Is "Christian Zionism" Biblical ?

[BABerean2]

A great deal of time and energy has been devoted on this forum to the question of how the modern State of Israel will be involved in end time events.

Many claim there are unfulfilled Old Testament promises which belong to modern people based on a sample of their DNA.

This has led many Christians to view the modern State of Israel as a fulfillment of God's plan. Some have even sent money to help rebuild a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

In this thread we will examine the modern Zionist movement, and compare it to scripture.

We will start with a few questions.

1. Were those involved in the modern Zionist movement Jews devoted to the Old Testament God of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob?

2. What does the New Testament say about genealogy?

3. Can a modern person of any race come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church, based on what is found in the New Testament?

......................................................................

James Perloff has studied the globalist agenda for many years.
At one time he was a writer for "The New American" magazine.

Often anyone who dares to question the Zionist movement or the modern State of Israel is labeled as an "anti-Semite".
The father of James Perloff was Jewish.

In the video below James discusses what he believes are the connections between modern Zionism and the movement to push us into a one world government.
Please judge what he says based on scripture and the historical facts.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

A great deal of time and energy has been devoted on this forum to the question of how the modern State of Israel will be involved in end time events.

Many claim there are unfulfilled Old Testament promises which belong to modern people based on a sample of their DNA.

This has led many Christians to view the modern State of Israel as a fulfillment of God's plan. Some have even sent money to help rebuild a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

In this thread we will examine the modern Zionist movement, and compare it to scripture.

We will start with a few questions.

1. Were those involved in the modern Zionist movement Jews devoted to the Old Testament God of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob?

2. What does the New Testament say about genealogy?

3. Can a modern person of any race come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church, based on what is found in the New Testament?

......................................................................

James Perloff has studied the globalist agenda for many years.
At one time he was a writer for "The New American" magazine.

Often anyone who dares to question the Zionist movement or the modern State of Israel is labeled as an "anti-Semite".
The father of James Perloff was Jewish.

In the video below James discusses what he believes are the connections between modern Zionism and the movement to push us into a one world government.
Please judge what he says based on scripture and the historical facts.

Agenda of Jesus is global and all-human, not local or national. There's no "chosen people". The whole world has been chosen by the love of Jesus.

 

[geiroffenberg]

i support israels right to exist and defend themselves as a nation and the jewish people is still the jewish people loved for their role in bringin the gospel. BUT the city jerusalem and the temple was destroyed for a reason. There is no biblical jewish priesthood and animal sacrifice to be re instituted on the temple square. that would be a direct denial of the eternal gospel.
IThe time of the law with the temple and whatever its role was, was over when it was said it was over, and all the kings horses and all the kings men couldnt put humpty dumpty together again.

 

[expos4ever]

I suggest that a careful reading of Paul shows that he believed that the work of Jesus (life, death, resurrection) effectively brought the special status of Israel to an end. As of the cross, Paul argues, the "Israel project" has come to an end. If this is true, then we should treat Israel no differently than any other nation.

 

[SeventyOne]

I suggest that a careful reading of Paul shows that he believed that the work of Jesus (life, death, resurrection) effectively brought the special status of Israel to an end. As of the cross, Paul argues, the "Israel project" has come to an end. If this is true, then we should treat Israel no differently than any other nation.

Paul argues that the salvation of the Gentiles was to make Israel jealous. That doesn't sound like identical treatment to me.

 

[expos4ever]

Paul argues that the salvation of the Gentiles was to make Israel jealous. That doesn't sound like identical treatment to me.

What I meant was that Paul sees the Jews as not having any remaining unfulfilled promises to them still on the table. In the text you refer to from Romans 11, Paul is simply saying that God can even use Jewish jealousy of what God has done for Gentiles to draw Jews into Jesus' worldwide family.

While there are some challenging texts to deal with, I think the overall picture is fairly clear: Paul sees Jesus as completing the Israel project - He (Jesus) takes on Israel's covenant obligations and fulfills them.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Paul argues that the salvation of the Gentiles was to make Israel jealous. That doesn't sound like identical treatment to me.

agreed. But we must seperate between the jewish people and the modern state of israel.
meaning: becuae of who the jewish people are, from the view point of the gospel, they can not be easily unlinked from that hsitory and role. BUT as a modern state, their equal to every other nations. So no special role for the temple square and a coming temple of god on that place. We have something far better.

 

[geiroffenberg]

id like to add that romans 11, is not zionist and neither is it replacement theology,. Christians seem to always only think these are the only two options. Romans 11 is that only the unbelivers was broken off that tree but the promises for israel went on trough the church, not replaced it. Therefor he says the nation israel is not "real" israel, in the sense of being gods covenant people, that is only those who received messiah (who was a loooot of jews) and among them the gentiles was allowed to enter the same covenant. So no zionism and no replacement theology. Just one stream of god dealing with his people.

