Is celebrating xmas a sin??

[danny ski]

So Gentiles had no access nor could not convert to Judaism ?

All were Gentiles until circumcised to enter into covenant yes?

Why only the bloodline of Abraham was God favor to enter into covenant and the rest of the world not allowed? I thought it was Jews responsibility to convert men to God through entering the old covenant






So you believe there will always be a temple one day and the old covenant exist forever? You don't believe the New Testament account of revelation which says there will be no more temple?




why does there need to be a renewal of the old covenant between Jews and God?... What happened that there needs to be a renewal? Is it for a new generation of Jews to keep because the last generation failed to keep? Just trying to comprehend your views

The non Jews always had access to our covenant, if they wanted to. Same as today. It's a choice. They're not mandated under Torah to follow our way unless they live among us in the land. That's right in the text. I believe that the Temple will be rebuilt and I don't put any credence in Revelation - I'm Jewish. It's not my scripture. As for the renewal of the Covenant- the text of Jeremiah says it all.

 

[dfw69]

What about these verses?



Hebrews 13:17English Standard Version (ESV)

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.


Romans 13:2English Standard Version (ESV)

2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.


Titus 3:1English Standard Version (ESV)

3 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

To a point we submit to authorities ..we should not fear their judgement ... Matthew 10:28

I rather face man judgement and please God than obey man to sin against man and God

War is a good example ..if they were to draft us we should resist sin ...and sin not

 

[dfw69]

The non Jews always had access to our covenant, if they wanted to. Same as today. It's a choice. They're not mandated under Torah to follow our way unless they live among us in the land. That's right in the text. I believe that the Temple will be rebuilt and I don't put any credence in Revelation - I'm Jewish. It's not my scripture. As for the renewal of the Covenant- the text of Jeremiah says it all.

O I'm sorry I did not know that .. I thought you were messianic

 

[dfw69]

The non Jews always had access to our covenant, if they wanted to. Same as today. It's a choice. They're not mandated under Torah to follow our way unless they live among us in the land. That's right in the text. I believe that the Temple will be rebuilt and I don't put any credence in Revelation - I'm Jewish. It's not my scripture. As for the renewal of the Covenant- the text of Jeremiah says it all.

What does Jeremiah say about the reason for a renewed covenant and does it say why the sacrifices in the temple are different?

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Is there anyone who has the Bible version without chapters etc. I'm now having to remove them manually to see what God said or was trying to say.

EG
Numbers 12
Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2“Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this.
3(Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. 5Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, 6he said, “Listen to my words:
When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
7But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.

8With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

WITHOUT VS
Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. “Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this. (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.) At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, he said, “Listen to my words:
When there is a prophet among you,

I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

i LOVE WHEN ITS WITHOUT THE VERSES :/

 

[visionary]

Is there anyone who has the Bible version without chapters etc. I'm now having to remove them manually to see what God said or was trying to say.

EG
Numbers 12
Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2“Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this.
3(Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. 5Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, 6he said, “Listen to my words:
When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
7But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.

8With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

WITHOUT VS
Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. “Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the Lord heard this. (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.) At once the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the tent of meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them went out. Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When the two of them stepped forward, he said, “Listen to my words:
When there is a prophet among you,

I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

i LOVE WHEN ITS WITHOUT THE VERSES :/

I think they put the verses numbers in so that debates could be specific to the verse and the words contained in them. Without these notations, I can see where the flow of context is seen more clearly.

 

[BukiRob]

Doomed?... I did not imply that ... But there was no practicing of keeping the feast during captivity was there? Are there any writings of keeping the feast while under captivity? I assume keeping the feast is a part of temple worship ...I also assume keeping the feast was probably forbidden while in a foreign country ...

Are you suggesting that those not keeping the feast is doom?

Yes, ABSOLUTELY the jews kept the feasts while in captivity. Torah is VERY clear about observing the passover and feast of unleavened bread wherever you may be.

 

[BukiRob]

Why are you confusing me? Are people celebrating Feast of Lights or are they celebrating a symbolic date of Jesus' birth? Even though none of them make sense considering the Symbolic DOB of Christ ishotly contested as either Pagan or Hebrew.

They are 2 different things....

