Is being Wiccan moral?

emerald Dragon · Nov 10, 2003

You can be moral without being Christian. If being kind and harmless are the attributes we are testing, then they are moral.

I do not know everything about Wiccans, but there are other attributes that define morality

we must consider(for everyone, not just Wiccans)Sexual Morality, honesty, etc.

Teh Wiccan · Nov 10, 2003

Sexual Morality eh? If thats the case, I'm screwed.

tcampen · Nov 10, 2003

Whitehorse said:
I think the arrogance comes from not understanding that we do not have a right to invent our own realities. I think there's arrogance in coming into a Christian community and saying Christian beliefs are arrogant, bigotted, ridiculous-this is arrogant.

Yes, and some Christians even claim other people's faith is influenced by satan and will spend eternity in Hell for it. All sides are guilty of this type of conduct. Arrogance knows no bounds, that is very correct.

...but on the concept of going to places where people think differently and telling them to get into their place. That I have a problem with. Christian bashing, I have a problem with. If it's uncomfortable, why would anyone want to hang out with people who think the things that are so objectionable. One can only presume it's to cause aggravation.

Well put. Respect is a two-way street, and bashing Christians for their beliefs or Christians bashing anyone not a Christian for their beliefs is all wrong. Civil discussion of ideas does not require bashing. We should all remember this.

stillsmallvoice · Nov 10, 2003

Hi all!

SquareC posted:

Samhain was beautiful, a glorious night of prayer and remembrance. Thank you!

You're welcome!

What do Wiccans do on Samhain?

Be well!

ssv

Mylinkay Asdara · Nov 10, 2003

Well, I had a lovely feast after a three day fast with my friends at sunset and then we prayed together and lit candles for our departed loved ones and our ancestral dead. After some meditation time we went out and had a fun night partying (Samhain is a harvest festival and we thought that after we'd observed the holiday in holiness we could spare some time to celebrate my best friend's 21st birthday, but that was a departure from the regular ritual activity-but then again, you only turn 21 once)

SquareC · Nov 10, 2003

Well, first I took my little girl trick or treating. Mommy's work is never done! Then, I held a solitary prayer vigil for my friend who died earlier this year, remembering the good things about him, wishing his spirit well in the next life, and lit candles in honor of my ancestors. Following this, I went to a friends' Halloween party for the last couple of hours and celebrated the harvest (symbolically, I'm a city gal, lol). The traditions I learned emphasize both the solomn and celebrational aspects of Samhain.

As I once posted on another forum:

Samhain (pronounced Sow-en) is the pagan New Year, marking a time of remembrance, a time of transformation and inner work. It is the time to honour those who have died, to remember our ancestors and seek wisdom from those past. It is a time of endings, but also a time of beginnings, to give up the past and look to the future. At Samhain, we look back and take stock of the past and contemplate what we have learned. Samhain is also the time to face our shadow, the dark side of ourselves. It is a festival of harvest-time, marking the gathering of crops and thinning of herds for survival during the Winter. It is one of the major Sabbats of the pagan calandar, a time for rituals involving scryings and banishings.

It's safe to say that Samhain does not really mean the same thing to every Wiccan, as it is also safe to say there are many ways it is celebrated, all valid expressions of the season. We are an independant bunch, while we don't usually agree on beliefs among ourselves, we don't see it as neccessary for each of us to have the exact same beliefs. The Lady and Lord call each to worship as is right for each person.

TheOriginalWhitehorse · Nov 10, 2003

SSS, then how do you account for the fact that the Gentiles have Yahweh? And what about Noah having no connection with salvific covenant? And that he had nothing to do with the Gentiles having this salvation?

TheOriginalWhitehorse · Nov 10, 2003

emerald Dragon said:
You can be moral without being Christian. If being kind and harmless are the attributes we are testing, then they are moral.

I do not know everything about Wiccans, but there are other attributes that define morality

we must consider(for everyone, not just Wiccans)Sexual Morality, honesty, etc.

Do you feel anyone can make it to heaven without the blood of Christ?

dlamberth · Nov 10, 2003

Whitehorse said:
Do you feel anyone can make it to heaven without the blood of Christ?

I'm trying to figure out the connection between your comment and the one you were responding to.

..

dlamberth · Nov 10, 2003

Whitehorse said:
I think there's arrogance in coming into a Christian community and saying Christian beliefs are arrogant, bigotted, ridiculous-this is arrogant.

Im just sharing how someone who was not a Christian might take your statement. There is something to learn in what I said, IF you are really interested in learning how to get someone who is not a Christian to open up to Christianity. I was doing that in pointing out how I feel when someone who does not know my relationship with my Beloved, yet they still feel compelled to tell me that they have Truth and I donthow can I help but NOT take that as arrogance?!? Thats a pretty normal reaction for Human Beings to take, dont you think?

That I have a problem with. Christian bashing

I understand why you don't like the bashing of Christians, but just what are Christians doing in the Islamic Threads?!? Oh ya...that's Truth, not bashing. ya..right!!

I have a problem with. If it's uncomfortable, why would anyone want to hang out with people who think the things that are so objectionable. One can only presume it's to cause aggravation.

I'm wondering what "YOUR" doing here in a cross Christian/Non-Christian area. IF your uncomfortable with what non-Christians have to say, perhaps you might be more comfortable else where.

Now, the reason Im here is to learn. Thats an honest answer. And you just might have a wonderful opportunity to learn as well in what works and what doesn't in what it might take to open up non-Christians to Christ. Maybe ask why am I saying some of the things I write about? Perhaps, just perhaps there is something to learn in what makes a non-Christian tick?

Your right of courseperhaps I should move onIll seriously think about it.

..

