Is baptism necessary to be saved?

its-me-again-777 said:

Jesus's words are infallable He is God.

Peters are not.

No where does it say that what peter said that day is infallable.

Click to expand...

I believe that the Scriptures teach that what Peter said, as recorded in Acts are infallible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 ASV

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (17) That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

Is the letter of Acts Scripture that is inspired of God? I believe so. If this is true, then what we have recorded of Peter's sermon is authoritative because it's inspired of God - not simply because Peter said it.

Notice what this says about these Scriptures: they are proftiable for teaching, reproof, correction, and instruction which is in righteousness.

What does Acts say baptism is for again? The remission of sins. This is what the Scriptures inspired of God say it's for, that means that God says that's what it's for.

its-me-again-777 said:

tutus 3:5

Click to expand...

I believe that Titus 3:5 harmonizes perfectly with what we have Jesus teaching in John 3:3,5.

Jesus tells us that we must be born again. He then defines for us what He meant by that new birth. We must be born of water and the Spirit.

John 3:3 ==> Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 ==> Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Let's look at what Titus 3:5 says now:

Titus 3:5 ASV

not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

So now, let's compare these two verse and see how Titus 3:5 harmonizes perfectly with what Jesus has said in John 3 and as well as what Peter said in Acts 2:38.

"...through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit"

"...born of water and the Spirit..."

water = washing of regeneration = baptism for remission of sins = Acts 2:38
Spirit = renewing of Holy Ghost

I find that it's very interesting how everything comes together and makes perfect sense when you consider the SUM of God's word.

its-me-again-777 said:

YOU BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE FLAT OUT DEAD WRONG!!!


No offense but I fear for your salvation. I having exierenced the Power of salvation in the depths of my soul without water.

I seriously wonder how anyone knowing the salvation of God could possobly mistake water baptism for salvation. Or even say that you must be water baptised to be saved. It just is not so. You are holding to some words and going thru some actions and wham your saying " I am saved because I did this action as given in the scripture" (works).

Peter said that there are those that use the scripture for there own destruction.

" they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2nd peter 3:16

I hope and pray this is not you.

Please please please please make sure in the depths of your soul not that I did this therefore I am saved but know that Christ is in you.

2nd corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

The Bible is clear on salvtion romans 10:8-10

"[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Notice with heart mans believes, then with with the mouth he confesses, then salvation.

Peace I am out.

Click to expand...

Praise the Lord!

This is the gospel I have learn , preach , and teach.

I think this is also the reason Paul said he didn`t come to baptized but to bring the message of Christ death and resurrection, not baptismo.

God Bless you

evangelist said:

Praise the Lord!

This is the gospel I have learn , preach , and teach.

I think this is also the reason Paul said he didn`t come to baptized but to bring the message of Christ death and resurrection, not baptismo.

God Bless you

Click to expand...

I think this is also the reason Paul said he didn`t come to baptized but to bring the message of Christ death and resurrection, not baptismo.

Click to expand...

I would like to know who claimed Baptism was the Gospel

Baptism is a response to the Gospel. Repentance is a Response to the Gospel. Confession of sin is a Response to the Gospel.

I am not throwing those things out, I am just Saying that Baptism deserves to be right next to them.

Baptism without faith is nothing. Baptism without Repentence is nothing. I know that.

But to claim you have faith, and to ignore a clear Commandment of Christ, is wrong, and not truly faith.

Colabomb

Of course, I believe that belief and Confession of Christ as Lord is necessary.

In fact, without belief in the Saving Act of Christ, Baptism is worthless.

Click to expand...

You admitt it is necessary but your belief is an added ritual baptism must take place the outward tradition to be saved.
I preach teach, that a person is saved when they believe, repent,and is born again with a new heart by confession with the heart, they at that point are instantly saved on the spot.

yes baptism is worthless when a person is not saved, but the reason is that the saved person can get a full reward through the command of baptism, just like I know there is a reward for serving others, and helping the poor the widows, the sick, and going to church , and having fellowship with other christian, also reading and studying the bible , or giving tithes is commandments we should do and want to do after we are saved in our christian walk.

You are trying to mix things in our Christian walk with the good new of being saved , and born again and that is your error of the Gospel of Christ.

I can say the same thing and make up a doctrine to be saved and have salvation and get scriptures to prove my point with the tithes,I can say if you don`t pay your tithes you are stealing from God and theives don`t go to heaven and disobedient Christian can`t be saved for real because they haven`t fullfiled the commandments and obey the Lord.
But I am in error in saying this and mixing tithes with the salvation message just like you are in complete error with trying to use water baptism with the salvation message.
Yes . we all should be baptized sometime in our walk and growth in Christ.
I think also real born again Christian should pray, and worship , and read the bible but is that the salvation message to eternal life???


