Kenny'sID

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Genuine saving faith PRODUCES works

And?

Hopefully you will answer all the following questions.

Must you do works in order to get to heaven? Jesus says we will go to hell if we don't take care of the poor/needy (Sheep/Goats scripture), as well as if we do evil and not good, we will go too hell.

So, does your faith include doing as Christ says, or is it you only need say you have faith? If your answer to that is yes we need only claim to have faith, no works required, then your faith is dead as clearly stated in the bible.

Will you please give me your definition of dead.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And?

Hopefully you will answer all the following questions.

Must you do works in order to get to heaven? Jesus says we will go to hell if we don't take care of the poor/needy (Sheep/Goats scripture), as well as if we do evil and not good, we will go too hell.

So, does your faith include doing as Christ says, or is it you only need say you have faith? If your answer to that is yes we need only claim to have faith, no works required, then your faith is dead as clearly stated in the bible.

Will you please give me your definition of dead.

It’s faith and love that is required brother Kenny. Faith and love is what produces works.

“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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reformed05

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And?

Hopefully you will answer all the following questions.


Must you do works in order to get to heaven? Jesus says we will go to hell if we don't take care of the poor/needy (Sheep/Goats scripture), as well as if we do evil and not good, we will go too hell.

So, does your faith include doing as Christ says, or is it you only need say you have faith? If your answer to that is yes we need only claim to have faith, no works required, then your faith is dead as clearly stated in the bible.

Will you please give me your definition of dead.

dead as used in James means non existent. He is saying if no works are produced then faith doesn't exist in that person. That if someone claims to have faith yet there is no evidence of a life that is yielded to Christ the claim of faith is false. And I am talking about saving faith as is James. The works are not a part of your salvation, they are a product of a life and heart that have been changed by your faith that you need a savior and Jesus is your Savior. The only Savior.

It is possible for people to do all kinds of good works and be kind and upstanding citizens without any saving faith in Jesus. But that will not get them to Heaven. The only way is Jesus.
Jesus often compared be!rivers and unbelievers using agricultural metaphors. Vine/branches, the parable of the soils, the fig tree; as a way of showing that ABIDING in Him, belonging to Him, produces fruit, or a crop. The crop doesn't come first. It comes from a source. The vine, the soil, the root. Anything that isn't producing fruit is not in Him. If they were they Would be producing fruit. Works. And we must be careful to not get legalistic or narrow about what works are. It involves all that the Bible teaches about how we are to live as His children. So it is not to be measured by only what we can see on the outside. Good activities. Yes we are to be generous and help the poor but also included in works are our behaviors and attitudes. All our ways are to be submitted to His ways. We will not get it perfectly and certainly not all the time while we are here but we keep growing and learning. Our hearts remain loyal to Him.
So where there is faith there WILL be works. That is what it means in James by "I will show you my faith by my works." The works won't save us. They are the FRUIT of the Spirit.
 
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We’re trying to stick with the topic in the OP. Does Calvin’s theology make God’s judgement unjust?

Yes. I believe Calvinism is unjust. Any real world example or parable made would prove that this is so.

For example: If a man creates a robot with free will to do either good and evil, and it chooses evil, and it creates a series of bad robots only (of itself), and the creator had the power to create a program that would turn these bad robot offspring into good robots by the use of a remote control radio switch, and he refused to do so and he just punished them, would the creator be fair and just? No. The creator of the robots would be at fault for not stopping these robots from being evil, and he would be at fault for punishing them that is beyond their capacity to do as a part of their programming.

It would be like a coast guard choosing to only a rescue a few individuals within a group who are lost at sea when he could have easily rescued the whole group. There was no real rhyme or reason why the coast guard chose to rescue the select few within the group. He just let the rest of the group perish at sea for no real good reason when he could have saved them all. This is why I believe Calvinism is unjust. They cannot explain how Calvinism is just. It will never happen. They will never be able to explain it.
 
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It’s faith and love that is required brother Kenny. Faith and love is what produces works.

“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Yes, we need faith and love as a part of having works of faith. I also believe it is primarily the work of God done through the believer. We have to ask God to do the good work through us. We have to obey His commandments if we love Jesus. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Jesus says we will abide in His love if we keep His commandments (John 15:10). But I believe die hard adherents to Calvinism do not understand this. They think Jesus said, "those I have elected so as to love me, will keep my commandments." But they don't even believe that because many I have talked with have told me they can sin and still be saved on some level. For them, even the decision of Christ on the part of man is somehow giving glory to man and it is not giving the glory to God. They see any effort by man as a part of the cooperation of God as unjust because it takes away God's grace as being a gift. They want God to get the glory. Little do they realize that this leads to unjust conclusions about our Creator and Savior, though.
 
