Is Calvinism Just?

[-57]

Everyone has sinned let’s just make this point very clear. Our condemnation is not the result of sin but because of unwillingness to repent.

Which is also sin.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Which is why God sent us redemption if we will seek it. It's why God sends preveniant grace in our lives to open our eyes enough to allow us to seek him. But it's not irresistible.

Yet Paul makes it crystal clear that there is NONE who seeks God no not one in Romans 3. below are 15 biblical reasons why man cannot seek God on his own.

1)man has a heart that is deceitful (Jer. 17:9)
2)man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
3)man loves darkness (John 3:19),
4)man does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
5)man is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
6)man is a sinner (Rom 5:12)
7)man is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
8)man by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
9)man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
10)man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
11)man is sinful in the womb (Psalm 51:5)
12)man is conceived in sin(Psalm 51:5)
13)man cannot do good(Romans 3:10)
14) man hates God (Rom 8:7)
15)man loves sin (1 John 3:19)


hope this helps !!!

 

[bling]

The wages of sin is death.

Wow, that is all you can come back with from my lengthy post?

You quote comes from Ro. 6: 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

To understand what “death” Paul is talking about you have to look at the phrase in context and since Paul did not put it in chapters the beginning of Ro. 7 is part of the context: Ro.7:1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

So, what “death” is Paul talking about: physical death, spiritual death or the second death?

We all physically die unless the Lord comes first and all mature adults sin causing us to experience Spiritual death, but the second death is only experienced after the judgement where there is no recovery.

Did you experience spiritual death when you first sinned?

 

[Tolworth John]

What she means is that according to Calvin’s theology God’s judgment on the unelected is unjust. Of course we know that God is just brother. That’s why we are saying that Calvin’s interpretations cannot be true because his theology makes God out to be unjust in His judgement of the unelected who were never made to be capable of meeting God’s expectations.

It does not matter what name one puts to it. Those who are not Christian when God ends there life will end up as they have lived, without God.I.E. in hell.

It is not a case of God being thopught to be unjust but of God being just.

No One deserves anything other than judgement and hell.
It is Gods mercy and grace that there is a process of salvation that is freely offered to us.

 

[reformed05]

No Dave, here's the clincher...
Total depravity must mean total depravity before we can understand the POWER that freed us from total depravity.

If God had to make a person a believer, than the Gospel lacks the power UNTO salvation. So basically Calvinism is a direct attack on the cross of Christ. No choice but to believe, and no choice but to burn is no choice in the cross.

Reformed Theology teaches that Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was for a specific purpose, to pay for the sins of His people, who were His by His choice, and from all nations and peoples, not just Israel, and that Jesus accomplished His purpose, completely. God's elect still had to have their sins paid for, even though they are elect.
free will teaches that man makes the final decision on whether or not he is saved, and that Christ's sacrifice on the cross was to pay for the sins of everyone. However only those who CHOOSE Jesus are actually saved. Therefore His sacrifice is mostly a failure.

Which theology actually diminishes the power of the cross? Which one is actually an attack on the cross as you say?

 

[reformed05]

There is no faith without works so no, it clearly takes both.

The scripture on the Sheep and Goats might also interest you. I won't question you on it because I already know how that will go, but I feel I should at least recommend it as good reading for anyone who might be interested in the truth.

Genuine saving faith PRODUCES works

 

[Albion]

Right here in Romans 2.

I think it's been explained before that this passage does not say what you want it to say.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Which is also sin.

You didn’t even read what I wrote did you?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As in "God Says What God Means" ? Sometime God Reveals This To Men ?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think it's been explained before that this passage does not say what you want it to say.

Well you see how I actually provided an explanation of what it says. So if your going to make the claim that my interpretation is incorrect then I challenge you to give your interpretation of what Paul is saying in these verses rather than just simply replying nuh uh and giving no explanation of where I errored in my interpretation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It does not matter what name one puts to it. Those who are not Christian when God ends there life will end up as they have lived, without God.I.E. in hell.

It is not a case of God being thopught to be unjust but of God being just.

No One deserves anything other than judgement and hell.
It is Gods mercy and grace that there is a process of salvation that is freely offered to us.

I don’t refute any of that brother what I’m refuting is Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace, that God does not enable the unelected to repent and believe. The unelected cannot be responsible for the stubbornness if they are incapable of repentance and belief.

 

[-57]

You didn’t even read what I wrote did you?

Not repenting is sin.

Of course repenting....can be seen in two ways.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wow, that is all you can come back with from my lengthy post?

You quote comes from Ro. 6: 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

To understand what “death” Paul is talking about you have to look at the phrase in context and since Paul did not put it in chapters the beginning of Ro. 7 is part of the context: Ro.7:1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

So, what “death” is Paul talking about: physical death, spiritual death or the second death?

We all physically die unless the Lord comes first and all mature adults sin causing us to experience Spiritual death, but the second death is only experienced after the judgement where there is no recovery.

Did you experience spiritual death when you first sinned?

Yes that’s what happens when someone can’t actually explain the verses in detail to support their position.

 

[-57]

I don’t refute any of that brother what I’m refuting is Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace, that God does not enable the unelected to repent and believe. The unelected cannot be responsible for the stubbornness if they are incapable of repentance and belief.

All people have sinned and deserve eternal death. (except Jesus).... Everyone. The Word didn't have to come and be born as a human and die for us. Every human deserves the judgement of death.

BUT.....Jesus did come and die. From those that deserved judgement God decided to have mercy and compassion on some of them and regenerated them. Those that were not chosen still got their just judgement.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not repenting is sin.

Of course repenting....can be seen in two ways.

Your answer doesn’t even try to explain the root of the problem. Did you read the post?

 

[-57]

Your answer doesn’t even try to explain the root of the problem. Did you read the post?

Then perhaps you need to re-word your post to make your point more understandable.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All people have sinned and deserve eternal death. (except Jesus).... Everyone. The Word didn't have to come and be born as a human and die for us. Every human deserves the judgement of death.

BUT.....Jesus did come and die. From those that deserved judgement God decided to have mercy and compassion on some of them and regenerated them. Those that were not chosen still got their just judgement.

How is it just judgement if they are incapable of repentance? Read the verse

“But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Now is Paul saying they these people are incapable of repentance or that they are willingly refusing to repent?

 

[Tolworth John]

I don’t refute any of that brother what I’m refuting is Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace, that God does not enable the unelected to repent and believe. The unelected cannot be responsible for the stubbornness if they are incapable of repentance and belief.

Yet you are dening that God knows who will repent and that God can on that basis plan for the salvation of those who will repent.
It ends up the same.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then perhaps you need to re-word your post to make your point more understandable.

Ok I’m sorry if I didn’t convey the message in a more understandable means. According to Calvin’s doctrine of total depravity is man capable of repentance? According to Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace is man capable of influencing God’s decision on who He will elect? Can man do anything to convince God to elect him so that he is capable of repentance?

 

[-57]

How is it just judgement if they are incapable of repentance? Read the verse

“But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Now is Paul saying they these people are incapable of repentance or that they are willingly refusing to repent?

Yes, quite the predicament. You also forget man is born with a fallen nature.

The answer to the last question is...yes. Here's a post I saw earlier in this thread.