Is Calvinism a heresy?

[Chaleb]

Lets say that you have 2 brothers and 2 sisters and a Mother.

thats 5 + you.

So, if Calvin is right, ???????? then God has pre-destined your 2 sisters and your Mother ????? to go to Hell, as that is where you go, if God does not pre-determine you to go to heaven.
As a matter of fact, according to Calvin, you are Born to go there..

And im so sorry if you have thought that all of your family would make it to Heaven, but not your neighbor or their neighbors.
See, everyone has to share in Calvinism Damnation equally.
That means your family., also... has to chip in some souls to prove that Calvinism is True.
Will it be you?

Now, Your mother and your sisters want to know why they can't go to heaven but you and your 2 brothers will.
So.....Work on that answer., until you realize just how demonic this situation is, that would so DENY the Cross of Christ and the Grace of God.

Or as Jesus told us...>"if I be lifted up (on the Cross) i will Draw ALL to me"........... and not just the "predestined elect".

 

[QvQ]

I think I gotcha here, my point is that if God gave you a convincing argument and you accepted that argument with a joypous heart in you own mind and will OR// if God regenerated your will and made your mind up for you, then from your mind's perspective and your theological viewpoint you could not tell them apart

Cat exists. Cat has an objective reality. God exists as an objecive reality. God is not a 'convincing argument" or an intellectual or emotional "believing."

 

[QvQ]

I believe, i can and scripture does completely refute the reformed theology core tenets, especially the freewill bit I am just holding back on it I am just taking softening body shots before the final knockout blow.

You don't have free will. Not in objective reality.

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church does not consider Calvinism, a theology developed by John Calvin in the 16th century, to be heretical.

I do not agree with a number of Calvinist teachings - I believe they are in error but heresy is a strong term. I don't use that term for simply being mistaken about something.

 

[BobRyan]

You don't have free will. Not in objective reality.

If we did not have free will then we would all agree on everything and God would just dictate to us our beliefs.

 

[BobRyan]

it disagrees with certain aspects of Calvinist theology, particularly the belief in double predestination and limited atonement.

I also differ with Calvinism on that point. God knows all - He knows who will be saved and who will not - but that is not predestination

 

[Chaleb]

If we did not have free will then we would all agree on everything and God would just dictate to us our beliefs.

If we didnt have free will then there would be no evil in the world, as man would not be creatig it, doing it, enjoying it, and hoping for more tomorrow.
There would be no Wars.
No Rapes.
No incest, murder, lying, cheating, stealing, sex traffic, etc.

Just a calm world full of Zombie Robots all playing nice.

Look outside your window.
Its not a nice world, as Free Will designed it that way, reader.

 

[QvQ]

If we did not have free will then we would all agree on everything and God would just dictate to us our beliefs.

So for thousands of years, most of humanity was lost in sin and darkness, condemned to death while the Israelites willed themselves to be the chosen people.

 

[BobRyan]

So for thousands of years, most of humanity was lost in sin and darkness, condemned to death while the Israelites willed themselves to be the chosen people.

Nope.

For thousands of years all mankind sinned - both Jews and Gentiles - all sinned.
For thousands of years "God so love the WORLD that He gave" John 3:16 as the pre-cross teaching of Christ states.
For thousands of years God drew all mankind to Himself starting with the fallen Adam - the father of all mankind before the flood
And then starting with Noah - the father of all mankind after the flood.

And as you may have noticed -- not all-mankind chose to follow God.

Melchizedek (a non-Hebrew) chose to follow God, David chose to follow God - but many chose not to .

Jesus "came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

 

[bbbbbbb]

Nope.

For thousands of years all mankind sinned - both Jews and Gentiles - all sinned.
For thousands of years "God so love the WORLD that He gave" John 3:16 as the pre-cross teaching of Christ states.
For thousands of years God drew all mankind to Himself starting with the fallen Adam - the father of all mankind before the flood
And then starting with Noah - the father of all mankind after the flood.

And as you may have noticed -- not all-mankind chose to follow God.

Melchizedek (a non-Hebrew) chose to follow God, David chose to follow God - but many chose not to .

Jesus "came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

And then you have the niggling problem of the vast majority of mankind who never have had the slightest inkling about anything related to the God expressed in Judeo-Christianity. Do you think they willfully decided not to follow God?

 

[BobRyan]

... the vast majority of mankind who never have had the slightest inkling about anything related to the God expressed in Judeo-Christianity. Do you think they willfully decided not to follow God?

They all came from Noah and his family. AT some point their ancestor knowingly turned away from the true God.
But far worse - they themselves turned as Romans 1 and Romans 10 state clearly.