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dead as used in James means non existent. He is saying if no works are produced then faith doesn't exist in that person. That if someone claims to have faith yet there is no evidence of a life that is yielded to Christ the claim of faith is false. And I am talking about saving faith as is James. The works are not a part of your salvation, they are a product of a life and heart that have been changed by your faith that you need a savior and Jesus is your Savior. The only Savior.

It is possible for people to do all kinds of good works and be kind and upstanding citizens without any saving faith in Jesus. But that will not get them to Heaven. The only way is Jesus.
Jesus often compared be!rivers and unbelievers using agricultural metaphors. Vine/branches, the parable of the soils, the fig tree; as a way of showing that ABIDING in Him, belonging to Him, produces fruit, or a crop. The crop doesn't come first. It comes from a source. The vine, the soil, the root. Anything that isn't producing fruit is not in Him. If they were they Would be producing fruit. Works. And we must be careful to not get legalistic or narrow about what works are. It involves all that the Bible teaches about how we are to live as His children. So it is not to be measured by only what we can see on the outside. Good activities. Yes we are to be generous and help the poor but also included in works are our behaviors and attitudes. All our ways are to be submitted to His ways. We will not get it perfectly and certainly not all the time while we are here but we keep growing and learning. Our hearts remain loyal to Him.
So where there is faith there WILL be works. That is what it means in James by "I will show you my faith by my works." The works won't save us. They are the FRUIT of the Spirit.

It is more than just having good works. One has to live holy, as well. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). For Jesus told those believers who did wonderful works in Christ's name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity or sin (Matthew 7:23 cf. Matthew 7:26-27). This is why Christ did not know them (See: 1 John 2:3-4).

In Calvinism: You don't even have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling as Scripture commands of us (See: Philippians 2:12). God elects you to be a certain way (good or bad) based on no conditions within the individual; Hence, why I believe Calvinism is unjust, and unbiblical. In most versions of Calvinism: Sin does not separate a believer from God. They are sinners saved by God's grace. Sure, in Calvinism: Some may say that they sort of live more progressively holy, but this is never clearly defined, and it does not mean one cannot still sin and still be saved or disobey God's commands and be good with the Lord. That to me is unjust. No king would allow disloyal servants in his service.
 
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Kenny'sID

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dead as used in James means non existent. He is saying if no works are produced then faith doesn't exist in that person. That if someone claims to have faith yet there is no evidence of a life that is yielded to Christ the claim of faith is false

While many who are saved, stop acting right, and will be lost again at some point. Why? because they stopped doing their works, as in helping others and started living it up again in sin. They gave in to the temptation of the world, after they had once given up their life of living in sin, yet you are trying to tell me works aren't necessary for salvation when the only way to get right with God again is for them to get back to acting right/doing their works?

How do you think they would get right with God again after going back to the world?
 
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Kenny'sID

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dead as used in James means non existent. He is saying if no works are produced then faith doesn't exist in that person. That if someone claims to have faith yet there is no evidence of a life that is yielded to Christ the claim of faith is false. And I am talking about saving faith as is James. The works are not a part of your salvation, they are a product of a life and heart that have been changed by your faith that you need a savior and Jesus is your Savior. The only Savior.

It is possible for people to do all kinds of good works and be kind and upstanding citizens without any saving faith in Jesus. But that will not get them to Heaven. The only way is Jesus.
Jesus often compared be!rivers and unbelievers using agricultural metaphors. Vine/branches, the parable of the soils, the fig tree; as a way of showing that ABIDING in Him, belonging to Him, produces fruit, or a crop. The crop doesn't come first. It comes from a source. The vine, the soil, the root. Anything that isn't producing fruit is not in Him. If they were they Would be producing fruit. Works. And we must be careful to not get legalistic or narrow about what works are. It involves all that the Bible teaches about how we are to live as His children. So it is not to be measured by only what we can see on the outside. Good activities. Yes we are to be generous and help the poor but also included in works are our behaviors and attitudes. All our ways are to be submitted to His ways. We will not get it perfectly and certainly not all the time while we are here but we keep growing and learning. Our hearts remain loyal to Him.
So where there is faith there WILL be works. That is what it means in James by "I will show you my faith by my works." The works won't save us. They are the FRUIT of the Spirit.

