Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[BroGinder]

Acts 10:34
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
KJV

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
KJV

Col 2:12
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
KJV

Gal 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

Matt 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
KJV

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
KJV

Mark 6:12
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
KJV

Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
KJV

The scriptures above will be in agreement with what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that salvation should be in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection. The message Peter preached in Acts 2:38 says to REPENT – to have the old man die. We must repent, and this is the DEATH. And be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS. When a man is dead we bury him. The Bible says we are buried with Christ in baptism, and this is the BURIAL. And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says we can take part in the resurrection of Christ if we have His Spirit. This is the RESURRECTION. So if you follow Peter’s answer, you will Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then you will have obeyed Jesus and taken part in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ! This is the plan of salvation!

Does this clarify it any better for you as to what I am saying? Sometimes when we we start quoting and bouncing from post to post soemthing gets lost along the way. I ant to make sure I am clear on what I am saying the plan is, and where I draw it from.

God Bless

 

[KCDAD]

The scriptures above will be in agreement with what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that salvation should be in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection. The message Peter preached in Acts 2:38 says to REPENT – to have the old man die. We must repent, and this is the DEATH. And be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS. When a man is dead we bury him. The Bible says we are buried with Christ in baptism, and this is the BURIAL. And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says we can take part in the resurrection of Christ if we have His Spirit. This is the RESURRECTION. So if you follow Peter’s answer, you will Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then you will have obeyed Jesus and taken part in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ! This is the plan of salvation!

Does this clarify it any better for you as to what I am saying? Sometimes when we we start quoting and bouncing from post to post soemthing gets lost along the way. I ant to make sure I am clear on what I am saying the plan is, and where I draw it from.

God Bless

How come you can tell "let the old man die" is a metaphor, but can't figure out the rest of the metaphors?
Do you know what "baptized in Jesus' name" means? HINT: It does not mean to say Jesus name while dunking someone in a tub.

Buried with Christ? Do you know what that means?

What is the gift that the Holy Spirit gives us?

You write a lot of words without a lot of meaning.

 

[BroGinder]

How many have you won to Christ with your Loving tone and responses? Just curious.

Seek Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly

Interesting enough, that the water is done over and over. The act, the actual baptism was done. We still have water in today society and are therefore able to still "Bury" in Jesus name. Its the "Burrying" that is symbolized there since we can not physically kill one another to "Die" for him.

It DOES mean, as you put it, "Dunk" them in the water while calling on the name of Jesus. If not Please show me scripture to support your stand as to why this is nto the case.

The Holy Ghost is a Gift, and with it comes power. Power to do what you ask. Power to be the extension of Jesus' ministry. Since we are the body and he is the head.

Power to heal, preach, teach, encourage, cast out demons all in the name of Jesus. Not I but Christ who lives with in me. For his glory, honor, and praise.

You respond to people in such as fashion that is it cold, and unloving. that is not God's plan for us to treat one another. In fact the Word of GOd says we are to Love our neighbor as ourselves.

To say my words have no meaning, while I was offering scripture to support my stance and you offered just an opinion with no scripture as a foundation or background. To me this is on the verge of Blasphemy.

I will reason with you all day long and I have the ability to admit when I am wrong and do so when I am. I am not so ignorant as to think I have it all figured out, Lord knows I am a work in progress.

I appreciate the reasoning together and certainly hope for it to continue. Lets just remember we are brothers in Christ and teather our relationship with his Love abounding.

God Bless

 

[Soul Searcher]

Should I point out once again that to say one must be baptised in water to be saved means literally that you must depend on a human other than yourself and other than Jesus to save you. In light of this fact the notion of the requirement of water baptism falls flat on its face.

So those of you who say it is required consider the question, Is Jesus able to save those who he came to save or is it only possible when another man help him by dunking you in water, an act which is nothing more than a symbolic ritual that does absolutely nothing to cleanse the soul nor reform the person nor even alter thier beliefs in any way whatsoever.

 

[BroGinder]

I believe Jesus came to fulfill that purpose, however there are requirements of us. We are not all saved so there must be some action taken on our part.

I have seen mark 16:16 quoted in here till I am blue in the face and it ALONE doesnt hold water. There are scriptures that say Believe as the scriptures say, whcih mean to put your faith into action.

