Is baptism required for salvation?

[greatdivide46]

Oh, I don't know that I'd do that, because it's not our job to assign people to eternal happiness or estrangement from God. But if such a person were a close friend I don't see any reason to swear off asking if they ought not try to be more charitable to other people.



Works will be present. To some people that means that they contribute to salvation. Those are two different concepts.

We say that works will necessarily be in evidence, because faith by its nature will produce love. But that's not to say salvation is earned by those works. It's like radiation. You can't have an atomic bomb without any radiation but it's not radiation that goes "boom" and knocks down buildings.

OK, I got it! Works don't contribute to salvation, but if you don't have works you're probably not saved. Makes perfect sense. LOL

Please don't think I'm arguing for salvation by works. I don't believe that works save anyone. I guess what I'm doing is trying to point out the fallacy of the idea that we are saved by faith alone.

 

[Albion]

OK, I got it! Works don't contribute to salvation, but if you don't have works you're probably not saved. Makes perfect sense. LOL

Why would that be cause for a snippy brush-off like that one? And no, I don't think that "saved by faith in Christ" is a proposition that's laughable on its face.

Please don't think I'm arguing for salvation by works. I don't believe that works save anyone. I guess what I'm doing is trying to point out the fallacy of the idea that we are saved by faith alone.

Then go ahead. "LOL" doesn't really point out anything meaningful to me.

 

[stan1953]

This is off topic, but just out of curiousity, what version of the Bible do you use? The reason I ask is because the ESV that I use says, in Hebrews 6:1 to "go on to maturity." Seems to me there's a huge difference between "go on to maturity" and "be taken forward to maturity." I can't imagine, as precise as the Greek language is, that there is a word or phrase in Greek that could be taken either way.

As for whether or not faith in James has anything to do with salvation, I'll concede that point to you.

I use the NIV 2011 normally, sometimes the NASB or the HCSB. Every once in a long while, I like the way the KJV states it, probably because I memorized a lot of verses in the KJV when I was newly saved.

I wouldn't be too concerned about their use of the word taken. I'm sure the Holy Spirit had a lot to do with taking Paul forward to maturity as well.

 

[stan1953]

OK, I got it! Works don't contribute to salvation, but if you don't have works you're probably not saved. Makes perfect sense. LOL

Please don't think I'm arguing for salvation by works. I don't believe that works save anyone. I guess what I'm doing is trying to point out the fallacy of the idea that we are saved by faith alone.

You know GD, we are treating your questions seriously. If you're just looking for a way to ridicule us then we may as well stop responding to your questions.
This response to Albion was totally uncalled for.

 

[greatdivide46]

Hey, guys, sorry my "LOL" offended you. I can assure you that it was completely unintentional. I was just trying to add a little lightheartedness to a serious discussion. Apparently there's no room for levity in a discussion such as this so I will try to refrain from doing that in the future.

 

[stan1953]

Hey, guys, sorry my "LOL" offended you. I can assure you that it was completely unintentional. I was just trying to add a little lightheartedness to a serious discussion. Apparently there's no room for levity in a discussion such as this so I will try to refrain from doing that in the future.

Levity is fine...timing was just bad.

 

[Partiasn]

Baptism is a Jewish Ceremony performed in the Temple as a Dedication and Cleansing of ones soul.

It was called Mitzavote, in Hebrew. [phonetic Spelling there]

Christians adopted it as a sign of salvation and dedication to God.
IE a Baptism.

The symbolism here is one goes in the water impure and comes out cleansed, to God.
IE they are Born Again.

 

[greatdivide46]

Baptism is a Jewish Ceremony performed in the Temple as a Dedication and Cleansing of ones soul.

It was called Mitzavote, in Hebrew. [phonetic Spelling there]

Christians adopted it as a sign of salvation and dedication to God.
IE a Baptism.

The symbolism here is one goes in the water impure and comes out cleansed, to God.
IE they are Born Again.

I disagree that Christians adopted baptism from the Jewish faith as a sign of salvation. Baptism is a uniquely Christian act. Of course, other religions may have similar acts and call them baptism, but nothin is exactly like Christian baptism.

And while baptism is a symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ it is also in reality the time when God chooses to bestow salvation on those who decide to have faith in Him.

 

[Partiasn]

I disagree that Christians adopted baptism from the Jewish faith as a sign of salvation. Baptism is a uniquely Christian act. Of course, other religions may have similar acts and call them baptism, but nothin is exactly like Christian baptism.

And while baptism is a symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ it is also in reality the time when God chooses to bestow salvation on those who decide to have faith in Him.

Ok they are not exactly the same from a ideological standpoint. But my point here was that the practice predates Christianity. As far as needing to preform the ceremony to obtain salvation, I don’t think that is true. On the other hand yes I will agree that baptism is the time that most people accept Christ. But the two are coincidental not a necessary occurrence.

 

[Norah63]

Partiasn, thanks for that little history lesson. I for one never knew that. It does make sense . And so many christians are now getting involved in some, if not all, of the Jewish holidays.
Almost making it manditiory for being in their group.

 

[Albion]

Partiasn, thanks for that little history lesson. I for one never knew that. It does make sense . And so many christians are now getting involved in some, if not all, of the Jewish holidays.
Almost making it manditiory for being in their group.

Don't go overboard with that. John's baptism was a parallel to the ritual washings of Jewish converts, but the New Testament records Jesus himself instructing his followers to go and baptise...

And this is a baptism that has a new and more important meaning than the Jewish baptisms or John's baptism.

 

[stelow]

Salvation is required for baptism.

Acts 10:44-48

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

 

[greatdivide46]

Salvation is required for baptism.

Acts 10:44-48

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

You are making the assumption here that anyone who speaks in tongues is necessarily saved. That's not a good assumption in this case.

 

[mathetes123]

I was baptized as a baby, but not since then.

Do I need to be baptized in order to be saved, or was I covered back then. OR is baptism not required for salvation?

I've heard people say that the Bible clearly, unarguably states that baptism is a definitely requirement for salvation. I'm just not sure what to believe - that doesn't seem right, but I don't trust my own thoughts, so I can't exactly go by that.

Anyway, please help! Please let me know if I need to be baptized soon -

PS: I am not a member of any church (although I do attend one), so can I even have it done?

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

 

[mathetes123]

You're covered, if you were baptized as an infant you're fine.

Baptism does not have the power to save. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.

 

[Albion]

Baptism does not have the power to save. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.

So if a child dies of crib death, for example, what becomes of him?

 

[stelow]

Salvation is required for baptism.

Acts 10:44-48

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

You are making the assumption here that anyone who speaks in tongues is necessarily saved. That's not a good assumption in this case.

I read they also were praising God, and if anyone is making the assumption it would be Peter, not me. He states they have received the Holy Spirit just as we have; doesn't take much of a stretch for me to believe Peter.

 

[greatdivide46]

I read they also were praising God, and if anyone is making the assumption it would be Peter, not me. He states they have received the Holy Spirit just as we have; doesn't take much of a stretch for me to believe Peter.

I believe Peter too. What Peter's saying is they spoke in tongues just like the apostles did. He is not saying that they received the indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit. They received the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit. That's not what saved them, though.

 

[mathetes123]

So if a child dies of crib death, for example, what becomes of him?

If a child dies before the age of accountability they are saved.

 

[Albion]

If a child dies before the age of accountability they are saved.

Fair enough. So faith isn't essential until one is old enough to make a decision for Christ? Then the person has to have it. Am I understanding you correctly?