Is being Wiccan moral?

[Teh Wiccan]

Considering that the basic requirment of Wicca is do no harm, and as a Wiccan you are supposed to be kind, would it be moral?

 

[Ryder]

I think that would really depend on 'moral'. Moral in a simple legal sense within liberal society, then very likely yes. Moral in a biblical Christian sense, no.

 

[ZiSunka]

Considering that the basic requirment of Wicca is do no harm, and as a Wiccan you are supposed to be kind, would it be moral?

If kindness and harmlessness were the only two moral values, then yes, wicca would be moral.

 

[Ryder]

That's another good way of putting it.

 

[SquareC]

Simply put, it depends on your definition of "moral." Naturally, as a Wiccan myself, I find it profoundly moral, and I do consider myself a moral person. I do not believe in causing harm, directly or indirectly (such as through lying) and in general my moral philosophy closely mirrors that of the Christians of my aquaintance. The main difference appears to be that I am moral through my own personal desires to be, rather than through fear of "banishment to hell" or "divine retribution." Not implying that this is the only reason Christians are moral, far from it. But it can be seen in some Christians, as well as in some other religions.

 

[Ryder]

Cool sig, I also like the counter expresion: Be careful you aren't so open-minded your brains fall out.

What about curses 'n stuff in Wiccan (I'm not implying all wiccans do this or trying to pin ya with it) just honest question, wiccan appears to have some roots in not so friendly practices.

 

[ZiSunka]

Osama bin Laden considers himself a moral person, too.

You can't depend on your own feelings and affirmations to determine whether or not you are truly moral.

 

[Volos]

Origianally posted by Ryder:
What about curses 'n stuff in Wiccan (I'm not implying all wiccans do this or trying to pin ya with it) just honest question, wiccan appears to have some roots in not so friendly practices.

Exactly what ‘curses 'n stuff’ are you talking about?

Wicca has a short but colorful history. I have never run into a verifiable reference to the existence of Wicca before about 1935.

 

[ZiSunka]

Exactly what ‘curses 'n stuff’ are you talking about?

Wicca has a short but colorful history. I have never run into a verifiable reference to the existence of Wicca before about 1935.

New York Times did a really neat article on the origins of Wicca about three years ago. They traced it's origins back to 1930, from a novel written that year. I can't remember the name of the novel, but it was written as fiction, and somehow it got assumed into a new spirituality that claimed to have this ancient history. I tried searching back issues of nytimes.com, where I originally read it, but they charge to read archived articles.

I'll try to find it some other way.

 

[SquareC]

What about curses 'n stuff in Wiccan (I'm not implying all wiccans do this or trying to pin ya with it) just honest question, wiccan appears to have some roots in not so friendly practices.

Well, any genuine Wiccan will not do curses.....according to the Threefold Law, which the majority of Wiccans espouse, any curse cast upon someone else will rebound upon the caster threefold times (any wrong done another, for that matter, not just curses) so I, personally, would not consider someone who curses another to be a TRUE Wiccan. But this is by the same token that I would not consider someone who announces to the world that they are Christian, and yet follows none of the teachings of Christ, to be a TRUE Christian. Did this answer your question? I have no objections to answering honest questions, and am never offended by them. Feel free to email, PM or post any other questions you may have, I am happy to answer, although I am not the only Wiccan around, and some believe other than I do, after 17 years, I am pretty knowledgable on the subject!

 

[ZiSunka]

"Because of this it is not an easy task to discover the exact origins of Wicca, and hence there are many varying viewpoints. Another competing viewpoint is that Wicca was founded in the UK during the 1940's, and is relatively new. This is explained by Silver RavenWolf:
"Wicca, as you practice the religion today, is a new religion, barely fifty years old. The techniques you use at present are not entirely what your elders practiced even thirty years ago. Of course, threads of 'what was' weave through the tapestry of 'what is now.' ...in no way can we replicate to perfection the precise circumstances of environment, society, culture, religion and magick a hundred years ago, or a thousand. Why would we want to ? The idea is to go forward with the knowledge of the past, tempered by the tools of our own age" (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm)."


"When Wicca is considered a new religion, it's origins can be seen in various works. The main people who initiated the movement for the popularity of Wicca were Charles Leland, Margaret Murray, and Gerald Gardner. Some people argue that before Margaret Murray's book The Witch Cult in Western Europe (1921) and The God of the Witches, Wicca did not exist. This sect of the public believes that Murray initiated Wicca and Gardner helped increase the popularity of it with his book High Magic's Aid (1949). B.A. Davis-Howe claims for certain that: "Wicca was invented by Gerald Gardner (and possibly some other folks), probably around fall equinox 1939. The seed of inspiration for this invention was Margaret Murray's books, The Witch Cult in Western Europe and The God of the Witches" (http://www.wiccanet.net/wicca/reading_room/66.html)."

 

[Ryder]

Exactly what ‘curses 'n stuff’ are you talking about?

Wicca has a short but colorful history. I have never run into a verifiable reference to the existence of Wicca before about 1935.