Two Questions:

In the following scripture where Jesus flat out says if we DO good we will live and if you Do evil you will be condemned. 1) And you, in all seriousness, after reading that, are going to tell me we need to not DO anything for our salvation? Look at the term "DO" there, you do realize that is an action word, correct? Meaning we must take a certain action in order to ge to heaven, then we are told what that action is.

2) Do you believe Christ is accurate in that we must "do" good in order to get to heaven? And remember Christ mentioned no other mumbo jumbo, he was clear and to the point, and said nothing like "BTW, you might think you are saved but you really may not be or ever were if you don't/didn't do your works" in order to confuse the issue and have the people saying, "Good grief Jesus, what the heck are you talking about, never heard anything like that in the bible. Very confusing.". But instead he simply said:

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
 
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reformed05

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Two Questions:

In the following scripture where Jesus flat out says if we DO good we will live and if you Do evil you will be condemned. 1) And you, in all seriousness, after reading that, are going to tell me we need to not DO anything for our salvation? Look at the term "DO" there, you do realize that is an action word, correct? Meaning we must take a certain action in order to ge to heaven, then we are told what that action is.

2) Do you believe Christ is accurate in that we must "do" good in order to get to heaven? And remember Christ mentioned no other mumbo jumbo, he was clear and to the point, and said nothing like "BTW, you might think you are saved but you really may not be or ever were if you don't/didn't do your works" in order to confuse the issue and have the people saying, "Good grief Jesus, what the heck are you talking about, never heard anything like that in the bible. Very confusing.". But instead he simply said:

John 5:28-29 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

even in these scriptures the meaning I have you is the same. Good works accompany our salvation. They are the FRUIT of our salvation. But the works themselves do not save us. It is our faith that saved us. I don't know why you insist on not understanding what I am saying. It is possible for you to not agree with me but still understand what I am saying.
You obviously believe in a faith plus works is the way to be saved. That works contribute to our salvation. That is fine. In my opinion, if that is the case, then when Jesus said that His yoke as easy nd His burden light He wasn't telling the truth. The impossible burden of works, which is what He was addressing with the Pharisees, still hangs about our necks. Prior to Jesus's death and resurrection, the only way of salvation was thought to be a perfect a adherence to the law, which is impossible because of our sin nature.
I don't expect you to agree with me. You have your beliefs, I have mine. But don't keep asking me to answer the same question over and over again. Especially if you are not going to actually hear my answer.
 
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I imagine there are some bad dancers in this forum.
 
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John 1:9 teaches that Christ brought sufficient light into the world to graciously illuminate every person. The illumination does not guarantee the salvation of anyone, but it makes the choice of salvation possible.
In John 16:8-11 we see that the ongoing ministry of the Spirit is to convict (elencho) the entire fallen world of mankind of their sin of unbelief. The Spirit's motive for this work is to steer the guilty party toward redemption. Elencho means: "to show someone his sin and to summon him to repentance"
Romans 2:4 teaches that God continues to lead (present tense) sinners to repentance.

Titus 2:11 says that God's grace has appeared to all men, but of course we cannot conclude that all men will be saved. Yet that grace cannot be explained as simply "common grace." The purpose of that grace was to bring salvation. While it is God's will that all men be saved (1 Tim 2:4), the grace which appears to all is resistible.
Apart from God drawing a person they will NEVER seek after Him.

Romans 3:11- There is NONE who seeks God no not one.

1 Cor 2:14- But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

hope this helps !!!
 
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rnmomof7

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No I completely agree that we inherited their sinful nature but I disagree that we are unable to find favor with God. Genesis 6:8 Noah found favor with God. There are many other passages in the scriptures where men find favor with God.

The word "favor" here is translated grace... it is the first time the word grace appears in scripture. ...

Noah was granted unearned grace ..
 
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Kenny'sID

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. I don't know why you insist on not understanding what I am saying.

I understand perfectly what you re saying, and did so before you even said it because I've seen it before, it's a favorite of certain OSAS defenders.

It is possible for you to not agree with me but still understand what I am saying.

I'd a thought it would be clear I disagreed.