 

[SeventyOne]

What I meant was that Paul sees the Jews as not having any remaining unfulfilled promises to them still on the table. In the text you refer to from Romans 11, Paul is simply saying that God can even use Jewish jealousy of what God has done for Gentiles to draw Jews into Jesus' worldwide family.

While there are some challenging texts to deal with, I think the overall picture is fairly clear: Paul sees Jesus as completing the Israel project - He (Jesus) takes on Israel's covenant obligations and fulfills them.

Where does Paul make the argument there are no unfulfilled promises to the Jews?

 

[SeventyOne]

agreed. But we must seperate between the jewish people and the modern state of israel.
meaning: becuae of who the jewish people are, from the view point of the gospel, they can not be easily unlinked from that hsitory and role. BUT as a modern state, their equal to every other nations. So no special role for the temple square and a coming temple of god on that place. We have something far better.

We know from Zechariah that in the end 2/3rds will perish but 1/3rd will be saved when they cry out to Jesus, the one whom they pierced. They will be saved by the same faith we have been saved. There's no separate path to salvation. It's to these Jews and their offspring where most of the unfulfilled promises will see their fulfillment.

 

[BABerean2]

1. Were those involved in the modern Zionist movement Jews devoted to the Old Testament God of Abraham, Issaac, and Jacob?


Were those who founded and promoted modern Zionism religious Jews or secular Jews?


Theodor Herzl is considered by many to be the "father" of modern Zionism.
You will find in the article below that he made the choice to not have his son circumcised, as is the normal custom of religious Jews.

"His only son Hans was given a secular upbringing and Herzl notably refused to allow him to be circumcised."


There is also no evidence that Herzl viewed Zionism as a religious movement, but rather as a political movement.

At one point in time there was an effort to establish a homeland for the Jews in Kenya.
(Uganda Scheme - Wikipedia)


Theodor Herzl - Wikipedia

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[Ron Gurley]

Supercessionism: http://christianeschatology.com/supersessionism_replacement_theology.htm

https://bible.org/seriespage/session-2-church-and-israel-defense-replacement-theology

When the Hebrew Nation rejected Jesus as the Divine Messiah, its 70 weeks of weeks "clock" stopped.

See Daniel chapters 11-12.

There is only one "week"= 7 years left until all of Israel's promises/covenants are fulfilled. God keeps his "word"!!

Psalm 118:22
The stone (Jesus) which the builders (Israel) rejected has become the chief corner stone.(of the Church)

Matthew 23:37 ...Jesus' Lament over Jerusalem (Israel?)
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together,
the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings,
and you were unwilling. (rejection of Divine Messiah)

Isaiah 28:16
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,
" Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, a costly cornerstone
for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Matthew 21 (NASB)
42 Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures,
'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,
AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?

43 "Therefore I say to you (Hebrew Nation) , the kingdom of God will be taken away from you
and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
44 "And he who falls on (trips over) this stone will be broken to pieces;
but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.


Matthew 24: Jesus' PROPHECY:... Signs: End of the Church Age ...the TRIBULATION and GREAT TRIBULATION...4-28 (NASB)
leading up to the SECOND COMING....29-31
v. 3...(Disciples...what will be the sign(s) of your (SECOND) coming and of the end of the (CHURCH) age?"

Possible Time Line BUILT primarily on Matthew 24:

1. Begin the birth of the "Church Age" of Grace...Pentecost...Acts 1 + 2

2. Jesus promises to be with us in Spirit until the "end of the age" Matthew 28: last verses
...ascends/descends from the Mount of Olives...Matt 20:20; Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11

3. Pre-Tribulation "Birth Pangs"...NOW!...Matthew 24: 4-8

4. Begin TRIBULATION...first 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years
...rise of the anti-christ + REBUILD the TEMPLE! = his appearance in that TEMPLE...Matthew 24:9-20,22
...WHEN "TRIB" begins? TIME Unknown!

5. Rapture and Second Coming...finally to a throne in Jerusalem as King of Kings . Revelation 20:6

6. Begin GREAT TRIBULATION...Last 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years...leading up to Armageddon...Matthew 24:21-27

7. Begin the Millenium Reign...Satan Bound...Revelation 20...144,000 Jewish missionaries: Messiah Has COME!

8. Planet Earth and unsaved inhabitants destroyed by fire. 2 Peter 3

8. New Heavens + New Earth + New Jerusalem = eternal spiritual realm...Revelation 21

 

[BABerean2]

Supercessionism: http://christianeschatology.com/supersessionism_replacement_theology.htm

https://bible.org/seriespage/session-2-church-and-israel-defense-replacement-theology

When the Hebrew Nation rejected Jesus as the Divine Messiah, its 70 weeks of weeks "clock" stopped.

