Is Calvinism a heresy?

[maxamir]

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

Grace is imparted by God through the Gospel, along with faith.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8

Paul says it’s power of God unto salvation.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

Grace, (The Spirit of grace) enables and empowers us to obey the Gospel.


Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthian 12:3



No sinner can repent without grace, (the Spirit of grace; the Holy Spirit) empower them with the God given ability to believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Repent = turn to God.

The way we repent is by confessing Jesus as LORD.





JLB

Thank God for His awesome grace that grants to His people a new heart to seek Him to receive the repentance and faith He justly commands from all!

 

[Derf]

That is not within the definition of “draw”.

• If I draw a sword and it remains in the scabbard … it was NOT DRAWN.
• If I draw a net full of fish into the boat and all the fish remain in the ocean, they were NOT DRAWN in my net.
• If I draw your attention to the fact that you have misrepresented the meaning of “draw” and you still disagree, then your attention was NOT DRAWN.

You didn't look hard enough.
6. To attract; to cause to move or tend towards itself; as a magnet or other attracting body is said to draw it.

7. To attract; to cause to turn towards itself; to engage; as, a beauty or a popular speaker draws the eyes of an assembly, or draws their attention.

Both of these (courtesy Webster's 1828 dictionary) have an option of not moving toward the drawer despite the attraction.

 

[Derf]

Thank you for confirming once again that you do not believe in Holy Scripture which speaks of the doctrine of predestination which you always ignore, and not postdestination which you assume. But more importantly, you have made evident that you do not believe a person is saved by grace alone but instead but what they do and the Scriptures plainly state that all who do so are still under the curse (Jer 17:5, Gal 3:10).

I have laboured to teach the truth of Holy Scripture here to correct people like yourself but ultimately I know that unless a person is regenerated by God they will never see this, no matter how holy they claim to be. I am also called not to continue to warn those who sincerely do not seek the truth like you and your friend here and therefore I leave you with the testimony of Holy Scripture below and confirmation that your blood for perverting the holy Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not upon me.

View attachment 332941

Yeah, I've looked through many of the scripture "proofs" and find them unpersuasive regarding the calvinistic interpretations. Mormons and JWs have scripture "proofs", too. Just splashing a large number of supposed support verse references is not effective, imho, unless you spend the time to talk about them individually.

 

[atpollard]

You didn't look hard enough.
6. To attract; to cause to move or tend towards itself; as a magnet or other attracting body is said to draw it.

7. To attract; to cause to turn towards itself; to engage; as, a beauty or a popular speaker draws the eyes of an assembly, or draws their attention.

Both of these (courtesy Webster's 1828 dictionary) have an option of not moving toward the drawer despite the attraction.

An atheist remains NOT attracted - not drawn - and I do not believe that the Greek word in the text has the same meanings. (The Greek word is used for Peter HAULING fish into the boat and a crowd DRAGGING Paul into the court.)

So, God’s “draw” in John 6:44 would appear to be effective. One also has the problem within the verse that ”those drawn” are also the same people that Jesus “will raise” on the last day. To claim that “ALL ARE DRAWN” in John 6:44 makes Jesus’ statement seem nonsensical within the surrounding context. (See John 6:43, how does Jesus response make ANY sense given their reaction and His prior statement?)

 

[Derf]

Thank you for confirming once again that you do not believe in Holy Scripture which speaks of the doctrine of predestination which you always ignore, and not postdestination which you assume. But more importantly, you have made evident that you do not believe a person is saved by grace alone but instead but what they do and the Scriptures plainly state that all who do so are still under the curse (Jer 17:5, Gal 3:10).

I have laboured to teach the truth of Holy Scripture here to correct people like yourself but ultimately I know that unless a person is regenerated by God they will never see this, no matter how holy they claim to be. I am also called not to continue to warn those who sincerely do not seek the truth like you and your friend here and therefore I leave you with the testimony of Holy Scripture below and confirmation that your blood for perverting the holy Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not upon me.

View attachment 332941

Yeah, I've looked through many of the scripture "proofs" and find them unpersuasive regarding the calvinistic interpretations. Mormons and JWs have scripture "proofs", too. Just splashing a large number of supposed support verse references is not effective, imho, unless you spend the time to talk about them individually.

