you believe we gentiles who are in the Body of Christ, are also part of Israel?
     
  5. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    Romans 11 refers to the ancient land of Israel. "The deliverer will come from Zion". Zion is a word for Palestine / Israel as a place.

    -- edit --

    The above is wrong, I got my verses mixed up. Romans 11 refers to Christians as Israel.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  6. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    But is your answer a yes or no to my question?
     
  7. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    I would yes, Israel also refers to Christians :

    Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:15-16)
     
  8. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    It was Israel/the 12 Jewish disciples that formed the body of Christ. When Gentiles believe, they are grafted onto/into that body like new branches on an olive tree.

    There is only ONE body, ONE church, ONE bride. It started with believing Jews and later believing Gentiles joined them.
     
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  9. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    You are quoting the Body of Christ there, not Israel.

    As I said, the key is to understand that the Body of Christ is NOT Israel.
     
  10. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, from our previous exchanges, I understand your doctrine is that True Israel is the Body of Christ.

    We can agree to disagree.
     
  11. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Impossible as they were the original body of Christ.
     
  12. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    It uses the word Israel there, does it not? What do you mean by Israel then?
     
  13. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Paul wrote Romans so he is part of the "we" here:

    Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
    Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
     
  14. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    The Israel of God in Galatians 6, that you quoted, refers to the little flock, whose chief leader was James the brother of Jesus.

    As Acts 21:20-25 indicated, James continue to believe that all of them must still physically circumcise their children at 8 days old, and be zealous for the Law of Moses.

    So they are definitely not the Body of Christ who believe otherwise in Galatians 6:15
     
  15. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    You think its impossible because you are unable to distinguish between Israel and the Body of Christ.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    There is only a difference between faithless Israel and the BOC but there is zero difference between Faithful Israel and the BOC because Faithful Israel IS the BOC.
     
  17. ewq1938

    ewq1938 It's easy to say anything but hard to say nothing. Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    This is like saying I am unable to distinguish between the Messiah and the Christ.
     
  18. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    As I said, we can agree to disagree here.
     
  19. SilverSpoon

    SilverSpoon New Member

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    Okay but not sure what that has to do with my topic.
     
  20. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    So to answer your question, since natural Israel is currently fallen in the eyes of God, there is no need for the Body of Christ to especially support Israel.

    God himself will ensure that Israel, the entire nation, will finally acknowledge his Son as their promised Messiah, at the end of the Tribulation, as you stated in Romans 11:25-27.

    That tribulation period will take place when God decided that the final member of the Body of Christ has come in (Romans 11:25), as you quoted "until the full number of the Gentiles has come in"
     
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