TheOriginalWhitehorse · Nov 10, 2003

Well, it all boils down to what a person wants: truth, or belief. There is a big difference between the two. And this will determine not only what a person thinks, but how they shape their arguments as well.

stillsmallvoice · Nov 11, 2003

Hi all!

Thank you, to Mylinkay Asdara and SquareC for explaining Samhain to me. You honor me by teaching me!

Whitehorse posted:

SSS, then how do you account for the fact that the Gentiles have Yahweh?

You mean the various Noahide groups http://www.noach.com/links.html, right?

And what about Noah having no connection with salvific covenant?

But we believe that he did, by bequeathing the 7 precepts to humanity.

And that he had nothing to do with the Gentiles having this salvation?

See above.

Do you feel anyone can make it to heaven without the blood of Christ?

My faith is not exclusionist; we Jews believe that, "The righteous of all nations have a share in the world-to-come."

dlamberth posted:

Now, the reason I’m here is to learn.

Me too!

Whitehorse posted:

Well, it all boils down to what a person wants: truth, or belief.

But truth is like a diamond; it has many facets, with each one providing a unique perspective from which to behold the wondrous jewel.

Be well!

ssv

Ampmonster · Nov 11, 2003

i know nothing about them. so im not gonna say. i knew a few back in the day and they seem cool, though

SquareC · Nov 11, 2003

Whitehorse said:
Do you feel anyone can make it to heaven without the blood of Christ?

Simply put, I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

stillsmallvoice said:
Thank you, to Mylinkay Asdara and SquareC for explaining Samhain to me. You honor me by teaching me!

You are always welcome. You honor me with your interest and desire to learn!

stillsmallvoice said:
But truth is like a diamond; it has many facets, with each one providing a unique perspective from which to behold the wondrous jewel.

Beautifully put! You are quite poetic, ssv!

TheOriginalWhitehorse · Nov 11, 2003

Sss, can you be a little more specific? Moreover, where is this many faceted theology in scripture? How do you get around the first commandment? And the logical kinks have not yet been worked out on this ideology that there are many ways to God. It's one thing to assert it, but no one has answered the logical impossibility of it.

stillsmallvoice · Nov 12, 2003

Hi all!

SquareC, thank you!

Whitehorse, you posted:

Sss, can you be a little more specific?

OK, I'll try.

Moreover, where is this many faceted theology in scripture? How do you get around the first commandment? And the logical kinks have not yet been worked out on this ideology that there are many ways to God.

I'll say it one more time:

Judaism most definitely does NOT believe that it's "our way or the highway to hell" (i.e. We don't believe that all non-Jews will go to hell). Our Sages say that, "The righteous of all nations have a share in the world-to-come." We believe that whereas there are 613 precepts/commandments in the Torah (Genesis to Deuteronomy; our most basic scripture) that are incumbent/binding on Jews, there are only 7 that are binding on non-Jews. Using the traditional methods of Jewish Biblical exegesis, our Sages infer these 7 precepts from Genesis 9:1-17 & believe that God gave them to Noah & his sons. Since Noah & sons were not Jewish, we refer to these 7 precepts as the 7 Noahide Precepts. The 7 are: 1) To establish courts of justice; 2) No blasphemy; 3) No idolatry; 4) No incest/adultery; 5) Do not shed blood; 6) Do not steal & 7) Do not cut meat from a living animal. ("Bnai Noach" means "Children of Noah" in Hebrew and refers to those non-Jews who abide by the 7 precepts. See http://www.noach.com/links.html for some interesting links.)

Thus, we believe that God has laid out two tracks for humanity, one for Jews & one for non-Jews.

We read Exodus 20:2 ("I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage") as the 1st of the 10 Commandments (which are actually 15 separate precepts, see http://www.christianforums.com/t34036&highlight=commandments). To quote the great Homer Simpson (the episode where he got his hand stuck in the cold drink machine at the nuclear plant), "Your point being?"

Be well!

ssv

Godschild · Nov 16, 2003

I personally don't believe that being wiccan is right. I'm not condemning it, but I'm also not condoning it. I personally believe in the Bible and it's stance on it. But I'm not going to brow-beat a wiccan with it. I don't believe it is the "path" for me. I don't believe in a wiccan "goddess", but if there's someone that does, then that's their business. It's not my place to judge.

Havoc · Nov 17, 2003

Well said Godschild.

Godschild · Nov 17, 2003

Havoc said:
Well said Godschild.

Um...Thanks, Havoc. It's just how I feel about it.

Blissman · Dec 1, 2003

SquareC said:
The Rede, itself, does not include spells of any sort, it is similar to the 10 commandments in that it contains instructions on behaviour. See here: The Wiccan Rede The particular portions most see or hear are:

Mind the Threefold Law you should,
Three times bad and three times good.

Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
"An' Harm ye none, do as you will"

Wiccans respect free will more than most other religions. This is primarily because so many of us remember "the burning times" and the years of persecution, when we were denied the right to practice our own religion openly, and because our beliefs are not codified so strictly as many others. Wiccans worship the God and Goddess under many names and in many fashions, and although there are many things in common among us, there are also numerous small differences. So, while someone casting a "love spell" might consider themselves Wiccan, I would not consider them so, they are denying someones' free will and causing harm. This harm will return to them three times over what they cause. But it is most certainly NOT following the Rede.

I am confused about a few things, and pardon me, no offense intended, I find the idea of casting spells about as real as Lycanthopes. I hope that you are not offended by that, but the idea of casting spells doesn't seem real to me. Perhaps it is my concept of what is meant by 'casting spells'. My conception of 'spells' comes from my childhood - old ladies in black robes with pointed hats stirring a black cauldron chanting "boil, boil, ..." something. Black cats, magic wands, broom sticks, and such.

How can you remember 'the burning times' if Wicca is perhaps 50 - 60 years old?

Is being Wiccan moral?

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