Is belief enough to be saved?

[Habakk]

Paul did not contradict the LORD, but his writings have simply been abused by some unstable souls who insist that Paul taught faith alone is how one is saved.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. Galatians 5:6

This is what brother Paul has always taught: the faithful will live by love (for love is the fulfilment of the Law).

Agreed, and Paul also quoted the well known scripture in the book of Habakkuk as a precursor to justification doctrine. “the just shall LIVE by faith…” It’s an ongoing situation that requires the performance of the works of faith also.

 

[Stravinsk]

Paul did not contradict the LORD, but his writings have simply been abused by some unstable souls who insist that Paul taught faith alone is how one is saved.

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. Galatians 5:6

This is what brother Paul has always taught: the faithful will live by love (for love is the fulfilment of the Law).

Paul is an author that one needs to be very,very careful with. He taught many things - mixed in error with truth - and it isn't wise to generalize what he taught.

I'm sorry - I don't agree - it is very very easy to take many of the writings of Paul and come to that very conclusion.

Paul actually taught this:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

If one were to take that to heart - it would be very difficult to delight in the law of the Lord, wouldn't it? As scripture tells us? Or to call it righteous, as Scripture tells us? Is the law a lamp and light (Prov 6:23), or is it "the strength of sin"?

Paul preaches lawlessness in numerous places. Then contradicts himself and preaches law, and limited law.

Always remember that Paul is a Pharisee.

 

[Habakk]

Paul is an author that one needs to be very,very careful with. He taught many things - mixed in error with truth - and it isn't wise to generalize what he taught.

I'm sorry - I don't agree - it is very very easy to take many of the writings of Paul and come to that very conclusion.

Paul actually taught this:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

If one were to take that to heart - it would be very difficult to delight in the law of the Lord, wouldn't it? As scripture tells us? Or to call it righteous, as Scripture tells us? Is the law a lamp and light (Prov 6:23), or is it "the strength of sin"?

Paul preaches lawlessness in numerous places. Then contradicts himself and preaches law, and limited law.

Always remember that Paul is a Pharisee.

I really don’t see any contradiction there, the scripture is in perfect harmony.

 

[Stravinsk]

I really don’t see any contradiction there, the scripture is in perfect harmony.

Yehshua ha'Mashiach vs 'Paul'Saul - A list of contradictory statements - YouTube

For those with ears to hear. There is also a 2nd part.

 

[Lion King]

Paul is an author that one needs to be very,very careful with. He taught many things - mixed in error with truth - and it isn't wise to generalize what he taught.

I'm sorry - I don't agree - it is very very easy to take many of the writings of Paul and come to that very conclusion.

Paul actually taught this:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

If one were to take that to heart - it would be very difficult to delight in the law of the Lord, wouldn't it? As scripture tells us? Or to call it righteous, as Scripture tells us? Is the law a lamp and light (Prov 6:23), or is it "the strength of sin"?

Paul preaches lawlessness in numerous places. Then contradicts himself and preaches law, and limited law.

Always remember that Paul is a Pharisee.

Now, I don't want to derail this thread, but as Habbak said earlier, I do not see any fault here. The Law does condemns us all to death (Romans 6:23), we are all transgressors of His Holy Law (1 John 3:4), but only by our LORD Jesus Christ are we alive. Glory be to the LORD!

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:56-57

In fact, Paul also recognizes the Law of God as being holy:

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. Romans 7:12-13


If you would like to discuss about Paul any further, please create a new thread.

 

[Lion King]

Agreed, and Paul also quoted the well known scripture in the book of Habakkuk as a precursor to justification doctrine. “the just shall LIVE by faith…” It’s an ongoing situation that requires the performance of the works of faith also.

That is indeed true brother, it is an on-going situation right unto the end: we all need to work hard to prove we really are among those God has called and chosen.

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Hebrews 10:38


As Peter also says:

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-11

 

[Lindas Place]

Some people think that their good works will get them into heaven. ..."and in thy name done many wonderful works?" People who think they are good will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Self-righteousness is deadly! On judgment day there will be many who thought they were going to heaven because of their good works, but Christ will only say "depart from me". Matthew 7:22,23

 

[spartakis]

How do you show that you love Jesus Christ?

He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

You show your saved by your works. Being a witness for Christ. Are we changing topics of how to become saved to how to show your saved?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Some people think that their good works will get them into heaven. ..."and in thy name done many wonderful works?" People who think they are good will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Self-righteousness is deadly! On judgment day there will be many who thought they were going to heaven because of their good works, but Christ will only say "depart from me". Matthew 7:22,23

Amen, sister. Isaiah 64:6 tells us that our works of righteousness are like filthy rags to God. And in Proverbs 15:8 and Proverbs 21:27 we are told that the sacrifice of the wicked is detestable to God and an abomination to Him. We are saved by grace through faith and not by our works (Romans 1:16-17; Romans 3:21-26; Romans 5:1-11; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Ephesians 1:7-14; Ephesians 2:13; Colossians 2:11-15; Hebrews 9:11-15; Hebrews 10:1-22; Titus 3:4-7; 1 Peter 1:18-21; 1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:1-2). God only provided one way for us to be saved and that is through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Galatians 3:1-6:
"1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham 'believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'”

Galatians 5:1-6:
"1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

 

[Lion King]

Some people think that their good works will get them into heaven. ..."and in thy name done many wonderful works?" People who think they are good will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Self-righteousness is deadly! On judgment day there will be many who thought they were going to heaven because of their good works, but Christ will only say "depart from me". Matthew 7:22,23

Even though you do not see it yet, you have already proved what I have been saying all along. Why were those people sent away from the LORD's presence?