The impossible burden of works,

Why are works impossible?...now you are simply not being truthful. There are people that do works all the time, why would you say that?

In my opinion, if that is the case, then when Jesus said that His yoke as easy nd His burden light He wasn't telling the truth.

Take a second look at that, it means nothing like what you say. A light burden indicates there is a burden, not a lack of a burden as you would have us believe (we need nothing but faith). And what constitutes a light burden? I would say just about what he asks of us is plenty light, but again, either way, it is a burden so of course he didn't lie.

Prior to Jesus's death and resurrection, the only way of salvation was thought to be a perfect a adherence to the law, which is impossible because of our sin nature.

That also is simply not true, I'll show you how you twisted it. First, we were never in the history of man required to be perfect/sinless, and you should know that, yet you use that still to make your point. Meaning, you make your point with deceptive means...not good.

There was always forgiveness for most sins with a sacrifice, and yet the worst of sins had a death penalty. That goes right along with a "light burden"...compared to then, today the burden is light. It's called doing our best and if we fail, then repent, all can easily be made right again, and just for the asking. Sure, it's a burden, the light burden Christ mentioned, and far from impossible as you say it is.

In some of the scripture I mentioned, Christ said we must to good in order to get to heaven, but you are saying that is impossible. If Christ requires it of us, it is not impossible. Not sure who you've been listening to, but I'd suggest you look a little closer at what they are saying and try to catch those things that are not truthful, the very things they use to make the points you are agreeing with. Don't believe conclusions drawn from false pretenses.

Anyway, you completely skipped the first of two posts I made yo you, and in the second post, you say you answered my questions, when those
"answers" didn't even pertain to my questions.

It's completely up to you to answer the questions or not, and the lack of answers generally tell me all I need to know. Thanks anyway.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Noah was granted unearned grace ..

I kind of got the idea Noah acted right compared to the heathen Gpd drowned, so, of course he found favor with God. You seem to be saying Noah was like the heathen, no good works, no nothing, but God found favor with him over the others.

Something just isn't right about your post there.
 
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renniks

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Apart from God drawing a person they will NEVER seek after Him.

Romans 3:11- There is NONE who seeks God no not one.

1 Cor 2:14- But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

hope this helps !!!
I don't think you read what I posted. You just assume God only works on a select few hearts.
 
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reformed05

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I understand perfectly what you re saying, and did so before you even said it because I've seen it before, it's a favorite of certain OSAS defenders.



I'd a thought it would be clear I disagreed.



Why are works impossible?...now you are simply not being truthful. There are people that do works all the time, why would you say that?



Take a second look at that, it means nothing like what you say. A light burden indicates there is a burden, not a lack of a burden as you would have us believe (we need nothing but faith). And what constitutes a light burden? I would say just about what he asks of us is plenty light, but again, either way, it is a burden so of course he didn't lie.



That also is simply not true, I'll show you how you twisted it. First, we were never in the history of man required to be perfect/sinless, and you should know that, yet you use that still to make your point. Meaning, you make your point with deceptive means...not good.

There was always forgiveness for most sins with a sacrifice, and yet the worst of sins had a death penalty. That goes right along with a "light burden"...compared to then, today the burden is light. It's called doing our best and if we fail, then repent, all can easily be made right again, and just for the asking. Sure, it's a burden, the light burden Christ mentioned, and far from impossible as you say it is.

In some of the scripture I mentioned, Christ said we must to good in order to get to heaven, but you are saying that is impossible. If Christ requires it of us, it is not impossible. Not sure who you've been listening to, but I'd suggest you look a little closer at what they are saying and try to catch those things that are not truthful, the very things they use to make the points you are agreeing with. Don't believe conclusions drawn from false pretenses.

Anyway, you completely skipped the first of two posts I made yo you, and in the second post, you say you answered my questions, when those
"answers" didn't even pertain to my questions.

It's completely up to you to answer the questions or not, and the lack of answers generally tell me all I need to know. Thanks anyway.

