Is Calvinism Just?

[Dorothy Mae]

You cannot separate the definition from what it defines.

I do not consider coming to know someone a definition.

 

[-57]

No, we cannot earn salvation but we can lose it by not being obedient to God.

Then you've already losy yours.

 

[-57]

What scripture exactly?

post 2

 

[-57]

Arminians don't believe that they save themselves in any way shape or form.

False, they believe they make the right choice.

 

[MDC]

Arminians don't believe that they save themselves in any way shape or form.

Of course they do. The OP is your example

 

[renniks]

False, they believe they make the right choice.

That choice doesn't save them. God does all the work of salvation.

 

[renniks]

Of course they do. The OP is your example

You don't understand arminian theology. God does all the work of salvation. He merely has a requirement of belief.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not to be an ass, here, but there is no such thing as chance. Nevertheless, your reasoning is human, not Scriptural. God doesn't claim to be fair, but just. Fairness and mercy are not at all the same thing.

He is perfectly just to do whatever he chooses with his creation, making humans responsible for their own sinfulness, inherited from Adam even, planned by God to come to pass. But he is merciful to some, not putting their sins aside unpaid for, but by substitution of his Son in their place.

A certain farmer realized that he didn't hire enough men to clear his field before the day was out, so he went and hired some more, agreeing to pay them for the part-day the same amount as those he had hired for the full day. Later that day he again went and hired men under the same agreement. So why should those who hired on for the full day complain. They received what they had agreed on. --- So it is with the condemned. What those upon whom God shows mercy receive is no business of those whom God condemns. In fact, if it IS their business, then all the more condemnation on them for rejecting his gospel of salvation, and instead demanding more than they deserve.

Just and fair are the same thing.

Just-based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair

Fair-marked by impartiality and honesty: free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Could you love a God who was more evil than Satan?

What is the hope in your heart that you seem to think that by trapping us into accepting the definition of God by calvin and admiting we would hate such a being, if it were true? Why are you turning a theological discussion where you need to defend the hope that is within you into a dwelving into who we love? Please stay on the discussion and stop asking us about our hate or love of others.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Of course they do. The OP is your example

Oh good your back!! Can you answer my question now? So then for those who are not elected God’s expectations are impossible to meet?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I never said I wasn't concerned. I said that I'll forever be learning and take joy in that. And I said we have our limits. We only have been told in scripture on the existence of Predestination. We can imply in less explicit ways as well. But that's a far cry from thinking I know the "mechanics" enough to write a "systematic" view on the nature of free will and God's omniscience. This is vanity. It has nothing to do with disrespecting God. But simply knowing my place and that he hasn't revealed everything about this for now. There's a difference between acknowledging something, and saying you know the details of something.

Scripture does not teach predestination as calvin taught it and you believe it. YOu will not find a verse that says you are predestined for heaven no matter what you do. So you are wrong on that point.

YOu do not seem to see that you make definitive statments as you turn around and say you don't. YOu actually said you just need to trust Jesus. That is good and well for new believers. Trusting him for the future is for everyone on all levels who struggle with that, of course. BUt there is a lot more than merely trusting him cause he said to do so. There is knowing Him. There is arriving at knowing him. But it is good you are willing to learn and take joy in that. You should read the scriptures the calvinists tell you are talking of your being predestined for heaven and see if they say you are predestined for heaven. This is a good point to learn.

 

[MDC]

You don't understand arminian theology. God does all the work of salvation. He merely has a requirement of belief.

If God does all the work then faith itself is a gift from God

 

[BNR32FAN]

You keep saying this, but continue to refuse to believe what the Scriptures teach on election. Your statements show you don't believe God elects according to His will and purpose. Then how does God elect?

No actually I just understand from 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:9 that it is God’s will/desire that all men come to repentance and that none should perish and that God has made this possible to all who will accept His offer of grace.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If the evil was a result of his righteous judgement.

That is a contradiction in terms. Evil cannot proceed from righteous judgment. THe judgment then becomes evil.

 

[Dave L]

That is a contradiction in terms. Evil cannot proceed from righteous judgment. THe judgment then becomes evil.

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7 (KJV 1900)

 

[BNR32FAN]

Is there anyone who can be elect without God first electing?

Of course not. Your dodging the question here because you know where it leads. Why do you fear answering my questions? Is it because you know that your answer will only confirm my position?

 

[BNR32FAN]

We ALWAYS choose, one way or the other. Why do you insist Calvin teaches we can't choose either way?

Because according to Calvin’s doctrine of unconditional grace we can do nothing to influence God’s decision regarding election. So in essence God’s judgement would be the result of failing to meet His impossible expectations thereby making His judgement unjust.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Does the reprobate DESIRE to repent?

Is the reprobate even capable of desiring to repent?

 

[MDC]

Oh good your back!! Can you answer my question now? So then for those who are not elected God’s expectations are impossible to meet?

Your question insinuates salvation through meritorious works. What sinner is perfectly righteous or can become perfectly righteous? Apart from Gods merciful grace in Christ even the elect of God are without hope and will die in their sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree that God doesn't have to elect anyone and He still would be righteous. But if God chooses to not elect someone because of a decision apart from them, then could it be said He is merciful (and just)?

Would you say that the government could justly burn everyone to death who weren’t born On January 1 1971?