An atheist remains NOT attracted - not drawn - and I do not believe that the Greek word in the text has the same meanings. (The Greek word is used for Peter HAULING fish into the boat and a crowd DRAGGING Paul into the court.)

So, God’s “draw” in John 6:44 would appear to be effective. One also has the problem within the verse that ”those drawn” are also the same people that Jesus “will raise” on the last day. To claim that “ALL ARE DRAWN” in John 6:44 makes Jesus’ statement seem nonsensical within the surrounding context. (See John 6:43, how does Jesus response make ANY sense given their reaction and His prior statement?)

What I'm having trouble with is why you would refer to vs 43 at all. But the whole passage is about people who want free food, and Jesus is telling them about food that will make them free. Why go into any of that with people who are blinded from birth?

Rather, verse after verse talks about how they may have eternal life:
[Jhn 6:35, 37, 40, 47, 50, 54, 58 KJV] 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. ... 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ... 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ... 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. ... 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. ... 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. ... 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

There is a drawing and there is a coming. The drawing is necessary but not sufficient. The coming is necessary but not sufficient. Your father is like all those that wanted the good stuff, but didn't want to eat of Jesus' flesh.

But the kicker is that he was talking to those people, telling them they needed to believe in Him.

[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV] 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

How can the work of God be for them to believe, and you are saying God isn't even drawing them?

 

[JLB777]

Thank God for His awesome grace that grants to His people a new heart to seek Him to receive the repentance and faith He justly commands from all!

First comes repentance then comes salvation.


Not the other way around.





JLB

 

[atpollard]

What I'm having trouble with is why you would refer to vs 43 at all.

Context (The verse numbers are breaking the flow of the narrative.)

John 6:35-46 [NLT]​

Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But you haven't believed in me even though you have seen me. However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. For it is my Father's will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day."​

​

Then the people began to murmur in disagreement because he had said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They said, "Isn't this Jesus, the son of Joseph? We know his father and mother. How can he say, 'I came down from heaven'?"​

​

But Jesus replied, "Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.)​

​

The common theme, contrasting THOSE THAT GRUMBLED with those that the FATHER DRAWS, repeated over and over.

 

[Derf]

Context (The verse numbers are breaking the flow of the narrative.)

John 6:35-46 [NLT]​

Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But you haven't believed in me even though you have seen me. However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. For it is my Father's will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day."​

​

Then the people began to murmur in disagreement because he had said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They said, "Isn't this Jesus, the son of Joseph? We know his father and mother. How can he say, 'I came down from heaven'?"​

​

But Jesus replied, "Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.)​

​

The common theme, contrasting THOSE THAT GRUMBLED with those that the FATHER DRAWS, repeated over and over.

But you're contrasting the wrong thing. Jesus told them to believe on Him, and anyone who did would be raised at the last day. Then He explained that those are the ones the Father gives Him (why would He want the ones that aren't willing to follow Him/eat His flesh and drink His blood, after all?)

Your view has Jesus describing a process to the people who can't do anything about it. If His salvation is only efficacious to those He chose from before the foundation of the world, and these people aren't, then they can't even understand what He's saying, according to you. Thus, whatever Jesus purpose was in communicating to these people, it wasn't efficacious. Thus, you trade one inefficacious act for another, making God foolish (which seems like it would be heretical if it makes the all-wise God out to be foolish).

 

[John Mullally]

Your view has Jesus describing a process to the people who can't do anything about it. If His salvation is only efficacious to those He chose from before the foundation of the world, and these people aren't, then they can't even understand what He's saying, according to you. Thus, whatever Jesus purpose was in communicating to these people, it wasn't efficacious. Thus, you trade one inefficacious act for another, making God foolish (which seems like it would be heretical if it makes the all-wise God out to be foolish).

