Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Jephthah · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
I believe when someone repents believeing the Gospel. God washes away there sin thru jesus's blood and the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at that time.

I was asking for a place in the Scriptures where you have an example, explicitly stated of this baptism you're talking about occurring.

I'll deal with you're little rhyme later...let's focus on this first.

Jephthah · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
The book of acts is histotical not authoritative like the epistles.

Show me where this is stated in the Bible => specifically that Acts has no authority...

"[17] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.'

If you'll notice though he did baptize some people . Paul's primary job wasn't to baptize, but to preach. Not everyone had his knowledge, but anyone can dunk someone else under water. It makes sense

evangelist · Jan 16, 2004

Jephthah said:
The baptism that Christ commands in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19 is different then John's. John's was for repentance. That one Christ commanded is for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). We are never commanded, as Christians, to take part in John's baptism.

Then what part is played repentance or what does repentance do??

What does the blood of Jesus do for us???

What does Believing do for us today?

last but least what does getting wet do for us???

Let me compare your answers with these questions.

God Bless

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
I believe when someone repents believeing the Gospel. God washes away there sin thru jesus's blood and the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens at that time.

Basicially bornagain of the Spirit, regeneration of the Holy Spirit, and Spiritual baptism all happen at the time of salvation.

Water Baptism saves no one. In a dry sinner on your way tp hell. Out a wet sinner on your way to hell.

And of course you can prove this with Scripture, not just your own opinons? No offense intended, but your opinion carries no weight compared to the Scriptures and the Teaching of the Church for the last 2000 years.

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

evangelist said:
Then what part is played repentance or what does repentance do??

What does the blood of Jesus do for us???

What does Believing do for us today?

last but least what does getting wet do for us???

Let me compare your answers with these questions.

God Bless

We don't believe in magic water. I hate when people make a big deal out of the fact that "we get wet".

Baptism is an act of faith.

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
The book of acts is histotical not authoritative like the epistles.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

OH? So now Scripture is not trustworthy for doctrine?

The Gospels were also Historical (most of them), should we not trust Jesus when He tells us to believe?

evangelist · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb said:
We don't believe in magic water. I hate when people make a big deal out of the fact that "we get wet".

Baptism is an act of faith.

Is that your answers to my questions???

Don`t you like suba diving?

Just joking, but I would like to have some real answers.

God Bless

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

evangelist said:
Is that your answers to my questions???

Don`t you like suba diving?

Just joking, but I would like to have some real answers.

God Bless

your questions were unfair.

You did not ask "What does Baptism do" you asked "What does getting wet do"

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Jephthah said:
I was asking for a place in the Scriptures where you have an example, explicitly stated of this baptism you're talking about occurring.

I'll deal with you're little rhyme later...let's focus on this first.

tutus 3:5

"[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

He saved us how "by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost"

ephesians 1

"[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Notice you believe. then your sealed by the Spirit.

Romans 6 talks about and colasians 2 also talk about being bauried with him and risen to walk in newness of life. Notice the rising is not the operatiion of the preacher in the water but the operation of God.

col 2:12 "[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb said:
OH? So now Scripture is not trustworthy for doctrine?

The Gospels were also Historical (most of them), should we not trust Jesus when He tells us to believe?

Jesus's words are infallable He is God.

Peters are not.

No where does it say that what peter said that day is infallable.

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb said:
And of course you can prove this with Scripture, not just your own opinons? No offense intended, but your opinion carries no weight compared to the Scriptures and the Teaching of the Church for the last 2000 years.

I think think I showed some verses 2 post ago about the Spirits inportance in salvation.

As far as the church.

I have the Holy Spirit and the word what the so called church has believed is of no significants to me.

My view on the matter however is widely accepted in my particular denomination.

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Just so no one thinks I am coming out of left field here let me show you what I mean.

mathew 16

21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Now do we take what Peter said literally as inspired authoritative?

then if that is true jesus never died.

mathew is a historical book in the Bible.

We weigh what Peter said with scripture. then we take it for what it was. WHAT PETER SAID.

1st timothy 1

"These things teach and exhort.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Here we are told to teach and exhort what was written in his book.

and that is how you look at the Epistles.

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
Just so no one thinks I am coming out of left field here let me show you what I mean.

mathew 16

21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Now do we take what Peter said literally as inspired authoritative?

then if that is true jesus never died.

mathew is a historical book in the Bible.

We weigh what Peter said with scripture. then we take it for what it was. WHAT PETER SAID.

1st timothy 1

"These things teach and exhort.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Here we are told to teach and exhort what was written in his book.

and that is how you look at the Epistles.

I find your tearing apart of Scripture said, but if the only words of Scripture you trust are those of Christ, than read Matt 16:16.

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
Just so no one thinks I am coming out of left field here let me show you what I mean.

mathew 16

21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Now do we take what Peter said literally as inspired authoritative?

then if that is true jesus never died.

mathew is a historical book in the Bible.

We weigh what Peter said with scripture. then we take it for what it was. WHAT PETER SAID.

1st timothy 1

"These things teach and exhort.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Here we are told to teach and exhort what was written in his book.

and that is how you look at the Epistles.

Also, I would like to point out that Peter was obviously failing in this, and he was shown as being repentant.

Not so with Acts 2:38.

Peter was preaching Doctrine. Peter was showing these people Salvation.

Also, Peter was never rebuked for these words, nor is it indicated that he was wrong in speaking them.

Instead, throughout the book of Acts, converts were Baptized immediately.

