Is Calvinism Just?

[redleghunter]

No actually she is saying that according to Calvin’s theology God’s judgement on the unelected is unjust.

God's judgment on all mankind as fallen sinners is just. Why does not God give all mankind an equal shot at salvation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you believe some people are given the heart to be saved but some do not. How do you justify this? Why are not all humans of all time given the same equal opportunity of salvation?

Everyone is given the same opportunity for salvation but many refuse to accept it.

 

[redleghunter]

Repent, believe, and abide in Christ to the end.

How does one who is dead in their sins and trespasses come to repent, believe and abide in Christ?

 

[redleghunter]

Everyone is given the same opportunity for salvation but many refuse to accept it.

I will agree anyone can hear the Gospel and reject it. But why do they reject it? What makes them different from those who do accept the Gospel message?

 

[BNR32FAN]

God's judgment on all mankind as fallen sinners is just. Why does not God give all mankind an equal shot at salvation?

According to Calvin theology man is completely incapable of repentance or doing anything to attain election which means that they were never given the opportunity to even be capable of repentance. For the unelected God’s expectations are COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO MEET therefore His judgement is unjust because His expectations are impossible.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I will agree anyone can hear the Gospel and reject it. But why do they reject it? What makes them different from those who do accept the Gospel message?

God’s grace no doubt. I’m not saying that we can accept the gospel without God’s grace I’m saying that God will bestow His grace to everyone who will accept it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How does one who is dead in their sins and trespasses come to repent, believe and abide in Christ?

Read post 386 please

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have to drive home now. See ya’ll later God bless everyone.

 

[Albion]

Not moving fast.
Of course they don’t say “God is unjust.”

So the earlier statement to the opposite of what you are saying here...was wrong. I agree.

What they teach their god does IS unjust.

So now the Calvinists are unjust but not God? Or have you just backtracked on what we agreed to above?

I you’re one, you need to show us HOW God is not just but acts as calvinists teach.

No I don't. I need (and asked) only that we do not accept the false charge that Calvinism teaches that God is unjust. And I'm not even a Calvinist myself.

On what basis does He does who goes to heaven or hell then?

God decides. We do not know all that God bases his decision on.

God commands us to do justly. He assumes we KNOW what justly doing is.

He certainly does not make that assumption. If we instinctively knew what is right and what is wrong, Moses would not have been given the Ten Commandments and Jesus would not have preached the Sermon on the Mount and instructed the people for three years prior to his crucifixion.

 

[redleghunter]

To the unelected?

The preview to the New Covenant is in Ezekiel 36.

Ezekiel 36: NASB

22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23“I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28“You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29“Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. 30“I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31“Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32“I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!”​

Notice God is saving His people for the sake of His Holy Name. This is Sovereign God.


Also notice the "I will" statements. The "I" is YHWH. Who is doing the saving? The cleansing? Who is removing the heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh? Who is putting His Spirit within a person and causing them to walk in His statutes and ordinances? Who is saving us from all uncleaness?

 

[Albion]

That’s what Calvin’s theology is suggesting.

Like him or not, disagree with him or not, but that is NOT what he was saying. It is what people with a superficial knowledge of Calvin think his theology is suggesting.

 

[redleghunter]

Agree.

It's starting to look like Calvinism is just the same old OSAS topped with a different, artificially sweetened flavor. Why people choose to follow these crackpots (men) is beyond me, when it's just another twisted version of the Gospel with intent to get everyone to believe we are destined for heaven no matter what we do.

These several false doctrines always boil down to the same exact thing (Huge clue, folks. technically we can live it up here in spite of what the bible states, and still go to heaven. An easier way for those who don't love God/Christ enough to bother taking them seriously to the point of being obedient to them. So instead they constantly try to reinforce their belief in how they can get to heaven the easy way by trying to get others to buy it/agree with them.

When will people put two and two together, and realize what they are doing and why they are doing it, especially when they are completely aware of Satan's tricks, and that this is exactly like something he would do?

WAKE UP PEOPLE, CAN'T YOU SEE THIS IS JUST WHAT SATAN WANTS YOU BELIEVE! YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!

Calvinism is 100% Biblical. It is Biblical doctrine taught by Christ and His Apostles. Now think on that. More correctly, Calvinism draws the truth out of the Scriptures (exegesis) and presents a Biblically sound systematic theology.

 

[redleghunter]

Then there’s also the polar opposite position where atheists say I’m not elected by God so I’m not even going to try to repent and believe. I heard that one just yesterday.

I guess atheists can also believe a misconception.

 

[redleghunter]

When a doctrine is created out of pure selfishness, how can we expect those who buy into it to care what happens to others as a result of their teaching?

Arminianism? That is the doctrine that puts man as choosing God. Makes God a beggar to human whim.

 

[redleghunter]

Yeah yeah...is it even remotely possible for those who are not elected to become elected to salvation?

You keep saying this, but continue to refuse to believe what the Scriptures teach on election. Your statements show you don't believe God elects according to His will and purpose. Then how does God elect?

 

[redleghunter]

Is there anything a person who has not been elected can do to be elected?

Is there anyone who can be elect without God first electing?

 

[redleghunter]

Ok fine I’ll ask the question you keep dodging again. HOW did God endure with much patience the vessels for wrath? HOW NOT WHY.

You keep getting the answer. Paul in the following verse tell us:

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

 

[redleghunter]

According to Calvin theology man is completely incapable of repentance or doing anything to attain election which means that they were never given the opportunity to even be capable of repentance.

No if you have been reading what I have written so many time, the above is not what Calvin or any Reformer taught.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Then why did Jesus and the apostles tell anyone to repent or believe? According to Calvin’s doctrines no one can choose either way. When the jailer asked Paul & Silas “what must I do to be saved” they should’ve replied “nothing, don’t worry about it”.

Reformed theology doesn't say we have no choice. It says without God, we always choose corruptly. Your take there is flat wrong. God uses means to accomplish his ends. And we fit those means perfectly, through obedience or through disobedience, just as he planned.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Which still makes God’s judgment unjust because the condemned never had any chance for salvation.

Not to be an ass, here, but there is no such thing as chance. Nevertheless, your reasoning is human, not Scriptural. God doesn't claim to be fair, but just. Fairness and mercy are not at all the same thing.

He is perfectly just to do whatever he chooses with his creation, making humans responsible for their own sinfulness, inherited from Adam even, planned by God to come to pass. But he is merciful to some, not putting their sins aside unpaid for, but by substitution of his Son in their place.

A certain farmer realized that he didn't hire enough men to clear his field before the day was out, so he went and hired some more, agreeing to pay them for the part-day the same amount as those he had hired for the full day. Later that day he again went and hired men under the same agreement. So why should those who hired on for the full day complain. They received what they had agreed on. --- So it is with the condemned. What those upon whom God shows mercy receive is no business of those whom God condemns. In fact, if it IS their business, then all the more condemnation on them for rejecting his gospel of salvation, and instead demanding more than they deserve.