God Bless

Colabomb said:

I would like to know who claimed Baptism was the Gospel

Click to expand...

Isn`t that what you are trying to create???

BTW, what saves us quicker the born again repentance and blood of Jesus or water baptism???

Let say I did what is said in Roman 10;9.10 but I am not baptized , but I heard of baptism and I am thinking that one day I will go and get baptized, but before I get a chance to make up my mind and obey I die and never got a chance to get baptized will that person spend eternalty life in hell because they didn`t do the ritual of baptism????


God Bless

evangelist said:

Colabomb


You admitt it is necessary but your belief is an added ritual baptism must take place the outward tradition to be saved.
I preach teach, that a person is saved when they believe, repent,and is born again with a new heart by confession with the heart, they at that point are instantly saved on the spot.

yes baptism is worthless when a person is not saved, but the reason is that the saved person can get a full reward through the command of baptism, just like I know there is a reward for serving others, and helping the poor the widows, the sick, and going to church , and having fellowship with other christian, also reading and studying the bible , or giving tithes is commandments we should do and want to do after we are saved in our christian walk.

You are trying to mix things in our Christian walk with the good new of being saved , and born again and that is your error of the Gospel of Christ.

I can say the same thing and make up a doctrine to be saved and have salvation and get scriptures to prove my point with the tithes,I can say if you don`t pay your tithes you are stealing from God and theives don`t go to heaven and disobedient Christian can`t be saved for real because they haven`t fullfiled the commandments and obey the Lord.
But I am in error in saying this and mixing tithes with the salvation message just like you are in complete error with trying to use water baptism with the salvation message.
Yes . we all should be baptized sometime in our walk and growth in Christ.
I think also real born again Christian should pray, and worship , and read the bible but is that the salvation message to eternal life???


God Bless

Click to expand...

You are trying to mix things in our Christian walk with the good new of being saved , and born again and that is your error of the Gospel of Christ.

Click to expand...

No, I have mixed nothing in. I am simply proclaiming what is in Scripture, and has been taught in the Christian Church since Pentecost.

I can say the same thing and make up a doctrine to be saved and have salvation and get scriptures to prove my point with the tithes,I can say if you don`t pay your tithes you are stealing from God and theives don`t go to heaven and disobedient Christian can`t be saved for real because they haven`t fullfiled the commandments and obey the Lord.

Click to expand...

I have not made up a doctrine, again I am asserting that this is what has been taught since the beginning. This is the Truth the Scriptures and the Church has taught since the beginning.

The ones who have "made up" a doctrine are those who remove Baptism from its rightful role.

Yes . we all should be baptized sometime in our walk and growth in Christ.
I think also real born again Christian should pray, and worship , and read the bible but is that the salvation message to eternal life???

Click to expand...

Did Christ say "He who believes and prays and worships and reads the Bible will be Saved, and he who disbelieves will be ******".

Do the Scriptures say anywhere that those things are necessary for Salvation? No, they don't.

But is Baptism claimed as necessary? Absolutely.

Acts 2:38 says to repent and be Baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS.

The Scriptures are clear.

evangelist said:

Isn`t that what you are trying to create???

BTW, what saves us quicker the born again repentance and blood of Jesus or water baptism???

Let say I did what is said in Roman 10;9.10 but I am not baptized , but I heard of baptism and I am thinking that one day I will go and get baptized, but before I get a chance to make up my mind and obey I die and never got a chance to get baptized will that person spend eternalty life in hell because they didn`t do the ritual of baptism????


God Bless

Click to expand...

The Gospel is the Message of Christ

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[1] : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[2] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Click to expand...

Repentance, confession of sin, Baptism etc. are ways that we are commandded to Respond to that Gospel.

Let say I did what is said in Roman 10;9.10 but I am not baptized , but I heard of baptism and I am thinking that one day I will go and get baptized, but before I get a chance to make up my mind and obey I die and never got a chance to get baptized will that person spend eternalty life in hell because they didn`t do the ritual of baptism????

Click to expand...

Before I cananswer, I need to make it clear that only God knows for sure who is and is not Saved. Remember the Grace of our God.

But, I need toask you a question first.

Did that person never get the chance to get Baptized? Or did he just decide not to do it?

Also, let me ask you this.

If "the sinners prayer" is all that is necessary, and some man heard of it, but decided to do it later, and he dies, does he go to heaven?

Baptism is an outward symbol of an inner grace. Water baptism is not needed for a person to be saved.

~cleopa

cleopa_of_emmaus said:

Baptism is an outward symbol of an inner grace. Water baptism is not needed for a person to be saved.

~cleopa

Click to expand...

I assume that you are talking about Baptism of Desire?

If not, the Roman Catholic Church disagrees with you.

sorry if i'm disturbing the conversation, but i just wanna write down what i think on the subject.