There was no water baptism prior to the 6 months before Jesus' ministry took off. Why is it that it was introduced even though it was to repentance, it was done.

God expects us to live a certain way, as is so discussed through out the scriptures. I can not get away from Acts 2:38 for some reason. I keep hearing, Jesus had just ascended and was not gone from him for more than 10 days, and did Peter miss the message.

I understand that as time went on Paul had to write the Churches of the time and admonish them for their falling from, from watering down (no pun intended) of the Apostle's Doctrine. However in Acts Jesus had not been gone very long and it is difficult for me to believe that he missed it by that much.

I will contend to this, that without the grace and mercy of Jesus we would just get wet. Being baptised DOES NOT save you but is part of the process that does.

God Bless

 

[Soul Searcher]

IMO Water baptism amounts to abotu a hill of beans. It is only useful to show other people you have been baptised and has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It is a ritual nothing more.

Keep in mind that no matter how you word it if you say that baptism is a required part of the process then that means that Jesus can not save us on his own, it means that he can not save us with our help, it means that another man must help Jesus save us or else and it is pure nonsense.

 

[BroGinder]

I am not saying he cant. That is clearly not the message I am trying to deliver. Jesus has all power and can Do whatever except lie. So I am not saying he can't I am saying he won't Per the scriptures.

 

[Soul Searcher]

So you are saying that our salvation lays in the hands of a preacher so to speak.

Sorry but I think you are very wrong in this.

 

[BroGinder]

Our salvation lays in the middle of our ears. In our willingness to be obedient to his word.

12 ment went out to see the promise land. God sent them. They were not sent to see who lived there and to gage their opponent. They were sent there to see that it was everything God had promised them.

10 brought back a bad report and two were obedient and said the land is like he said and we can take the people there as like eating bread.

10 perished and all who believed them. 2 of that leadership saw the promise land. Why? They were obedient.

Jesus himself was baptised, John the Baptised recognized the Lord and said I am in need to be baptised of you. The Lord said you must baptise me.

I do hope for your sake I am wrong as well my friend.

God Bless

 

[Soul Searcher]

It doesn't matter who was baptised nor why. It is a ritual with symbolic meaning and nothing more. No one is saved by water baptism nor is anyone not saved due to not having been baptised in water.

 

[BroGinder]

I appreciate your vigor, but can you show me some scripture surrounding that thought please.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Actually I think a little common sense is all that is needed to see the problems that arise when one considers baptism as a requirement for salvation.

There is no scripture of which I am aware that explicitly states baptism is not required but the ommission of any mention of it whatsoever in many important passages should be a clue.

The sermon on the mount for example, It does nto say blessed are the poor in spirit who have been baptised, nor does it say blessed are the peacemakers who have been baptised... If baptism were so important that one could not be saved without it don't you think that Jesus would have mentioned it here?

The sheep and the goats it talks about those who have helped others and those who have not, baptism not mentioned at all. Again if baptism were so important don;t you think that Jesus would have mentioned it here?

The bible says that we are judged by what we have done not by if we are baptised and not by what we believe but by what we have done. All that is asked of us is that we treat one another with love and kindness.

There is no indication that any human outside our selves must do anything to us nor for us for us to be saved. If such were true imagion the boasting that man could do who baptised all these people so that they might be saved, but this is not the case is it. No one can boast because it is not of ourselves that we are saved and it certianly isn't of the preacher who dunks one in the water.

John the baptist said that he who comes after me will baptise you with fire and with the holy spirit. This is the real baptism and it happens within us not by being dunked in the water.

In the passages I mentioned above Jesus does not use the word baptism and he certianly is not talking about water baptism but he is talking about that baptism by fire that leads to repentance. It is the change in the person that is important not getting wet or staying dry.

 

[evangelist]

Actually I think a little common sense is all that is needed to see the problems that arise when one considers baptism as a requirement for salvation.

There is no scripture of which I am aware that explicitly states baptism is not required but the ommission of any mention of it whatsoever in many important passages should be a clue.

The sermon on the mount for example, It does nto say blessed are the poor in spirit who have been baptised, nor does it say blessed are the peacemakers who have been baptised... If baptism were so important that one could not be saved without it don't you think that Jesus would have mentioned it here?