Calvinists describe a world where our fate has been sealed from the foundation of the world, either for good or for bad. Recalling his own conversion to Calvinism, Calvinist scholar R.C. Sproul comments:

“I no longer feared the demons of fatalism or the ugly thought that I was being reduced to a puppet. Now I rejoiced in a gracious Savior who alone was immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”​

Perhaps some Calvinists no longer fear the “demons of fatalism” because they envision themselves as coming out on the winning end of a secret selection.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinists describe a world where our fate has been sealed before the foundation of the world, either for good or for bad.

Calvinists are not the only one that speak this way about before "the foundation of the world":

• Matthew 13:35 [NASB20] [This was] so that what was spoken through the prophet would be fulfilled: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL PROCLAIM THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."
• Matthew25:34 [NASB20] "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
• Ephesians 1:4 [NASB20] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
• Hebrews 4:3 [NASB20] For we who have believed enter [that] rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
• Revelations 13:8 [NASB20] All who live on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.
• Revelations17:8 [NASB20] "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.

Will YOU change what has been decided "from the foundation of the world" with YOUR actions or belief/unbelief?

 

[John Mullally]

Calvinists are not the only one that speak this way about before "the foundation of the world":

Something that is “from” the foundation of the world implies something that is from the time of Genesis moving forward to present, while something that is “before” the foundation of the world implies something that is before Genesis, meaning from eternity. All statements where “before the foundation of the world” is used, are given with reference to Christ. (John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) All statements where “from the foundation of the world” is used, are given with reference to man, moving us from a point of reference forward. (Matthew 25:34; Luke 11:50; Revelation 13:8) The implication, therefore, is that names are recorded in the “book of life of the Lamb who has been slain” as people become saved, starting from the time of Genesis, and continually moving forward to the present.

• Matthew 13:35 [NASB20] [This was] so that what was spoken through the prophet would be fulfilled: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL PROCLAIM THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Parables are used to convey truth and wisdom in such a way so as to deliver it to those who love and seek God, while veiling it to those who already have set themselves against God’s purpose for their life. For instance, Jesus’ sermon on being the “Bread of Life” at John chapter 6 (i.e. His body being true food and His blood being true drink) turned off many who were not right with God, with the result that they stopped following Him. (John 6:66) Meanwhile, honest and truly repentant believers will seek to understand the meaning of the parables and receive its answer from the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, compare with John 10:37-38, where even hardened unbelievers, who were not His sheep, were encouraged by Jesus anyway, so that by considering the compelling evidence of the miracles, they would believe and become His sheep.

• Matthew25:34 [NASB20] "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Who did God design to be in the kingdom? Christians. Those who are “in Christ.” Believers are the “blessed of My Father.” However, from the Calvinist perspective, the blessed ones are those whom God pre-temporally intended to bring to faith, as members of the secret elect. Calvinists assume quite a bit into the Bible, and expect others to make the same inferences, even if the immediate text offers no such support.

• Ephesians 1:4 [NASB20] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

Ephesians 1:4 is only half of a sentence. The complete sentence begins with v.3, which ends up becoming an essential point that Calvinists overlook because they already got everything they wanted from v.4.

The principle of v.3 is that God has blessed “us” (more about that in a moment) “with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” In other words, “every spiritual blessing” is for believing Christians, that is, those who are in Christ. So, if Irresistible Grace or Regeneration constituted a spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, then it would only be available for those who are “in Christ.” We are not blessed apart from Christ, but rather we are blessed “in Christ,” which is how God the Father honors His Son.

Ephesians 1:1 defines “us” in His letter as “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus” and the “saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus,” and more generally as believers, in which v.19 defines “us” as “us who believe,” meaning that “us” is to be understood as believing Christians. In fact, v.3 refers to “our” Lord Jesus Christ. How could that apply to anyone except Christians? So, it is Christians, not unbelievers (key point), who are the recipients of the full array of God’s eternally predestined spiritual blessings.

Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love​

Believers are chosen “in Him” for all of the spiritual blessings that God predestined for the church. Hence, it is a qualified choice—meaning that we are chosen “in Him” as Christians. So, when Ephesians 3:11 speaks of God’s “eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,” it pertains to Christians. Calvinists, on the other hand, insist that we (meaning Calvinism’s elect-unbelievers) are chosen “to be” or “to become” in Christ, which is not what the text states, but that’s the message that Calvinists are trying to get across with their theory of chosen unbelievers.