Rom 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions;

 

[QvQ]

They all came from Noah and his family. AT some point their ancestor knowingly turned away from the true God.

Blood guilt? The sins of the father?
I don't really care about "heresy" That is the judgement of man but I am careful of blasphemy.
I am subject to God's laws. God is not subject to my laws or my limited understanding about what God did, or should have done or didn't do. I don't presume to judge God or even question His actions or judgements as they are chronicled in the Bible.
"The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, Blessed be the name of the Lord"

 

[BobRyan]

Blood guilt? The sins of the father?

Nope -

IT is a history of all mankind starting with the full light of day for Adam and for Noah - faithful saints of God - and their immediate family members

And then as already pointed out here - in their OWN lifetime

...
But far worse - they themselves turned as Romans 1 and Romans 10 state clearly.

Rom 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions;

Because God "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 --- not just "the FEW"

 

[QvQ]

IT is a history of all mankind starting with the full light of day for Adam and for Noah - faithful saints of God - and their immediate family members

And then as already pointed out here - in their OWN lifetime

Blood Guilt, the sins of the father
The question is "free will"
If a person does not have a choice because his father made that choice generations ago, then that person does not have free will to choose.
Free will must have a choice.

 

[bbbbbbb]

They all came from Noah and his family. AT some point their ancestor knowingly turned away from the true God.
But far worse - they themselves turned as Romans 1 and Romans 10 state clearly.

Rom 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions;

They all came from Noah and his family. AT some point their ancestor knowingly turned away from the true God.
But far worse - they themselves turned as Romans 1 and Romans 10 state clearly.

Rom 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions;

Actually, Noah is never used in the New Testament as the rationale for human depravity. Rather, it is Adam. The simple reality is that because Adam sinned, all mankind is held accountable for his sin and all have sinned as a result and have fallen short of the glory of God. Thus, for the billions of individuals who will never have the tiniest inkling of Christianity, all that matters is that they are descendants of Adam and that has sealed their fate. Thus, one can make the case that Adam was the only individual in history who actually had free will and was able to exercise it.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Look outside your window.
Its not a nice world, as Free Will designed it that way, reader.

That is a foreign god.

 

[Dan1988]

In his image has at least 3 layers
1.Body spirit and soul- parallel Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit
2.A base spirit from God the Father, and indwellings for Jesus an The Holy Spirit
3.All our self is conformed to the image of Christ
We were all created in 1. b ut we get the other two when saved

It absolutely is our business and it is to do with us, how can we worship such a God of secrets about how we are treated?

I can't find any Bible verses to support your view that we bare the image of God. Adam and Eve were the only persons who were created sinless, and baring the image of God. The rest of mankind inherited a corrupt nature from Adam, after he sinned against God.

Regenerated believers, still continue to sin, every single day for the rest of their lives. I can't see how one can continue to sin and bare the image of God at the same time. True believers will receive their immortal glorified bodies after death.

God hides the truth from certain people, so they can never be saved no matter how hard they search for the saving knowledge of the gospel. I can provide Biblical proof for the above, if required.

Adam and Eve enjoyed the privilege of having a personal relationship with God, in His presence until they sinned and became subjects of Satan.

Mankind no longer enjoys God's presence and God hides knowledge from us as a result of our sinful rebellion against Him. Now we seek knowledge and answers to the most important matters but we can't find the answers because God has made sure we don't find them.

In todays world, information is the most expensive commodity and the hardest thing to find and buy is accurate information. Adam didn't need to buy an expensive education, God gave him great wisdom, intelligence and knowledge free of charge.

We need to remember that we are sinners and God is Holy and perfect, so we have no right to expect anything but Gods wrath let alone demand answers to things He has hidden from us.

 

[Chaleb]

That is a foreign god.

Satan is "the god of this world".

Is that what you are trying to post?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I can't find any Bible verses to support your view that we bare the image of God.

Genesis 1:
26 And God said, Let us make man, wearing our own image and likeness; let us put him in command of the fishes in the sea, and all that flies through the air, and the cattle, and the whole earth, and all the creeping things that move on earth.
27 So God made man in his own image, made him in the image of God. Man and woman both, he created them.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Genesis 1:
26 And God said, Let us make man, wearing our own image and likeness; let us put him in command of the fishes in the sea, and all that flies through the air, and the cattle, and the whole earth, and all the creeping things that move on earth.
27 So God made man in his own image, made him in the image of God. Man and woman both, he created them.

And Genesis 9:6, and 1 Corinthians 11:7, and James 3:9, and ...