Just two things. I know that you disagree with me. That is why the debate. You asked a question I gave You my answer. In my last post I merely ask it was possible to understand what I said, even though you disagree? I ask this because you keep responding by accusing me of saying things I did not say, or utterly ignoring my answer to your question. Instead you just repeated again everything you have said before.
The other thing is questions for you.
How many works does it take to earn salvation, and what do they need to be? And who determines these works? And can you have enough bad works that will cancel the good? And if so, how many more good works or how good a work, would it take to cancel the bad work? Will two good cancel one bad?
Because it seems like you are saying that the perfect, holy work that Jesus did for us, is not enough. It takes His work and ours for salvation.
Again. We should do good works because God tells us to. And if we are truly saved we will do good works but that is a FRUIT of salvation. It is not the means by which we are saved.
I don't know what you mean by I didn't answer your questions and the answer I gave didn't pertain to the question. Maybe there were questions I didn't see. I answered everything in your question about the passage in James which is the only one I remember. I answered plainly and clearly. The fact that you didn't get the answer you wanted or liked doesn't mean I didn't answer it. But I have found that to be consistent in this site where there are disagreements on theology. People either don't actually pay attention to what I say because all they can think about is what they are going to say in rebuttal, or they can't understand it, or they don't know how to come against the logic so they just say I didn't answer the question. Or they tell me I said something I did not say. Anything to keep the argument going. So I probably won't answer any more questions as I'm worn out having to repeat myself so often. However I would appreciate it if you would answer the ones I asked in this post.
and that is the other thing I hear over and over. It goes something like this.
Someone asks me a question about Reformed Theology.
I answer.
They say I didn't answer and that tells them everything they need to know.
Implying in a very passive aggressive way, but I guess feeling on the higher ground, that they are right and I can't v validate my own beliefs.get
What would be nice would be if we could have an actual sensible adult discussion about our differences instead of the whole point being to dismantle everything I say.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You asked a question I gave You my answer.

I already told you, if you did answer my questions the answer had nothing toi do with my question. You chose to skirt the clear and simple questions, but that's fine, I also already told you you don't have to answer if you choose not to....end of story

In my last post I merely ask it was possible to understand what I said, even though you disagree?

I also already told you, I did understand, and told you I understood before you even brought it up because your stance was a favorite of OSAS. Why do you keep bringing up things I have already answered to, and claiming I ignored them?

I ask this because you keep responding by accusing me of saying things I did not say, or utterly ignoring my answer to your question.

What did I accuse you of saying that you did not say? For the last time, I didn't ignore what you called an answer, I told you I disagreed with it, that is not ignoring it, I considered the comment and told you I disagree, what else do you want from me?

Instead you just repeated again everything you have said before.

?

Nothing you said here thus far was anything but repeats, and you're accusing me of repeating. I say things I said before because you keep repeating thing you said before, and I'm only commenting on what uyou are saying

The other thing is questions for you.
How many works does it take to earn salvation, and what do they need to be? And who determines these works? And can you have enough bad works that will cancel the good? And if so, how many more good works or how good a work, would it take to cancel the bad work? Will two good cancel one bad?

I'll be happy to answer all questions, but as I tell everyone else here who skirts the questions, both sides need to answer each other otherwise it's an unfair/useless debate.

What i will do is answer one as en example of actually answering a question, and not skipping it and claiming I answered.

How many works does it take to earn salvation,


We can never do too much good, or avoid doing too much evil, so as many as we can/will. If you know of a place in the bible where God specified a number then please show us, and that would be how many. When your parents told you to be good, did they specify an exact number of things you had to do in order to obtain that goal? Of course they didn't. Curious though, what is your point, why do you need a number when it's clear because a number wasn't specified, there is no particular number? Or will you not answer that either?

I ask because, that is another common, learned from men, not God, OSAS question, and I'd like to know what you all expect when you ask it?

So, you see how I answered directly, and in detail, on the exact question you posed, as well as commenting on the question itself? Now I could have just said something like, "Faith without works is dead" and then go on about that, but that would have nothing to do with the actual question, however that is much like you handled the question, then claimed you answered it. Maybe you can show me the exact sentence, few sentences, or whatever was that answer to my question. All you actually did is post a fairly long post and said the answer in there, no specifics. I'll be happy to look those specifics over, but I still may come to the same conclusion. But I'll at least know what you considered an answer.

That's just in case you honestly have no idea why yours wasn't an answer to the question, but as I said, you still don't have to answer it unless you now want to try again now that you understand what I mean.
 
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reformed05

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I already told you, if you did answer my questions the answer had nothing toi do with my question. You chose to skirt the clear and simple questions, but that's fine, I also already told you you don't have to answer if you choose not to....end of story



I also already told you, I did understand, and told you I understood before you even brought it up because your stance was a favorite of OSAS. Why do you keep bringing up things I have already answered to, and claiming I ignored them?



