Is Calvinism Just?

[-57]

Ok I’m sorry if I didn’t convey the message in a more understandable means. According to Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity is man capable of repentance? According to Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace is man capable of influencing God’s decision on who He will elect? Can man do anything to convince God to elect him so that he is capable of repentance?

Man is dead in their sins and trespasses. Totally depraved. You should be thanking God that He choose you and regenerated you. Instead you seem to be thanking yourself for getting your self saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yet you are dening that God knows who will repent and that God can on that basis plan for the salvation of those who will repent.
It ends up the same.

AMEN BROTHER!! That is not Calvin’s theology. Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace teaches that God’s decision on who He will elect is not based on anything that we have done or will do. Please read carefully the implications of unconditional grace.

Unconditional grace
In Calvinist and some other churches (Waldensians, Katharoi, Anabaptists, Particular Baptists, etc.) this election has been called "unconditional" because his choice to save the elect does not depend on anything inherent in any person chosen, on any act that a person performs or on any belief that a person exercises. Indeed, according to the doctrine of total depravity (the first of the five points of Calvinism), the influence of sin has so inhibited the individual's volition that no one is willing or able to come to or follow God apart from God first regenerating the person's soul to give them the ability to love him and take part in the salvation process. Hence, God’s choice in election is and can only be based solely on God's own independent and sovereign will and [not] upon the foreseen actions of man.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Man is dead in their sins and trespasses. Totally depraved. You should be thanking God that He choose you and regenerated you. Instead you seem to be thanking yourself for getting your self saved.

I completely agree that God has elected everyone whom He has foreseen will repent and abide in Christ to the end.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Man is dead in their sins and trespasses. Totally depraved. You should be thanking God that He choose you and regenerated you. Instead you seem to be thanking yourself for getting your self saved.

Now why would you say that I “seem to be thanking myself for my regeneration”? Don’t resort to despicable tactics of deception. That kind of behavior is unbefitting of you and I who are in Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Man is dead in their sins and trespasses. Totally depraved. You should be thanking God that He choose you and regenerated you. Instead you seem to be thanking yourself for getting your self saved.

Why do you FEAR answering these questions? You refuse to address the FACT that Calvin’s doctrines teach that the unelected are completely incapable of meeting God’s expectations which makes God’s judgement on them UNJUST. They cannot be held accountable if they are INCAPABLE OF REPENTANCE. It is obvious that you understand exactly what I’m saying and you persistently refuse to admit that Calvin’s theology is incorrect because you are more concerned with your own personal pride rather than admitting that you made a mistake. What is more important to you, your pride or teaching the truth of God’s Word?

 

[renniks]

Yet Paul makes it crystal clear that there is NONE who seeks God no not one in Romans 3. below are 15 biblical reasons why man cannot seek God on his own.

1)man has a heart that is deceitful (Jer. 17:9)
2)man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
3)man loves darkness (John 3:19),
4)man does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
5)man is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
6)man is a sinner (Rom 5:12)
7)man is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
8)man by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
9)man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
10)man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
11)man is sinful in the womb (Psalm 51:5)
12)man is conceived in sin(Psalm 51:5)
13)man cannot do good(Romans 3:10)
14) man hates God (Rom 8:7)
15)man loves sin (1 John 3:19)


hope this helps !!!

John 1:9 teaches that Christ brought sufficient light into the world to graciously illuminate every person. The illumination does not guarantee the salvation of anyone, but it makes the choice of salvation possible.
In John 16:8-11 we see that the ongoing ministry of the Spirit is to convict (elencho) the entire fallen world of mankind of their sin of unbelief. The Spirit's motive for this work is to steer the guilty party toward redemption. Elencho means: "to show someone his sin and to summon him to repentance"
Romans 2:4 teaches that God continues to lead (present tense) sinners to repentance.

Titus 2:11 says that God's grace has appeared to all men, but of course we cannot conclude that all men will be saved. Yet that grace cannot be explained as simply "common grace." The purpose of that grace was to bring salvation. While it is God's will that all men be saved (1 Tim 2:4), the grace which appears to all is resistible.

 

[rnmomof7]

What part of the scripture doesn't say what it says?
This wasn't James, it was Jesus himself. Belief itself is a work, and it's required.