Oh lets see, the rede contains detailed binding spells designed to (for example) cause someone to fall in love with you and/or find you sexualy attractive. On face value, is it harmful? Yes, assuming it worked ( *chuckles* ) it would be a deliberate violation of the other persons free will. So I guess according to most wiccans, violating someones free will is ok as long as physical injury does not result. In my opinion that is a patheticly short sighted view of morality.

Wiccans won't call it a curse. It's a love spell, doesn't that sound lovely? But it is designed to circumvent anothers free will. And most happy-go-nice wiccans will try these binding spells and also declare that they abhore curses.

 

[Ryder]

Oh, another thought. Those spells that call for the blood of animals, like a white dove (for love bindings if I remember correctly) how do you get that without harming a living creature? It's in the rede and most spell libraries. If your answer is find a dead one, then I gotta ask everyone. How many dead white doves have you come across in your life? Any? Oh, and they also have to be very recently dead too, else the blood is gonna be akin to dry cake mix with bateria and mold throughout.

 

[SquareC]

Oh lets see, the rede contains detailed binding spells designed to (for example) cause someone to fall in love with you and/or find you sexualy attractive. On face value, is it harmful? Yes, assuming it worked ( *chuckles* ) it would be a deliberate violation of the other persons free will. So I guess according to most wiccans, violating someones free will is ok as long as physical injury does not result. In my opinion that is a patheticly short sighted view of morality.

The Rede, itself, does not include spells of any sort, it is similar to the 10 commandments in that it contains instructions on behaviour. See here: The Wiccan Rede The particular portions most see or hear are:

Mind the Threefold Law you should,
Three times bad and three times good.

Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
"An' Harm ye none, do as you will"

Wiccans respect free will more than most other religions. This is primarily because so many of us remember "the burning times" and the years of persecution, when we were denied the right to practice our own religion openly, and because our beliefs are not codified so strictly as many others. Wiccans worship the God and Goddess under many names and in many fashions, and although there are many things in common among us, there are also numerous small differences. So, while someone casting a "love spell" might consider themselves Wiccan, I would not consider them so, they are denying someones' free will and causing harm. This harm will return to them three times over what they cause. But it is most certainly NOT following the Rede.

 

[SquareC]

Oh, another thought. Those spells that call for the blood of animals, like a white dove (for love bindings if I remember correctly) how do you get that without harming a living creature? It's in the rede and most spell libraries. If your answer is find a dead one, then I gotta ask everyone. How many dead white doves have you come across in your life? Any? Oh, and they also have to be very recently dead too, else the blood is gonna be akin to dry cake mix with bateria and mold throughout.

Not in the Wiccan Rede either. See above. I have never done a spell calling for blood. I haven't known any of my Wiccan friends to do a spell calling for blood. I think you have us confused with someone else, or else got ahold of some bad information.

 

[Ryder]

You may very well be correct SquareC, my understanding of the rede and wiccan spells is rudamentary at best, but I would still postulate that a considerably large number of people calling themselves wiccan would not consider love spells bad/wrong like curses.
They may not be what you call 'true wiccans', but they call themselves as such.

 

[SquareC]

You may very well be correct SquareC, my understanding of the rede and wiccan spells is rudamentary at best, but I would still postulate that a considerably large number of people calling themselves wiccan would not consider love spells bad/wrong like curses.
They may not be what you call 'true wiccans', but they call themselves as such.

Yes, I am aware of them. I put them under the same category with people who call themselves Christians, and yet do not follow Christ's teachings, and so on for all religions in the world. Let not the bad apple spoil the barrel for all. We all have people in our religions who do not follow the teachings of that religion, and yet proclaim loudly what they pretend to be. :o And they embarrass me a great deal, but what can one do?

 

[Ryder]

Yes, I am aware of them. I put them under the same category with people who call themselves Christians, and yet do not follow Christ's teachings, and so on for all religions in the world. Let not the bad apple spoil the barrel for all. We all have people in our religions who do not follow the teachings of that religion, and yet proclaim loudly what they pretend to be. :o And they embarrass me a great deal, but what can one do?

Well, being Christian I'm hardly goin to say that I think wiccan is moral under any circumstances, but I'll try not to lump all the wiccan wannabes together anymore.

 

[SquareC]

Well, being Christian I'm hardly goin to say that I think wiccan is moral under any circumstances, but I'll try not to lump all the wiccan wannabes together anymore.

Thank you. That is all one can reasonably ask.

 

[Arikay]

I dont know too much about Wicca (ok so I should know a lot more, but im being lazy on the reading).

However, I do know that part of the belief is that harm or bad intentions (especially with magic) will come back apon the doer 3 fold. (probably been mentioned before).
Seems rather interesting, and something that IMHO needs to be in christianity.

Although its suggested that you find your own spells that fit you, I remember reading about one that was very interesting.

I wont go into the spell, but the point was to get rid of an annoying person in your life. The spell wished the person you were trying to get ride of, a happier and better life, just without contact with you. It seemed like a very humble spell, as it was fixing the problem with good, and asking for your "enemy" to have a good life.

As far as the original question,
Just the religion: Yes Wicca is a Moral religion.

Wiccans: Cant say, all that I have met have been moral and nice, but there are always bad apples.

From christian perspective: It may be based on good thoughts, but since its not christian and practices "witchcraft" its not moral.

From my perspective: see my first two answers.


Just some random thoughts.