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb

If I were to be at home hear the gospel (Christ death burial resserction for our salvation) Repent believe it and call on Jesus.

Then have God regenerate me by the Holy Spirit. His spirit witnessing with my spirit that I am his son.

Rightous Holiness and a proclamation of the Gospel becomes a part of my new existance.

I am by the Spirit a new creature in Christ. I am quickend by God where as I was dead before.

I know that I know that I know that Christ is in me.

But yet I never enterd water for baptism.

would I be saved?

its-me-again-777 · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb said:
I find your tearing apart of Scripture said, but if the only words of Scripture you trust are those of Christ, than read Matt 16:16.

Do you mean sad?

mathew 16:16

"16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

I do not get your point.

And I do not tear up scripture. I believe it all. I am not sure why you would say I do that?

Just because I think the book of acts is historical not authoritative?

That view falls way with in the pale of orhodox christianity. It is not cultic or nothing.

I am emphesising the work of the Holy Spirit out side of water baptism. that is scriptual.

And If you get water baptised without ever having recieved the Holy Spirit, or have been regenerated, bornagain, and baptised of the Holy Spirit your water baptism is vain.

Romans 8:9 "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.'

evangelist · Jan 16, 2004

Colabomb said:
your questions were unfair.

You did not ask "What does Baptism do" you asked "What does getting wet do"

Should I only ask question the way you want ?

Colabomb · Jan 16, 2004

evangelist said:
Should I only ask question the way you want ?

What does vocally or internally quoting a prayer printed in a tract do?

The way people ask things does make a difference.

"What does Baptism do?" is a legitamate question deserving of an answer.

"What does getting wet do" is a tricky way of wording the question to assert your point.

We don't believe that Getting wet Saves us. We believe that submitting to the Baptism is an act of Faith in Christ.

We don't believe that there is magic in the water, nor do we believe that Baptism of itself Saves.

We believe that Submission to Baptism is required of Christ for Salvation.

its-me-again-777 · Jan 17, 2004

Colabomb said:
We believe that Submission to Baptism is required of Christ for Salvation.

YOU BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE FLAT OUT DEAD WRONG!!!

No offense but I fear for your salvation. I having exierenced the Power of salvation in the depths of my soul without water.

I seriously wonder how anyone knowing the salvation of God could possobly mistake water baptism for salvation. Or even say that you must be water baptised to be saved. It just is not so. You are holding to some words and going thru some actions and wham your saying " I am saved because I did this action as given in the scripture" (works).

Peter said that there are those that use the scripture for there own destruction.

" they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2nd peter 3:16

I hope and pray this is not you.

Please please please please make sure in the depths of your soul not that I did this therefore I am saved but know that Christ is in you.

2nd corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

The Bible is clear on salvtion romans 10:8-10

"[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice with heart mans believes, then with with the mouth he confesses, then salvation.

Peace I am out.

Colabomb · Jan 17, 2004

its-me-again-777 said:
YOU BELIEVE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE FLAT OUT DEAD WRONG!!!

No offense but I fear for your salvation. I having exierenced the Power of salvation in the depths of my soul without water.

I seriously wonder how anyone knowing the salvation of God could possobly mistake water baptism for salvation. Or even say that you must be water baptised to be saved. It just is not so. You are holding to some words and going thru some actions and wham your saying " I am saved because I did this action as given in the scripture" (works).

Peter said that there are those that use the scripture for there own destruction.

" they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2nd peter 3:16

I hope and pray this is not you.

Please please please please make sure in the depths of your soul not that I did this therefore I am saved but know that Christ is in you.

2nd corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

The Bible is clear on salvtion romans 10:8-10

"[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice with heart mans believes, then with with the mouth he confesses, then salvation.

Peace I am out.

I seriously wonder how anyone knowing the salvation of God could possobly mistake water baptism for salvation.

Again an assertion that has no basis. We are not Saved because of "magic waters" but because of the Sacrifice of Christ. Baptism is simply part of the manner in which we Recieve the Benefits of that Wonderous act of Grace.

Or even say that you must be water baptised to be saved. It just is not so.

According to you. I have Scripture and 2000 years of Church History on my side.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ******.

The words of Christ are clear.

BTW, if the word D-am-ned does not show up on your screen, my computer has a filter on it.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The words of Christ's Apostle are clear as well.

Also, A point I would like to make, because you claim those are just "Peter's words". Remember that Peter walked with Jesus, and followed Jesus, and learned from Jesus for three years Previous. Don't you think he would have known what Jesus wanted?

Please please please please make sure in the depths of your soul not that I did this therefore I am saved but know that Christ is in you.

The God of the Heavens dwells in every believer HalleluJah!

My Salvation is dependant on the Sacrifice of Christ. I don't believe in the "Salvation of my own merit" that you are implying. I could never Save myself.

The Bible is clear on salvtion romans 10:8-10

"[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice with heart mans believes, then with with the mouth he confesses, then salvation.

Of course, I believe that belief and Confession of Christ as Lord is necessary.

In fact, without belief in the Saving Act of Christ, Baptism is worthless.

But if you hang all that is required for Salvation on this verse, than you don't believe that Loving God is necessary, you don't believe that confession of sin is necessary, you don't believe that Repentence of sin is necessary etc.

Remember, the Bible is not a book of one-liners, the Bible should be studied as a whole.

Have you been Baptized?

May God Bless you Richly in Christ's Peace, Love, Grace and Salvation!

Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Jephthah

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