• Hebrews 4:3 [NASB20] For we who have believed enter [that] rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY ANGER, THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

If you had included the previous verse, (Hebrews 4:2), you see this universal imperative not to harden your heart but believe in Christ, and according to Calvinism, that’s not even your choice. Monergism says you have no say in the matter, whatsoever. Either you’re chosen to believe or not. The choice is made for you, either to be born elect or born reprobate. If so, what would be the point of Hebrews 4:2?

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,”​

• Revelations 13:8 [NASB20] All who live on the earth will worship him, [everyone] whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.
• Revelations17:8 [NASB20] "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.

Will YOU change what has been decided "from the foundation of the world" with YOUR actions or belief/unbelief?

We see in John 5:24, that people transition from death into life when they believe.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life​

 

[bbbbbbb]

Something that is “from” the foundation of the world implies something that is from the time of Genesis moving forward to present, while something that is “before” the foundation of the world implies something that is before Genesis, meaning from eternity. All statements where “before the foundation of the world” is used, are given with reference to Christ. (John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) All statements where “from the foundation of the world” is used, are given with reference to man, moving us from a point of reference forward. (Matthew 25:34; Luke 11:50; Revelation 13:8) The implication, therefore, is that names are recorded in the “book of life of the Lamb who has been slain” as people become saved, starting from the time of Genesis, and continually moving forward to the present.

Parables are used to convey truth and wisdom in such a way so as to deliver it to those who love and seek God, while veiling it to those who already have set themselves against God’s purpose for their life. For instance, Jesus’ sermon on being the “Bread of Life” at John chapter 6 (i.e. His body being true food and His blood being true drink) turned off many who were not right with God, with the result that they stopped following Him. (John 6:66) Meanwhile, honest and truly repentant believers will seek to understand the meaning of the parables and receive its answer from the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, compare with John 10:37-38, where even hardened unbelievers, who were not His sheep, were encouraged by Jesus anyway, so that by considering the compelling evidence of the miracles, they would believe and become His sheep.

Who did God design to be in the kingdom? Christians. Those who are “in Christ.” Believers are the “blessed of My Father.” However, from the Calvinist perspective, the blessed ones are those whom God pre-temporally intended to bring to faith, as members of the secret elect. Calvinists assume quite a bit into the Bible, and expect others to make the same inferences, even if the immediate text offers no such support.

Ephesians 1:4 is only half of a sentence. The complete sentence begins with v.3, which ends up becoming an essential point that Calvinists overlook because they already got everything they wanted from v.4.

The principle of v.3 is that God has blessed “us” (more about that in a moment) “with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” In other words, “every spiritual blessing” is for believing Christians, that is, those who are in Christ. So, if Irresistible Grace or Regeneration constituted a spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, then it would only be available for those who are “in Christ.” We are not blessed apart from Christ, but rather we are blessed “in Christ,” which is how God the Father honors His Son.

Ephesians 1:1 defines “us” in His letter as “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus” and the “saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus,” and more generally as believers, in which v.19 defines “us” as “us who believe,” meaning that “us” is to be understood as believing Christians. In fact, v.3 refers to “our” Lord Jesus Christ. How could that apply to anyone except Christians? So, it is Christians, not unbelievers (key point), who are the recipients of the full array of God’s eternally predestined spiritual blessings.

Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love​

Believers are chosen “in Him” for all of the spiritual blessings that God predestined for the church. Hence, it is a qualified choice—meaning that we are chosen “in Him” as Christians. So, when Ephesians 3:11 speaks of God’s “eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,” it pertains to Christians. Calvinists, on the other hand, insist that we (meaning Calvinism’s elect-unbelievers) are chosen “to be” or “to become” in Christ, which is not what the text states, but that’s the message that Calvinists are trying to get across with their theory of chosen unbelievers.

If you had included the previous verse, (Hebrews 4:2), you see this universal imperative not to harden your heart but believe in Christ, and according to Calvinism, that’s not even your choice. Monergism says you have no say in the matter, whatsoever. Either you’re chosen to believe or not. The choice is made for you, either to be born elect or born reprobate. If so, what would be the point of Hebrews 4:2?