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23


Just who are those who practice lawlessness? Those who do not love, for love is the LAW!

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10



This is what the LORD expects from every one who says they have FAITH in Him. This is worshipping the LORD in spirit and truth.

“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

“If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday. Isaiah 58:6-10

 

[B-74]

Some people think that their good works will get them into heaven. ..."and in thy name done many wonderful works?" People who think they are good will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Self-righteousness is deadly! On judgment day there will be many who thought they were going to heaven because of their good works, but Christ will only say "depart from me". Matthew 7:22,23

1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[Lion King]

You show your saved by your works. Being a witness for Christ. Are we changing topics of how to become saved to how to show your saved?

Of course brother, good works do indeed confirm that we really are among those called and chosen by the LORD.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:8-10

 

[Montalban]

Exactly we are called to do good works but good works will never save anybody. Only trusting in Christ

And yet Christ separates the sheep from the goats precisely because of works

This is not to say works alone save. They cannot be separated. Faith + works

 

[Montalban]

True believers would not think of presenting their own works before the throne of God for their righteousness; their hope of salvation rests in the righteousness of Christ.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and HIS righteousness" Matthew 6:33

They're not their own works. They're Godly works. Jesus himself did them - healing the sick, etc.

 

[spartakis]

And yet Christ separates the sheep from the goats precisely because of works

This is not to say works alone save. They cannot be separated. Faith + works

We are saved unto good works. Read my other post its been explained more than once. I am sure this thread could go another twenty pages and be at the same spot. Like I said answer the questions in my other post and study the matter with prayer and open mind and if you still feel for you to get to heaven is up to what you do and not Christ then that is what you believe. But just to get it straight you believe you can earn God's grace?

 

[Lindas Place]

Amen, sister. Isaiah 64:6 tells us that our works of righteousness are like filthy rags to God. And in Proverbs 15:8 and Proverbs 21:27 we are told that the sacrifice of the wicked is detestable to God and an abomination to Him. We are saved by grace through faith and not by our works (Romans 1:16-17; Romans 3:21-26; Romans 5:1-11; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Ephesians 1:7-14; Ephesians 2:13; Colossians 2:11-15; Hebrews 9:11-15; Hebrews 10:1-22; Titus 3:4-7; 1 Peter 1:18-21; 1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:1-2). God only provided one way for us to be saved and that is through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Galatians 3:1-6:
"1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham 'believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.'”

Galatians 5:1-6:
"1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

 

[Montalban]

We are saved into good works. Read my other post its been explained more than once. I am sure this thread could go another twenty pages and be at the same spot. Like I said answer the questions in my other post and study the matter with prayer and open mind and if you still feel for you to get to heaven is up to what you do and not Christ then that is what you believe.

No. That's not true.

There's been many who argue that when we accept God, and have true faith our nature changes and we would therefore do good works.

If this were true Jesus would not call on us to do them, because we'd do them anyway, because of our true nature.

Jesus in fact separates the sheep from the goats to show that people need to know what to do.

If it didn't matter, he'd not call us to do so.

If we would do so automatically, because of our changed nature, we'd not be called to do what we would already do.

 

[spartakis]

No. That's not true.

There's been many who argue that when we accept God, and have true faith our nature changes and we would therefore do good works.

If this were true Jesus would not call on us to do them, because we'd do them anyway, because of our true nature.

Jesus in fact separates the sheep from the goats to show that people need to know what to do.

If it didn't matter, he'd not call us to do so.

If we would do so automatically, because of our changed nature, we'd not be called to do what we would already do.

yes it is true we are new creatures. The old man is gone. I never cared about doing anything good until I was saved. Same with millions of drug dealers. Murders rapist prostitutes and etc that accepted Christ once again you did not answer the questions I asked earlier. I will repository then again.

 

[Lindas Place]

Romans 9:31-33
31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”
33 As it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who trusts in (Jesus) him will never be put to shame.”

 

[Lion King]

True believers would not think of presenting their own works before the throne of God for their righteousness; their hope of salvation rests in the righteousness of Christ.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and HIS righteousness" Matthew 6:33

They're not their own works. They're Godly works. Jesus himself did them - healing the sick, etc.

Exactly! The works of the Law (e.g circumcision, keeping the Sabbath, eating "clean" meat etc) are different from the works of God, and when Paul speaks about being justified not by works, he is only referring to the former and not the latter. That is why they is never any contradiction or conflict between James and Paul, because James only talks about the works of God (love). This is also the very reason we shall all be judged by our own works (Matthew 25:31-46): Anyone who does not bear the fruit (the works of God), will be cut off from the vine.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6

_ _ _ _ _

Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:8-14