Yes it is my problem. I'm 70 and technology is a challenge....friend. So maybe you could teach me or use "Search" yourself and share your opinion.Don't know how to use a forum's "Search" feature - is that your problem, friend?
Yes it is my problem. I'm 70 and technology is a challenge....friend.
Yes, I am. And as you can see, since you're so techy, I've been here for 11 years compared to your verbose one month. And I have never had anyone make the request you did. So since I've been a believer longer than you've been alive, I'm going to just assume you don't have a scripture, and let it be with that.
- However, the baptized believers in Samaria did not receive the Spirit until the Apostles laid hands on them. Acts chapter eight.
And it’s your “I don’t know “ failure to understand, which makes me think the effort of ‘finding what you’ve said’ as being ‘probably not worth my effort.A believer for longer than I've been alive? Possibly, though I don't know what that has to do with anything. Bottom line is, if you want to read my stuff - you can use the "Search" feature to find it. If you're unwilling to use said feature, that's fine - but then don't claim that you want to read my stuff.
And it’s your “I don’t know “ failure to understand, which makes me think the effort of ‘finding what you’ve said’ as being ‘probably not worth my effort.
I notice that your KJV translation says “holy Spirit” in both Isaiah 63 and Ephesians 1:13.... as well as in 4:30 which you didn’t use. So I have a question, what makes you think it’s referring to the Holy Spirit OF God, and not the holy Spirit of Christ FROM God in both your Isa. and Eph. quotes?The above is the exception, rather than the rule.
Peter's words in the passage below reveal that the baptism of the Spirit normally comes at the moment of faith.
He also confirms the understanding with the words of Christ.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
This agrees with Paul below.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Based on Romans 8:9, millions of those who have been water baptized died and went to hell, because they never came to faith and received the Spirit.
They were never "born again" of the Spirit of God, as found in John chapter 3.
However, I appreciate the challenge.
If what I say does not match up to scripture, it is wrong.
Moses also had the Spirit of God in him.
Isa_63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Jesus told Nicodemus that he was supposed to understand the above.
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How does that apply to infants? In what sense are they believers or partakers?God's children are born from God. God is their God. To God alone do they owe life. Regeneration is God's work, and it's God's work alone. By their receiving this testimony concerning Christ, this change has been wrought in the Christian. So, God has made them the divine natures' partakers. Faith is wrought by God through the Word. Thus the believers have life in them.
Don't you think it odd that the first scripture you kindly supplied had the word "water" in it?Based on the scripture found below, the most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
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The last verse you supplied says plainly that the baptism is FOR the forgiveness/remission of sins.We need to consider the context and all the words in Luke chapter one.
The verse you cited and the context below is taken from Zechariah’s Song. (prophecy)
I think the key thing here is the introduction of "the knowledge of salvation" (verse 77) and "a baptism of repentance" (Luke 3:3) See below.
This was a new concept for those under the sacrificial system. The sins could be forgiven as a result of personal repentance (turning away) from sins. The water baptism was indeed a ceremony and outward sign of the inner reality. Believe and be baptized.
Luke 1:76-79
And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79 to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan,
preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Do you really believe that?Without water baptism there is no forgiveness of sins.
What's the difference?The water baptism forgiveness of sins was for the temporal consequence of sin, not the eternal consequence. If it was eternal, then there would be no reason for Jesus to die on the cross.
This is a doctrine of the falsely repentant.Today if you sin, you will reap what you sow temporally 'here and now'. But the eternal consequence of that sin is still under the blood of Jesus. John's baptism was an imparted righteousness baptism and not the imputed righteousness which came from the death of Jesus. Jesus was baptized by John to "fulfill righteousness", and Jesus wasn't talking about his death on a cross when he made that statement.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:This was the scripture that provoked me to get baptized, and I thank God for it.
To me it was reality.The water was the symbolic ritual, the repentance was spiritual substance and reality of baptism.]
Sliding scale salvation?Your spirit is OSAS when it is born again....no partial rebirths. Either you are or you are not spirit saved. THEN you start working out the salvation of your soul, which is very tough to measure. That's what the judgment seat of Christ is for, where every work will be judged. Those works will be a reflection as to how saved it became. No one has a saved body that I see. All are stepping closer to the grave every day.
Your spirit is, or is not, justified/saved. Your soul is being sanctified/saved. And nobody has a g body that is glorified/saved.
Mark 1:5..."And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."Do you really believe that?
Where is the baptism in this verse?
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Don't you think it odd that the first scripture you kindly supplied had the word "water" in it?
Our baptism in water, for the remission of sins, (Acts 2:38), is done by man, but the baptism of the Holy Ghost is done by God...if we have turned from sin. (Acts 2:38)
Most of your posted scripture refer to the baptism of the Holy Spirit/Ghost.
Are you claiming to not know any Christians that have not been baptized?Mark 1:5..."And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."
Matt 3:6 says about the same thing.
Confess and be baptized, and as Rom 6:4 says..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
From that point we can walk in the light/God and be free from sin.
Thanks be to God.
You wrote this in reference to the baptized believers in Samaria.The above is the exception, rather than the rule.
I guess I don't believe in a "I repented the first time and I'm done." That 'first' repentance was for accepting the eternal forgiveness/consequences of your sins, paid for by Jesus, and not 'by me never sinning again'. All subsequent 'repentance' after initial salvation, is for the temporal consequence of sins we all still commit today. Personally, I can't even get most of the church to admit that it's possible to not sin. They all say; "Nobody was perfect but Jesus." "Nobody was sinless but Jesus." So are you saying I can add 'your name' to 'their list'....is that what I'm hearing you say?What's the difference?
If you have "ceased from sin" at your repentance, your sinlessness will be eternal...and there will be no more need for further baptisms or repentances.
And is all sounds like concepts which pertain to "YOU IN CHRIST" scriptures and not "CHRIST IN YOU" scriptures.That sounds "eternal" to me.
BTW, as per Romans 6:3-6, our water baptism also affords us entry into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Things not available to us without His death, burial, and resurrection.
I differ. I believe it is those who are 'falsely sin free'....like James exhorts.This is a doctrine of the falsely repentant.
It accommodates more and more sin.
As it was for me. But later I realized I only needed the 'water' for the first time repentance which was for eternal forgiveness from what Jesus did. From then on it was repentance from me for my issue of being 'eternally forgiven' but still being 'temporally weak' because my now holy Spirit of Christ is willing, but I still live in this sinful flesh body. The same kind of body Jesus spoke of at Gethsemane. Only difference is Jesus never sinned, but we did...and still do. Although I do believe perfection is attainable, unlike most of the church.To me it was reality.
My sins were washed away, and I was immersed into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection...raised with Him to walk in newness of life...literally.
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