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,”​

We see in John 5:24, that people transition from death into life when they believe.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life​

Just one niggling correction. In the Greek, Ephesians 1:3-14 is one complete sentence. To make more sense to English readers, various translators have divided into smaller sentences.

 

[atpollard]

Ephesians 1:4 is only half of a sentence. The complete sentence begins with v.3, which ends up becoming an essential point that Calvinists overlook because they already got everything they wanted from v.4.

The point I was addressing was the VERY NARROW point of the references to "the foundation of the world" in scripture. Ordinarily, I would never employ such a "cherry picking" of verses plucked from context approach ... but we are focusing on just one small PHRASE and how GOD uses it the same way that 'Calvinists' use the same phrase. For debating THEOLOGICAL TRUTHS, we would do better to focus on CHAPTERS and see what the true message is. Since this verse is from Ephesians 1 ... according to the FLOW of Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, who chooses whom? To whom belongs the glory and from whom is the debt of gratitude owed?

For a partial sentence plucked from its context, I offer to you this description of anti-Monergistic, 'free will' Synergistic, Theology:

• ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.' - Ezekiel 18

 

[QvQ]

Ordinarily, I would never employ such a "cherry picking" of verses plucked from context approach ..

I agree..
I have been very puzzled by the "Battle of the Verses" approach to theology.
Sometimes it seems as if there are preconceptions and then verses selected to prove that interpretation.
The entire Bible is torn apart then reassembled from the parts to prove the particular viewpoint of a group or individual.

 

[John Mullally]

The point I was addressing was the VERY NARROW point of the references to "the foundation of the world" in scripture. Ordinarily, I would never employ such a "cherry picking" of verses plucked from context approach ... but we are focusing on just one small PHRASE and how GOD uses it the same way that 'Calvinists' use the same phrase. For debating THEOLOGICAL TRUTHS, we would do better to focus on CHAPTERS and see what the true message is. Since this verse is from Ephesians 1 ... according to the FLOW of Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2, who chooses whom? To whom belongs the glory and from whom is the debt of gratitude owed?

Per Ephesians 1:1, Ephesians is written to the "faithful in Christ". So everywhere it states "us", "we", and "you" in the book of Ephesians you can substitute the term the "faithful in Christ" to better understand what Paul is teaching. To illustrate:

1. The "faithful in Christ" are chosen in Him before the foundations of the world (Ephesian 1:4). It is not the chosen are "faithful in Christ" before the foundation of the world.
2. The "faithful in Christ" are predestined for adoption to sonship (Ephesians 1:5).
3. He made known to "the faithful in Christ" the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ (Ephesians 1:9).
4. In order that that "the faithful in Christ" were included in Christ when you heard the message of the truth the Gospel of salvation. (Ephesians 1:14)
5. etc, etc.

For a partial sentence plucked from its context, I offer to you this description of anti-Monergistic, 'free will' Synergistic, Theology:

• ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.' - Ezekiel 18

Ezekiel 18:25 alludes to that argument (the ways of the Lord is not fair) commonly being made by people in that day. The Lord through Ezekiel gives reasons for that not being the case. The more you think that Calvinists represent God, the more inclined you will be to believe that God is unfair - its the puppetry and those "demons of fatalism" that R. C. Sproul was alluding to (see Post 1169).

What else can we find in Ezekiel 18:

• Ezekiel 18:23 says that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, so why would He be predestining anyone to hell in order to give Himself glory as Calvinists teach?

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?​

• In Ezekiel 18:30-32, God promises to change the heart of those who repent. That is completely different than what Calvinists teach, which is that God must change men's heart in order for men to repent.

Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!​

The order clearly laid out is as follows:​

• “Repent, Turn away…Rid yourselves…”​

• “…get a new heart and a new spirit.”​

​

Verse 32 makes it even more simple:​

• “Repent and…”​

• “…live!”​

 

[maxamir]

First comes repentance then comes salvation.


Not the other way around.