What did I accuse you of saying that you did not say? For the last time, I didn't ignore what you called an answer, I told you I disagreed with it, that is not ignoring it, I considered the comment and told you I disagree, what else do you want from me?



?

Nothing you said here thus far was anything but repeats, and you're accusing me of repeating. I say things I said before because you keep repeating thing you said before, and I'm only commenting on what uyou are saying



I'll be happy to answer all questions, but as I tell everyone else here who skirts the questions, both sides need to answer each other otherwise it's an unfair/useless debate.

What i will do is answer one as en example of actually answering a question, and not skipping it and claiming I answered.

How many works does it take to earn salvation,


We can never do too much good, or avoid doing too much evil, so as many as we can/will. If you know of a place in the bible where God specified a number then please show us, and that would be how many. When your parents told you to be good, did they specify an exact number of things you had to do in order to obtain that goal? Of course they didn't. Curious though, what is your point, why do you need a number when it's clear because a number wasn't specified, there is no particular number? Or will you not answer that either?

I ask because, that is another common, learned from men, not God, OSAS question, and I'd like to know what you all expect when you ask it?

So, you see how I answered directly, and in detail, on the exact question you posed, as well as commenting on the question itself? Now I could have just said something like, "Faith without works is dead" and then go on about that, but that would have nothing to do with the actual question, however that is much like you handled the question, then claimed you answered it. Maybe you can show me the exact sentence, few sentences, or whatever was that answer to my question. All you actually did is post a fairly long post and said the answer in there, no specifics. I'll be happy to look those specifics over, but I still may come to the same conclusion. But I'll at least know what you considered an answer.

That's just in case you honestly have no idea why yours wasn't an answer to the question, but as I said, you still don't have to answer it unless you now want to try again now that you understand what I mean.
I already told you, if you did answer my questions the answer had nothing toi do with my question. You chose to skirt the clear and simple questions, but that's fine, I also already told you you don't have to answer if you choose not to....end of story



I also already told you, I did understand, and told you I understood before you even brought it up because your stance was a favorite of OSAS. Why do you keep bringing up things I have already answered to, and claiming I ignored them?



What did I accuse you of saying that you did not say? For the last time, I didn't ignore what you called an answer, I told you I disagreed with it, that is not ignoring it, I considered the comment and told you I disagree, what else do you want from me?



?

Nothing you said here thus far was anything but repeats, and you're accusing me of repeating. I say things I said before because you keep repeating thing you said before, and I'm only commenting on what uyou are saying



I'll be happy to answer all questions, but as I tell everyone else here who skirts the questions, both sides need to answer each other otherwise it's an unfair/useless debate.

What i will do is answer one as en example of actually answering a question, and not skipping it and claiming I answered.

How many works does it take to earn salvation,


We can never do too much good, or avoid doing too much evil, so as many as we can/will. If you know of a place in the bible where God specified a number then please show us, and that would be how many. When your parents told you to be good, did they specify an exact number of things you had to do in order to obtain that goal? Of course they didn't. Curious though, what is your point, why do you need a number when it's clear because a number wasn't specified, there is no particular number? Or will you not answer that either?

I ask because, that is another common, learned from men, not God, OSAS question, and I'd like to know what you all expect when you ask it?

So, you see how I answered directly, and in detail, on the exact question you posed, as well as commenting on the question itself? Now I could have just said something like, "Faith without works is dead" and then go on about that, but that would have nothing to do with the actual question, however that is much like you handled the question, then claimed you answered it. Maybe you can show me the exact sentence, few sentences, or whatever was that answer to my question. All you actually did is post a fairly long post and said the answer in there, no specifics. I'll be happy to look those specifics over, but I still may come to the same conclusion. But I'll at least know what you considered an answer.

That's just in case you honestly have no idea why yours wasn't an answer to the question, but as I said, you still don't have to answer it unless you now want to try again now that you understand what I mean.
Ok. Your right.
 
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Radagast

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If a man creates a robot with free will to do either good and evil, and it chooses evil

Then he destroys those evil robots. Seems fair. He made them.

It would be like a coast guard choosing to only a rescue a few individuals within a group who are lost at sea when he could have easily rescued the whole group

The coast guard has certain responsibilities place on them. People are entitled to have the Coast Guard make efforts to save them.

Do you feel that you are entitled to be saved by God?
 
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