Is "Calvinism" Biblical?

[redleghunter]

We celebrate the Lord's Supper about once a quarter.

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How did your church come to decide on this and where in the NT can I find the Lord's Supper is a quarterly event?

See my point. Your church is at liberty to establish it as so. Where the churches of the WCF were at liberty to establish their own.

And did you notice (I did) that the portion of the WCF on the Law of God is not the same Article as the one you quoted on Sunday worship? One is of the Law of God and one is of Worship and Liturgical.

Did you also notice that nowhere in Article on Worship does it mention the Sinai law? I did.

 

[redleghunter]

Is the 4th commandment a part of your "moral law"?

No but as early as in Acts of the Apostles it says "they met on the first day of the week." That has been a Biblically held tradition since then. The WCF does not have the Sunday Sabbath in the Article on the Law of God.

Please stop trying to mix the two.

 

[redleghunter]

So far some of those here professing to be "Calvinists" are either ignorant of what is written in the Westminster Confession of faith, or willfully deny what is written in the text of the document.
If you are going to promote something, you may want to read what it says.

We know exactly what it says. What we are doing is showing you how you are deceitfully using it to avoid debating the Doctrines of Grace which is how this thread got started.

So unless you have something to debate on the Doctrines of Grace stop wasting our time with stuff we are not arguing against other than in your straw man presentations.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Does God exist as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Yes. Should I be forced to confess the word "Trinity", or be viewed as a heretic? No.

Oneness folks believe as much about God, what distinguishes your believe about God from theirs?

Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, immutable, hypostatic union, inerrancy, canon, none of those are terms used in Scripture. For all your criticism of Covenant Theology, dispensationalism isn't in there either (though the term "Covenant" is), we can go on and on.

 

[BABerean2]

Oneness folks believe as much about God, what distinguishes your believe about God from theirs?

I am not part of the "Oneness" movement.

I believe in the Trinity.
However, I would never compel anyone to confess the word.

I believe what the Bible says.
God exists in three separate forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each one has a distinct role in God's plan.

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[BABerean2]

We know exactly what it says. What we are doing is showing you how you are deceitfully using it to avoid debating the Doctrines of Grace which is how this thread got started.

If the Westminster Confession of Faith says the 10 commandments were given to Adam in the garden before the fall, and it states that we are to keep a Sabbath day, and some of us are attempting to ignore these facts, who here is being deceitful?

Perhaps it would be those who have highjacked the word "Grace" and insist that those who oppose their man-made doctrine are opposed to the blood-bought Grace fulfilled by the Son of God at Calvary.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

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[redleghunter]

I am not part of the "Oneness" movement.

I believe in the Trinity.
However, I would never compel anyone to confess the word.

I believe what the Bible says.
God exists in three separate forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each one has a distinct role in God's plan.

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You mean three Divine Persons not roles right?

And did not know New Covenant churches were Dispensational. Is your church mid Acts or Acts 28?

 

[redleghunter]

If the Westminster Confession of Faith says the 10 commandments were given to Adam in the garden before the fall, and it states that we are to keep a Sabbath day, and some of us are attempting to ignore these facts, who here is being deceitful?

Perhaps it would be those who have highjacked the word "Grace" and insist that those who oppose their man-made doctrine are opposed to the blood-bought Grace fulfilled by the Son of God at Calvary.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

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Well right up there you snuck in stuff not true to promote your straw man.

The WCF says the moral law has always been. How else would God judge mankind? Why would we need salvation if there was not a moral law that was broken. I showed you from Romans 5 we are all under the curse due to the one sin of the one man Adam. In the same passage it says all sinned but not all sinned in the manner Adam did. So if there was not a moral law after the fall and many did not sin in the way Adam did then how did they sin without a moral law? Meaning, other than the original sin which all are cursed, how would God judge other sins?

Same goes today. However, given the teachings of Christ and His apostles we know the moral law continues. Do I need to show you the verses and passages?

And please show me Reformed theology which denies we are in the New Covenant in Christ’s blood.

 

[BABerean2]

And did not know New Covenant churches were Dispensational. Is your church mid Acts or Acts 28?

I am not a Dispensationalist.

Why would you think I am?

Do you think all of those who reject Reformed Covenant Theology are Dispensationalists?

The doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, is another man-made doctrine.

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[BABerean2]

The WCF says the moral law has always been.

If Adam was only given one commandment, your statement above proves the WCF to be in error.


Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

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[redleghunter]

If Adam was only given one commandment, your statement above proves the WCF to be in error.


Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

I believe pages ago I made the point about the fact that God progressively revealed Himself and His Holiness throughout Scriptures.

There is one command in Genesis 1, be fruitful and multiply. In Genesis 2 we have the restriction or command not to eat of the ToK. That was a covenant of obedience. As Genesis unfolds we are exposed to more wickedness and what God considers sin and what hu-mans know to be moral and immoral.

If not, as early as Genesis 4, how would Cain know killing his brother was wrong and why did God punish Cain for the murder if it was not a violation of the moral law?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I believe what the Bible says.
God exists in three separate forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each one has a distinct role in God's plan..