The Festival of Lights had to do with the rededication of the temple and the miracle G-d did with the oil for the fire. It is mere coincidence that Hanukah happens to fall near Saturnalia (the pagan holiday that later became Christmas)

 

[Albion]

They are 2 different things....

The Festival of Lights had to do with the rededication of the temple and the miracle G-d did with the oil for the fire. It is mere coincidence that Hanukah happens to fall near Saturnalia (the pagan holiday that later became Christmas)

The pagan holiday DID NOT become Christmas. The two are not the same, do not commemorate the same deity or events, and don't have the same rituals. Christmas was placed at the same time as the pagan holiday in order to upstage it. It is quite incorrect to say that the one holiday "became" the other one.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

If the Birth of Mashiach is more consistent with Sukkot then should people celebrate the December Holiday anyways? We'll have to consider the fact that the Origin of Yeshua was Israel and if their Dates are true in every sense of it then their conviction is very correct in terms of observing the Feast Days and If I were to be asked there's a place for the festivals in both the Former Covenant and the New Covenant. So inasmuch as there were good intentions of upstaging the day, the best way would have been observing the Jewish Day :/ And anyway, doesn't the October date of when Mashiach was realistically born offstage the need for the December "feast?"

 

[Albion]

And anyway, doesn't the October date of when Mashiach was realistically born offstage the need for the December "feast?"

If it were known for a fact that an October birthdate were correct, you could make such an argument, but we don't know that. Long after the December date was chosen, the idea of an October nativity began to gain support. But even if it were accepted by all, that doesn't do a thing to address the point about a pagan feast allegedly being adopted and perpetuated by Christians, blah blah blah, none of which is true.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Are you defending x-mas? So if it wasn't the day Jesus was born why do people need to observe it? I stopped observing it about 8 years ago after realizing it was placed there to upstage a pagan festival. So I felt, I owed the date -0- because it was a presumed celebration.

 

[Albion]

Are you defending x-mas?

LOL I'm willing to defend celebrating the birth of Christ, if that's what you mean.

So if it wasn't the day Jesus was born why do people need to observe it?

We do not know on which day he was born, so any date chosen is a guess. But if we want to commemorate the birth of our savior, yes, it follows that we'll designate one, just as is done with any civic or religious holiday observed by anyone else.

I stopped observing it about 8 years ago after realizing it was placed there to upstage a pagan festival. So I felt, I owed the date -0- because it was a presumed celebration.

Well, that would be a mistake. Although the date of December 25 was selected in part to upstage a pagan festival, the Christians did want to commemorate Christ's birth, and it was believed at that time that the death of Jesus did occur on the anniversary of his conception (placing it at the end of December), so the date was not purely arbitrary and, more important, it hardly would be correct to think that we have Christmas ONLY in order to upstage the pagan festival you're referring to.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

I'm having a trouble thread http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ough-torah-unblemished.7959075/#post-69975665 and I need someone to explain the real sins behind carving out images.

 

[Meowzltov]

So I am finding out that xmas is a sin, is it??

No, it is not a sin.

Your source is filled with errors. Keep doing research, and you'll find that all the sites contradict each other. Your only hope is to learn to discriminate the QUALITY of the source.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

No, it is not a sin.

Your source is filled with errors. Keep doing research, and you'll find that all the sites contradict each other. Your only hope is to learn to discriminate the QUALITY of the source.

So what's the truth about x-mas!

 

[Meowzltov]

So what's the truth about x-mas!

It's a nice time of the year to celebrate the Nativity.

 

[visionary]

It's a nice time of the year to celebrate the Nativity.

Just not an accurate time. Habits are hard to break for some people, even with evidence to the contrary.

 

[gadar perets]

Although the date of December 25 was selected in part to upstage a pagan festival, the Christians did want to commemorate Christ's birth, and it was believed at that time that the birth of Jesus did occur on the anniversary of his conception (placing it at the end of December), ...

His birth and conception could not be at the same time of year. If he was conceived in December, his birth had to be around September/October.

 

[Albion]

His birth and conception could not be at the same time of year. If he was conceived in December, his birth had to be around September/October.

I'm glad for your sharp eyes! So let's run that information by the readers again. It was believed that he was crucified on the anniversary of his conception. His crucifixion occurred at the start of April, so if that was the time of the year in which he was conceived, his birth would be placed at approximately late December.