JLB

Like faith, repentance is a fruit of salvation granted only to those whom God has sovereignly chosen and not a condition unto it. To say otherwise is to rob a holy jealous God of the glory of His salvation, nullify grace and make both a work in which men can boast.

 

[maxamir]

Yeah, I've looked through many of the scripture "proofs" and find them unpersuasive regarding the calvinistic interpretations. Mormons and JWs have scripture "proofs", too. Just splashing a large number of supposed support verse references is not effective, imho, unless you spend the time to talk about them individually.

The verses listed are only a small portion of the truth that is seen everywhere in Scripture but you have already proven that no matter what truth is given to you, you only seek to twist them to your man centred perversions, so I choose not to waste my time any longer casting pearls before swine and making you even more accountable before God for your heresy.

Unless God chooses to humble you and cause you to fear Him and submit to Him alone, you will remain in your delusion, justly handed over to believe the lies of Satan (2 Thes 2:9-12). All I can do for you and all like you, is pray that He would have mercy upon you to see His sovereign grace found only in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Derf]

The verses listed are only a small portion of the truth that is seen everywhere in Scripture but you have already proven that no matter what truth is given to you, you only seek to twist them to your man centred perversions, so I choose not to waste my time any longer casting pearls before swine and making you even more accountable before God for your heresy.

Unless God chooses to humble you and cause you to fear Him and submit to Him alone, you will remain in your delusion, justly handed over to believe the lies of Satan (2 Thes 2:9-12). All I can do for you and all like you, is pray that He would have mercy upon you to see His sovereign grace found only in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

View attachment 333042

That's convenient. But it makes sense that you can only effectively preach to the regenerate, as your message is one of hopelessness, and certainly not good news to anyone, because no one in Calvinism can be sure he isn't a tare, merely being tolerated until the harvest, or just being used by God to refine the pre-saved. Be careful maxamir...oh, wait. It does no good to be careful, because your fate was sealed before you were born.

 

[Derf]

Calvinists describe a world where our fate has been sealed from the foundation of the world, either for good or for bad. Recalling his own conversion to Calvinism, Calvinist scholar R.C. Sproul comments:

“I no longer feared the demons of fatalism or the ugly thought that I was being reduced to a puppet. Now I rejoiced in a gracious Savior who alone was immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”​

Perhaps some Calvinists no longer fear the “demons of fatalism” because they envision themselves as coming out on the winning end of a secret selection.

I'm sure you're correct. But they have no assurance of that. if God wants them to have an outwardly faithful life, but at the end they apostatize, well, that's God's will for them, and they just have to accept it as the best for them to have wasted an entire life supposedly following Christ, only to lose it all at the last second of their life, and go to hell forever--all by God's decree. There's no place for faith in such a scheme.

 

[maxamir]

The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the Bible. Do not be fooled!

1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

2. The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often frustrated, for many refuse to come.

The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

3. The Christ of Arminianism - can not regenerate and save a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will" may not be violated by Christ.

The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)

4. The Christ of Arminianism - died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. His death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom he died are lost.

The Christ of the Bible - died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. (Luke 19:10, John 10:14-15 & 26, Acts 20:28, Rom. 5:10, Eph. 5:25, Hebr. 9:12, I Peter 3:18)

5. The Christ of Arminianism - loses many whom he has "saved" because they do not continue in faith. Even if he does give them "eternal security," as some say, that security is not based upon his will or work but the choice which the sinner made when he accepted Christ.

The Christ of the Bible - preserves His chosen people so that they can not lose their salvation but persevere in the faith to the very end. He preserves them by the sovereign electing will of God, the power of His death, and the mighty working of His Spirit. (John 5:24, John 10:26-29, Rom. 8:29-30, Rom. 8:35-39, I Peter 1:2-5, Jude 24-25)

As you can see, although the Christ of Arminianism and the Christ of the Bible may at first seem to be the same, they are very different. One is a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign "free will" of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills.

If you believe and serve the Christ of Arminianism, you must recognize the fact that you do not serve the Christ of the Bible. You have been deceived! Study the Scriptures and learn of the True Christ. Pray for grace to repent and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

The Christ of Arminianism