The sheep and the goats it talks about those who have helped others and those who have not, baptism not mentioned at all. Again if baptism were so important don;t you think that Jesus would have mentioned it here?

The bible says that we are judged by what we have done not by if we are baptised and not by what we believe but by what we have done. All that is asked of us is that we treat one another with love and kindness.

There is no indication that any human outside our selves must do anything to us nor for us for us to be saved. If such were true imagion the boasting that man could do who baptised all these people so that they might be saved, but this is not the case is it. No one can boast because it is not of ourselves that we are saved and it certianly isn't of the preacher who dunks one in the water.

John the baptist said that he who comes after me will baptise you with fire and with the holy spirit. This is the real baptism and it happens within us not by being dunked in the water.

In the passages I mentioned above Jesus does not use the word baptism and he certianly is not talking about water baptism but he is talking about that baptism by fire that leads to repentance. It is the change in the person that is important not getting wet or staying dry.

I agree 100% with you but many religion and cults think that it is a condition to be water baptized and a commandment direct from Jesus to be baptized, and it is a must or you are not forgiven of your sins.
Thier scripture they use is John 3:5 because it saY water and spirit, meaning to them water baptismo and the believing in the spiritual.

 

[BroGinder]

Soul Searcher,

I spent much time this weekend meditating on this topic and asking God to speak to me on this as I clearly do not want to be mistaken. I would like to share with you what God spoke to me.
As I was meditating on what you have submitted to me, and what I felt the Word said, I just asked God to tell me. God said this to me. If everyone is saved by believeing in me, then why would I have supplied my Word for you to follow. If all that was required was simple belief only as many think with no requirements on mans side why would I have robed in flesh and died for you. He emphasized YOU have to apply the blood that was supplied. YOU have to take on my name as I am the bridegroom and you my bride.
You must be obedient, I said be ye Holy as I am Holy. Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. He showed me the requirements of prayer. He asked me if that were a ritual? He asked me if fasting was a ritual.
I was blown away by his response as it was loving and gentle. Its not a ritual its a requirement. I truly feel you are hungry for truth, while others are not so hungry. I feel much sincerity in your post.
I am not pursuaded to change my stance on what the Lord has shown me in His Word. I will pray for you and I wll fast for you, that God will reveal to you His plan. I also will pray that if I misunderstood him, that he would be very plain with me as I am just a man sold out to him and wanting to do the will of my Father.

May God bless you richly Soul Searcher.

God Bless you Evangelist, I pray the same prayer for you as I do Soul Searcher.

I pray Jesus tarries just awhile longer to allow FULL revelation of His Word to those that TRULY seek it.

 

[KCDAD]

I would like to share with you what God spoke to me.
As I was meditating on what you have submitted to me, and what I felt the Word said, I just asked God to tell me. God said this to me. If everyone is saved by believeing in me, then why would I have supplied my Word for you to follow. If all that was required was simple belief only as many think with no requirements on mans side why would I have robed in flesh and died for you. He emphasized YOU have to apply the blood that was supplied. YOU have to take on my name as I am the bridegroom and you my bride.
You must be obedient, I said be ye Holy as I am Holy. Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. He showed me the requirements of prayer. He asked me if that were a ritual? He asked me if fasting was a ritual.
I was blown away by his response as it was loving and gentle. Its not a ritual its a requirement. I truly feel you are hungry for truth, while others are not so hungry. I feel much sincerity in your post.
I am not pursuaded to change my stance on what the Lord has shown me in His Word. I will pray for you and I wll fast for you, that God will reveal to you His plan. I also will pray that if I misunderstood him, that he would be very plain with me as I am just a man sold out to him and wanting to do the will of my Father.

May God bless you richly Soul Searcher.

God Bless you Evangelist, I pray the same prayer for you as I do Soul Searcher.

I pray Jesus tarries just awhile longer to allow FULL revelation of His Word to those that TRULY seek it.

The most important line in this entire post is the one in red... you "heard" what you wanted to hear.
I put God's words in italics because I wanted everyone to know God's word as spoken to you. I don't them to be confused with your interpretation of what you heard.