Can you find any passage in Scripture where the term "forms" is used?

 

[redleghunter]

I am not a Dispensationalist.

Why would you think I am?

Do you think all of those who reject Reformed Covenant Theology are Dispensationalists?

The doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, is another man-made doctrine.

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Do you have a basic statement of faith not in You Tube form we can view to see what you actually believe?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I am not a Dispensationalist.

Why would you think I am?

Do you think all of those who reject Reformed Covenant Theology are Dispensationalists?

The doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, is another man-made doctrine.

I don't know, you tell me about your covenant theology...do you not have one or just prefer to avoid a theological label, and why, pinpoint yours in Christian history, surely someone has laid out your view before you, with 2,000+ years of theological history in writings.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War, is another man-made doctrine.

I agree, however it is not the berean way to simply use pejoratives in describing doctrines others prescribe to without providing some kind of explanation as to why that is, I mean we can ping pong back and forth calling each others doctrinal disagreements man-made all day long but it's not beneficial to anyone it does not help anyone, waste of time really. Let's defend truth, surely all truth is God's truth, whether it's by general revelation or special revelation, God knows everything exhaustively as it truly is, without dependence on another for interpretation. We on the other hand, are interpreters, remember that next time you're tempted to tell a Calvinist their doctrines are "man-made".

 

[BABerean2]

We on the other hand, are interpreters, remember that next time you're tempted to tell a Calvinist their doctrines are "man-made".

John Calvin was a man.
If you tell a Calvinist their doctrine is man-made, they will often say it goes back to Augustine.
Augustine was a Catholic monk. He was a man.

We have seen here that the Westminster Confession of Faith is a man-made confession that does not always agree with the Word of God.
It claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam in the garden, and that we are to keep a Sabbath day.
If it is your source of truth, it proves your doctrine is man-made.

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[Apologetic_Warrior]

John Calvin was a man.
If you tell a Calvinist their doctrine is man-made, they will often say it goes back to Augustine.
Augustine was a Catholic monk. He was a man.

We have seen here that the Westminster Confession of Faith is a man-made confession that does not always agree with the Word of God. It claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam in the garden, and that we are to keep a Sabbath day. If it is your source of truth, it proves your doctrine is man-made.

Jesus Christ was a man. The Scriptures were written by men. Copyists or scribes, also men. All translations translated by men. Divisions into verses, chapters, with headers, boldface, and red letters, the work of man. All Creeds and Confessions and statements of faith were written by humans. Every Christian is a human being. All interpretation involves the human mind. If the criteria for true doctrine stems from whether or not man wrote it, then we have no truth. I prefer to think it boils down to true interpretation versus false interpretations, where the Holy Spirit makes the difference and bears witness to the truth in the human heart and conscience.

Since you are a man, wherever you disagree with Calvinism, your doctrine is "man-made" or false interpretation. Your interpretation of WCF is also "mad-made" and false.

 

[redleghunter]

John Calvin was a man.
If you tell a Calvinist their doctrine is man-made, they will often say it goes back to Augustine.
Augustine was a Catholic monk. He was a man.

We have seen here that the Westminster Confession of Faith is a man-made confession that does not always agree with the Word of God.
It claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam in the garden, and that we are to keep a Sabbath day.
If it is your source of truth, it proves your doctrine is man-made.

....................................

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You claim John Calvin was a man and men creating the WCF. You are correct they are men like us.

Yet you linked a You Tube video of man.

 

[BABerean2]

You claim John Calvin was a man and men creating the WCF. You are correct they are men like us.

Yet you linked a You Tube video of man.

What that man on YouTube said, and what John Calvin said, and what you and I say about the Bible, are to be judged based on scripture.

If the WCF claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam before the fall, and that we are to keep a Sabbath day, it is to be judged on the whole of scripture.

Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and and Hebrews 12:18-24, and Colossians 2:16-17 would be a good place to start.

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[redleghunter]

What that man on YouTube said, and what John Calvin said, and what you and I say about the Bible, are to be judged based on scripture.

If the WCF claims the 10 commandments were given to Adam before the fall, and that we are to keep a Sabbath day, it is to be judged on the whole of scripture.

Hebrews 7:12, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and and Hebrews 12:18-24, and Colossians 2:16-17 would be a good place to start.

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Listen you keep saying the WCF says Adam was given the 10 commandments but it does not. It says he was given a covenant of works and obedience. That’s true as we see in Genesis 2 Adam and Eve were to obey the command given them.

I gave this some fair thought last night.

If there is any debate with the law Adam received prior to the fall as being comprehensive that could be a valid point to take. Why? It is not until after the fall Adam and Eve knew of good and evil.

Yet as I pointed out to you God’s revelation in the Bible shows a progressive revelation. From Genesis 3 and on we see God reveal His Holiness in how He judges wickedness. In Genesis 4 God judges murder with Cain. Before Cain kills Abel this is God’s warning to him:

Genesis 4: NASB

6Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7“If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 8Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.