Firstly, i think you do not have to be baptized to be saved.
My reason for that is, is that i have not yet been baptized with the Spirit or with water, but i still have the Spirit with me.
You see, to be baptized means being born again, right? Well, you can only be born again through the Spirit, so i think that the only way to be baptized is by your faith... so spiritually, and not with water. `

When you start to believe and when you become a Christian, you have to learn before you can recieve the Spirit and be born again.

The Spirit is with you, like with every believer, but i believe that your faith and annointing is strengthend when you are baptized.
It is NOT necessary.
Your faith on its own is a ticket to Heaven. The Spirit only helps you on your spiritual path.
I myself am working to get the Spirit. I am teaching myself to listen and follow the Spirit, instead of following my own mind. I know that i am not ready to be baptized yet, because i have not learnt enough yet. (the Holy Spirit confirmed that)

Well anyway, these are just my thoughts

Colabomb said:

No, I have mixed nothing in. I am simply proclaiming what is in Scripture, and has been taught in the Christian Church since Pentecost.





I have not made up a doctrine, again I am asserting that this is what has been taught since the beginning. This is the Truth the Scriptures and the Church has taught since the beginning.

The ones who have "made up" a doctrine are those who remove Baptism from its rightful role.


Did Christ say "He who believes and prays and worships and reads the Bible will be Saved, and he who disbelieves will be ******".

Do the Scriptures say anywhere that those things are necessary for Salvation? No, they don't.

But is Baptism claimed as necessary? Absolutely.

Acts 2:38 says to repent and be Baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS.

The Scriptures are clear.

Click to expand...

I can use the same words as you to get the bible to agree with an error of understanding the bible.

i see you have done this already by adding words in everyone of your scriptures.

Mark 16:16 where does it say the word necessary to be saved by baptism???

Acts 2:38, you say the water is not magic , but is the Blood of Jesus magic??

Ain`t we baptized spiritually in the blood of Jesus ???

BTW , we have not removed baptism , we just know from experience , and teachings that believing repenting, and a new heart which is recieved by being born again spiritually works even before any water baptism.

Have you heard of a church called the Church of Christ, they are very famous in my Home town Boston, we have a couple of them whioch I was even baptized one time by them and they have this added doctrine in their church.


God Bless

Colabomb said:

The Gospel is the Message of Christ



Repentance, confession of sin, Baptism etc. are ways that we are commandded to Respond to that Gospel.



Before I cananswer, I need to make it clear that only God knows for sure who is and is not Saved. Remember the Grace of our God.

But, I need toask you a question first.

Did that person never get the chance to get Baptized? Or did he just decide not to do it?

Also, let me ask you this.

If "the sinners prayer" is all that is necessary, and some man heard of it, but decided to do it later, and he dies, does he go to heaven?

Click to expand...

really the person is thinking about should he do it or not get baptized.

no, because the bible say now is the time of salvation.

But the believing and trusting , and repentance tools to make all this work is with us, but to get into water might be very far, for instance if you are in the desert with no water but you get saved, and there was maybe a tub of water but either you can get baptized in it our drink from it I think if everybody drink from the water is better than a baptism, and still a person is saved and born again in their heart.

I also think a person who doesn`t pay tithes will go to heaven.

Even in Mark 16:16 if you will notice it proves that those who don`t believe is damed not a person who is not baptized.

God Bless

the_smell

I know that i am not ready to be baptized yet, because i have not learnt enough yet.

Click to expand...

That is ok, and you are going through your christian walk, but please i advice you please do yourself a favor and get water baptized just to be a real born again follower of Christ and get your full reward , and God will say to you well done my faithful son.


God Bless my saved sister

its-me-again-777 said:

YOU BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE FLAT OUT DEAD WRONG!!!

Click to expand...

Excellent use of persuasive, logical argumentation there (j/k). Of course, your simply saying that someone is wrong doesn't prove it, and shouting not only makes me think that you can't find answers to solidly support what you believe, but it also isn't very nice.

No offense but I fear for your salvation.

Click to expand...

I'm glad for your concern, thank you . I pray that you will also be glad to know that the feelings are mutual. This mutual concern, I pray, will lead us to study together the word of God more closely, to learn what the SUM of God's word teaches, and then for us to be obedient to it.

I having exierenced the Power of salvation in the depths of my soul without water.

Click to expand...

Please understand that I don't doubt your sincerity. That sincerity, however, does not make you right. I have a friend whom I work with that is a Hindu. Do you think that he can be saved without being obedient to what the word of God teaches? Even if he's sincere? Likewise, our sincerity does not save us. If we are sincerely wrong, we are still wrong. Paul was sincerely wrong - but was he saved while he was sincerely persecuting Christ?