See Daniel chapters 11-12.

There is only one "week"= 7 years left until all of Israel's promises/covenants are fulfilled. God keeps his "word"!!

Replacement Theology is replacing...


the One Seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.


Israel of the Promise, with Israel of the Flesh in Romans 9:8.


the Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles in Romans chapter 11, with a Church made up of Gentiles.

the covenant with the many, which is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28 (as confirmed by Hebrews 10:16-18), with a treaty broken by an antichrist not in the text, by adding a "gap" of time not in the text, in Daniel 9:27.


the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26.


the covenant fulfilled at Calvary for all races of people, with a covenant fulfilled in the future with the modern State of Israel, in Romans 11:27.


It ignores the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


It claims that modern Jews will one day come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church.
Therefore, it has replaced the New Covenant Church as the ultimate fulfillment of God's plan, even though the Church was revealed by the Son of God in Matthew chapter 16 and Christ said on the road to Emmaus that the Old Testament was about Him.


It claims the land where Christ was crucified now belongs to a group of people, based on their genealogy instead of a relationship with God's Son, by ignoring Matthew 3:9, and 1 Timothy 1:4, and 1 John 2:22-23.


.

 

[expos4ever]

Where does Paul make the argument there are no unfulfilled promises to the Jews?

From 2 Corinthians 1:20

For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes;

But there are many more reasons for believing that Paul sees the "Israel project" as having come to an end at the cross. More later, hopefully.

 

[expos4ever]

I suggest that Paul believes the following:

1. God has fulfilled (in the "brought to a successful conclusion" sense) the covenant with Israel at the cross.

2. Therefore, and as what I believe is a reasonable take on 2 Corinthians 1:20, all covenantal promises have now been fulfilled;

3. The aim of the covenant was not to have a special people set aside for God forever, but rather to choose a particular people - the Jews - to serve as the means by which all the nations will be blessed. This larger goal of the covenant is spelled out in the very first covenant-establishing passage in Genesis. And more specifically, it can be reasonably inferred in hindsight that the way the nations will be blessed is through the defeat of death and sin.

4. Israel failed in holding up her end of the covenant. So does God cast the covenant aside and send Jesus as "Plan B"? No: Jesus is the one faithful Israelite who takes on Israel's covenantal obligations and fulfills them on the cross. Jesus, in effect, is Israel "wrapped up into one person".

5. With Jesus' accomplishment at Calvary and on Easter Sunday, the covenant has achieved all its objectives and is set aside.

6. There is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile (per that famous line from Galatians. God in no way distinguishes the Jew from the Gentile from the cross forward.

 

[BABerean2]

We will look again at the first question in this thread.
Were those who promoted the modern state of Israel those of secular beliefs or those who promoted the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

A letter between the British government and Lord Rothschild promised to create a modern Jewish state.
That letter came to be known as the "Balfour Declaration".

Here is part of the text of that letter.

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Below we find a link to the Balfour Declaration and also to Lord Rothschild who was a descendant of the famous banking dynasty and who had a child out of wedlock.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild - Wikipedia

.

 

[SeventyOne]

From 2 Corinthians 1:20

For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes;

But there are many more reasons for believing that Paul sees the "Israel project" as having come to an end at the cross. More later, hopefully.

2 Corinthians 1 doesn't mention anything about God's plans for national Israel. But if you are referencing the topic that God fulfills His promises, then I wouls argue that point doesn't play in your favor as there are some promises to Israel yet unfulfilled.

 

[SeventyOne]

6. There is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile (per that famous line from Galatians. God in no way distinguishes the Jew from the Gentile from the cross forward.

That's Galatians 3:28 and it's indicating a measure of equality before the Lord, but it doesn't do away with the actual nature of people. The Gentile is still a Gentile, and a Jew a Jew, just as a male is still a male and a female a female. One doesn't have a greater standing with God based on their attributes, but that doesn't mean the attributes cease to exist.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[jgr]

2 Corinthians 1 doesn't mention anything about God's plans for national Israel. But if you are referencing the topic that God fulfills His promises, then I wouls argue that point doesn't play in your favor as there are some promises to Israel yet unfulfilled.

Is that why every dispensational bible has a third "Unfulfilled Promises" testament?

 

[expos4ever]

2 Corinthians 1 doesn't mention anything about God's plans for national Israel.

While the covenant is not explicitly mentioned, it is at least plausible that Paul is referring to the covenantal promises - a major theme of the Old Testament;

But if you are referencing the topic that God fulfills His promises, then I wouls argue that point doesn't play in your favor as there are some promises to Israel yet unfulfilled.

Which ones?