John 6:28
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”


Read it again..it says faith is a work OF GOD

 

[Albion]

John 6:28
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”


Read it again..it says faith is a work OF GOD

So Faith is all we need, according to Jesus. That's the same as we have been saying here.

 

[Al Touthentop]

John 6:28
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”


Read it again..it says faith is a work OF GOD

What do you think "of God" means? It does not mean that it is supplied by God. The grammar there would not support such a reading.

 

[Al Touthentop]

So Faith is all we need, according to Jesus. That's the same as we have been saying here.

It is the "all" we need, only if you ignore what else he said and you limit faith to thoughts you think in your mind.

 

[FineLinen]

John 6:28
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”


Read it again..it says faith is a work OF GOD

“Well, what do we do then to get in on God’s works?”

Jesus said, “Throw your lot in with the One that God has sent. That kind of a commitment gets you in on God’s works.” -The Message-

God's works = Living by the faith of the Son of God.

 

[Albion]

It is the "all" we need, only if you ignore what else he said and you limit faith to thoughts you think in your mind.

No. Don't forget the topic here. The context. It is whether salvation is a function of Faith and also of performing good deeds OR if it rather is a function of Faith (in Christ) alone.

Faith is "all we need" when it comes to that which saves us.

Works don't save or contribute to saving us. I agree that there is more that can be said about Faith, and also about Works; but when the issue is what it is on this thread...yes, Faith is what we need.

 

[Al Touthentop]

“Well, what do we do then to get in on God’s works?”

Jesus said, “Throw your lot in with the One that God has sent. That kind of a commitment gets you in on God’s works.” -The Message-

God's works = Living by the faith of the Son of God.

They asked what THEY must do, and Jesus answered their question. He didn't answer it by telling them "nothing, God will do it." The Message is a very poor translation of the Greek grammar.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Works don't save or contribute to saving us. I agree that there is more that can be said about Faith, and also about Works; but when the issue is what it is on this thread...yes, Faith is what we need.

Faith is a work itself as Jesus answers. You have to ignore what they asked and then you have to believe that Jesus' answer was non responsive in order to interpret this otherwise.

 

[Albion]

They asked what THEY must do, and Jesus answered their question. He didn't answer it by telling them "nothing, God will do it."

No, and I don't know why he would have said something like that.

Faith is a work itself as Jesus answers.

You've obviously misunderstood Jesus' meaning here. He was asked about works, so he replied in kind but changed the meaning of "works" in the process. That is like when he replied to Nicodemus when asked about being born again. He didn't say "Oh, no. A man cannot return to the womb."

He used Nicodemus' own words and recast the meaning, saying that he must--that's right--be "born again" (but) of water and the Spirit. You would say, I am guessing, that Jesus confirmed Nicodemus idea by repeating the words, even though he was slyly "turning a phrase" as we say today.

 

[Al Touthentop]

You've obviously misunderstood Jesus' meaning here. He was asked about works, so he replied in kind but changed the meaning of "works" in the process.

No, he defined it just as he stated in his answer.

"The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

This is a definition, not a change in anything.

 

[-57]

I completely agree that God has elected everyone whom He has foreseen will repent and abide in Christ to the end.

As I said, you seem to be thanking your self.

 

[-57]

Why do you FEAR answering these questions? You refuse to address the FACT that Calvin’s doctrines teach that the unelected are completely incapable of meeting God’s expectations which makes God’s judgement on them UNJUST. They cannot be held accountable if they are INCAPABLE OF REPENTANCE. It is obvious that you understand exactly what I’m saying and you persistently refuse to admit that Calvin’s theology is incorrect because you are more concerned with your own personal pride rather than admitting that you made a mistake. What is more important to you, your pride or teaching the truth of God’s Word?

Those dead in their sin and trespasses can't repent. Your theology only makes man sick in their sin and trespasses.
You seem to be the one loathing in pride suggesting your fall with Adam wasn't really all that far.

Keep in mind, the bible tells us you can't come to Jesus unless God grants it....that my friend is an example of total depravity.....or....did you come to Jesus with out God granting you the ability?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Those dead in their sin and trespasses can't repent. Your theology only makes man sick in their sin and trespasses.
You seem to be the one loathing in pride suggesting your fall with Adam wasn't really all that far.

Again resorting to twisting my words will only succeed in discrediting yourself.

 

[-57]

Again resorting to twisting my words will only succeed in discrediting yourself.

Where did I twist them?