Is Calvinism Just?

[MDC]

To the unelected?

Nope. That’s obvious from scripture

 

[MDC]

Agree.

It's starting to look like Calvinism is just the same old OSAS topped with a different, artificially sweetened flavor. Why people choose to follow these crackpots (men) is beyond me, when it's just another twisted version of the Gospel with intent to get everyone to believe we are destined for heaven no matter what we do.

These several false doctrines always boil down to the same exact thing (Huge clue, folks. technically we can live it up here in spite of what the bible states, and still go to heaven. An easier way for those who don't love God/Christ enough to bother taking them seriously to the point of being obedient to them. So instead they constantly try to reinforce their belief in how they can get to heaven the easy way by trying to get others to buy it/agree with them.

When will people put two and two together, and realize what they are doing and why they are doing it, especially when they are completely aware of Satan's tricks, and that this is exactly like something he would do?

WAKE UP PEOPLE, CAN'T YOU SEE THIS IS JUST WHAT SATAN WANTS YOU BELIEVE! YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!

What you described are some of your fellow arminian brethren who hold to OSAS and teach antinomianism. That’s not what reformed theology teaches. You are being very dishonest

 

[Kenny'sID]

Then there’s also the polar opposite position where atheists say I’m not elected by God so I’m not even going to try to repent and believe. I heard that one just yesterday.

When a doctrine is created out of pure selfishness, how can we expect those who buy into it to care what happens to others as a result of their teaching?

 

[MDC]

Then there’s also the polar opposite position where atheists say I’m not elected by God so I’m not even going to try to repent and believe. I heard that one just yesterday.

Calvinism and arminianism teach polar opposites. The former the truth the latter a counterfeit

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't believe anything that is even partly good is ever lost.

I’d like to believe that but the scriptures say salvation isn’t just about being good it’s also about accepting Christ. There are plenty of people who are good at least by my standards, most definitely they’re not good by God’s standards if they haven’t accepted Christ because they are still tainted by their sins.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What you described are some of your fellow arminian brethren who hold to OSAS and teach antinomianism. That’s not what reformed theology teaches. You are being very dishonest

Come on, give me more....accusations mean nothing without some backing.

Where do I ere?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Calvinism and arminianism teach polar opposites. The former the truth the latter a counterfeit

Yeah yeah...is it even remotely possible for those who are not elected to become elected to salvation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nope. That’s obvious from scripture

Is there anything a person who has not been elected can do to be elected?

 

[MDC]

Yeah yeah...is it even remotely possible for those who are not elected to become elected to salvation?

Apart from regeneration no one would repent and lay hold upon Christ in faith

 

[BNR32FAN]

Apart from regeneration no one would repent and lay hold upon Christ in faith

So then for those who are not elected God’s expectations are impossible to meet?

 

[redleghunter]

Preaching the gospel means little to nothing because God has already decreed who will have life and who will burn.

Not if God established the way the elect come to faith in Him. Ephesians 1 explains this.

 

[redleghunter]

And if he doesn’t elect someone else who cannot attain his election?? Don’t you see that is unjust?

You are calling God unjust in choosing according to His will and purpose? I ask because that is what you are arguing against.

That's not Calvin, that's Jesus and Paul and Peter and Jude.

 

[redleghunter]

Not according to the Bible. It actually reads like God was testing him. God never says, “Your obedience was inevitable” anywhere.

Actually God called Abraham. Abraham did not call on God. And God specifically called Abraham and not some other guy named Omar. The Scriptures testify that Abraham believed God and that it was counted as righteousness. Long before he was circumcised or even tested with giving up Isaac for a sacrifice. Abraham believed in the Promises of God even though he did not see this Promise completely fulfilled.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Actually God called Abraham. Abraham did not call on God. And God specifically called Abraham and not some other guy named Omar. The Scriptures testify that Abraham believed God and that it was counted as righteousness. Long before he was circumcised or even tested with giving up Isaac for a sacrifice. Abraham believed in the Promises of God even though he did not see this Promise completely fulfilled.

Abraham left his home headed for the promised land at the command of God. His action was evidence of his faith.

 

[redleghunter]

So is God’s judgment and punishment of eternal suffering in the lake of fire a just punishment for failure to meet His impossible expectations?

I thought you already got the answer:

Romans 9: NASB

6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

 

[redleghunter]

Abraham left his home headed for the promised land at the command of God. His action was evidence of his faith.

That is true. But he believed the promise before packing up his tents.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are calling God unjust in choosing according to His will and purpose? I ask because that is what you are arguing against.

That's not Calvin, that's Jesus and Paul and Peter and Jude.

No actually she is saying that according to Calvin’s theology God’s judgement on the unelected is unjust. See both her and I know that Calvin’s theology is incorrect so neither of us are saying that God is unjust because we both know that God made a way for everyone to receive salvation and those who don’t will be judged according to their own choice to rebel against God.

 

[redleghunter]

Of course the scriptures will say that God is just, because they are not Calvinist theology. By the intended interpretation of scripture God is just because He made a way for everyone to be saved. People simply condemn themselves by not accepting His gift of grace.

So you believe some people are given the heart to be saved but some do not. How do you justify this? Why are not all humans of all time given the same equal opportunity of salvation?

 

[Albion]

God impartiality toward sinners is not just. It is gracious.

What a great, succinct, way of putting it! That says what so many people just cannot grasp when it comes to this subject, yet apart from a discussion like this one, most of them would take it for granted as correct.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I thought you already got the answer:

Romans 9: NASB

6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

Ok fine I’ll ask the question you keep dodging again. HOW did God endure with much patience the vessels for wrath? HOW NOT WHY.