I seriously wonder how anyone knowing the salvation of God could possobly mistake water baptism for salvation.

Click to expand...

This is probably one of the greatest reasons why we aren't seeing eye to eye. Nowhere do the Scriptures say that we are saved simply because we are baptized. If this were true, I would forcibly baptize every single person that I ever met. We are not saved because we are baptized, we are saved by the grace of God when we have met all of the conditions that GOD has placed on the receiving of His grace.

Or even say that you must be water baptised to be saved.

Click to expand...

Oh, by no means do I expect you to take my word for anything. But it's hard to get around the topic when it was Jesus who commanded it. Read Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16. Jesus lays out very clearly that we must be baptized.

It just is not so.

Click to expand...

It is so, and God is the One who has said thus.

You are holding to some words and going thru some actions and wham your saying " I am saved because I did this action as given in the scripture" (works).

Click to expand...

No. I am saying that no matter what I do I will never be worthy of being saved. No matter how many times I pray, no matter how much money I give, no matter how perfectly I live the rest of my life - I will never be able to attain the perfection that the holiness and righteousness of God demands. What I am saying, however, is that God in His infinite mercy has offered to us a plan for redemption wherein we may be saved by His grace if we submit to the conditions that He has outlined. Make no mistake, we are saved by God's grace, and His grace alone.

Peter said that there are those that use the scripture for there own destruction.

Click to expand...

Yes. There are those who will twist or leave out all together the clear teachings of the Scriptures - like baptism. Please, go read Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38 for starters...don't leave those out.

Please please please please make sure in the depths of your soul not that I did this therefore I am saved but know that Christ is in you.

Click to expand...

Read Luke 17:10. By doing what we are commanded we are in no wise making ourselves righteous, we are merely humbly submitting to the word of God in obedience.

The Bible is clear on salvtion romans 10:8-10
Notice with heart mans believes, then with with the mouth he confesses, then salvation.

Click to expand...

So I don't have to repent??? Read through what you've quoted one more time - notice that repentance is listed nowhere in that passage. But Jesus tells us in Luke 13:3,5 that if we don't repent we will perish...obviously we can't go by this passage you've quoted alone - this is because only the SUM of God's word is Truth. When we consider the SUM of God's word, it becomes very evident that baptism for the remission of sins is necessary.

Peace I am out.

Click to expand...

I look forward to hearing back from you

Hi The_Smell

I'm glad that you've decided to join our conversation I look forward to talking with you about the word of God.

The_Smell said:

Your faith on its own is a ticket to Heaven.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that the Scriptures teach what you are saying here. If faith were the only thing that was necessary, then we wouldn't be commanded to repent by Jesus. Also, if all that we had to do was believe, then the demons would be saved (James 2:19).

I myself am working to get the Spirit. I am teaching myself to listen and follow the Spirit, instead of following my own mind.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by all of these things you've said? Will you explain what you're saying for me please? I'd appreciate it

I know that i am not ready to be baptized yet, because i have not learnt enough yet.

Click to expand...

The only things you need to know in order to be baptized is that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. You need to believe this and that He was crucified and raised again on the third day. He appeared to many, giving many proofs of His ressurection and later ascended into heaven. You also need to know that you have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and the wages of your sins are death. This is what you deserve. However, God in His mercy has provided a way for your sins to be forgiven - through the death of His Son. When you are baptized you are buried with Christ, and then are raised again to walk in a newness of life through the working of God. This is what Jesus was talking about in John 3:3-5. You can be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins. If you know these things, and believe them, then you can be baptized and added to the body of Christ.

If you have any questions about this, I'll be more than happy to talk with you about them. Hope to hear from you soon, The_Smell.

aggie03 said:

Hi The_Smell


I don't believe that the Scriptures teach what you are saying here. If faith were the only thing that was necessary, then we wouldn't be commanded to repent by Jesus. Also, if all that we had to do was believe, then the demons would be saved (James 2:19).
.

Click to expand...

1ST Was salvation offered to Satan and his demons????
Do I need to answer this?

2nd
according to Eph 2:8 its grace through Faith nothing else
and 2tim 1:9 according to God's own purpose and grace

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:

1ST Was salvation offered to Satan and his demons????

Click to expand...

Is that the point you think James is trying to make, a brethren? Really? Was the belief of satan enough to keep him from falling? Our salvation takes more than just our believing.

according to Eph 2:8 its grace through Faith nothing else
and 2tim 1:9 according to God's own purpose and grace

Click to expand...

So you don't have to repent? What did Jesus say in Luke 13:3,5? Obviously Ephesians 2 doesn't contain everything...we have to consider the SUM of God's word.

Hello I would like to share something in the discussion of baptism is it or is not necassary for salvation.

This is new for me so I hope I am using this right :o)