I only hope God listens to you and forces Jesus to tarry a little while longer simply because you asked. It is nice to know that God will alter his eternal perfect plan to accomodate your requests. I also hope that God does bless those two because you asked him to. I am sure that he was withholding his blessing until you asked for it.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Soul Searcher,

I spent much time this weekend meditating on this topic and asking God to speak to me on this as I clearly do not want to be mistaken. I would like to share with you what God spoke to me.
As I was meditating on what you have submitted to me, and what I felt the Word said, I just asked God to tell me. God said this to me. If everyone is saved by believeing in me, then why would I have supplied my Word for you to follow. If all that was required was simple belief only as many think with no requirements on mans side why would I have robed in flesh and died for you. He emphasized YOU have to apply the blood that was supplied. YOU have to take on my name as I am the bridegroom and you my bride.
You must be obedient, I said be ye Holy as I am Holy. Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. He showed me the requirements of prayer. He asked me if that were a ritual? He asked me if fasting was a ritual.
I was blown away by his response as it was loving and gentle. Its not a ritual its a requirement. I truly feel you are hungry for truth, while others are not so hungry. I feel much sincerity in your post.
I am not pursuaded to change my stance on what the Lord has shown me in His Word. I will pray for you and I wll fast for you, that God will reveal to you His plan. I also will pray that if I misunderstood him, that he would be very plain with me as I am just a man sold out to him and wanting to do the will of my Father.

May God bless you richly Soul Searcher.

God Bless you Evangelist, I pray the same prayer for you as I do Soul Searcher.

I pray Jesus tarries just awhile longer to allow FULL revelation of His Word to those that TRULY seek it.

Just a couple of things.

One I did not say nor indicate that simple belief was all that is required. I did say that all that is asked of us is that we treat one another with love and kindness. I also said that we are not judged by if we are baptised nor by what we believe but by what we have done. To be clear this is referring to how we treat one another. The good samartian, the sermon on the mount, the sheep and the goats all lay this out pretty well imo.

Two. When Jesus says be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect notice what he had been talking about in the several verses leading up to this statement. Love your enemies being one of the best examples. He says [paraphrased] if you love only those who love you what good are you? Do not even the lowest of sinners do the same? There are two things being revealed here. One is that he asks us to treat everyone with love and kindness even if those people do not return in kind. Two he is telling us that God does in fact love everyone and will treat everyone with love and kindness. Water baptism plays no role here.

 

[BroGinder]

KCDAD,

Even if you were right, you missed the mark friend. Your gonna have to Love. Even if your right no one will listen to you because you fail to demonstrate Love.

Sarcasim is not Love demonstrated. The Word of God says that you can have all the gifts, all the knowledge but without love we are nothing. God Bless you my friend.

"Ask and ye shall recieve, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you."

"You have not because you ask not"

In Jesus name!

 

[BroGinder]

I so embrace the requirement of Love. The portion that I think we often over look is that he Loves us enough to allow us to NOT serve him. He is a gentlemen, he will not force himself upon us. He wants us to Love him because we CHOOSE to. The Water is unavoidable, as unavoidable as the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It takes both.

How do you serve someone lest your Love is in action. We will just agree to disagree on this point. As according to the Word of God we must each work out our own salvation through fear and trembling.

God Bless you my friend. Thanks for the stand as it drove me into the Word deeper.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Acts 10:34
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
KJV

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
KJV

Col 2:12
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
KJV

Gal 3:27
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

Matt 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
KJV

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
KJV

Mark 6:12
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
KJV

Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
KJV

The scriptures above will be in agreement with what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that salvation should be in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection. The message Peter preached in Acts 2:38 says to REPENT – to have the old man die. We must repent, and this is the DEATH. And be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS. When a man is dead we bury him. The Bible says we are buried with Christ in baptism, and this is the BURIAL. And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says we can take part in the resurrection of Christ if we have His Spirit. This is the RESURRECTION. So if you follow Peter’s answer, you will Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then you will have obeyed Jesus and taken part in the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ! This is the plan of salvation!

Does this clarify it any better for you as to what I am saying? Sometimes when we we start quoting and bouncing from post to post soemthing gets lost along the way. I ant to make sure I am clear on what I am saying the plan is, and where I draw it from.

God Bless

So you say baptism is necessary IN Salvation. And we agree that baptism is not necessary FOR Salvation.

In Christ,
YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

How come you can tell "let the old man die" is a metaphor, but can't figure out the rest of the metaphors?
Do you know what "baptized in Jesus' name" means? HINT: It does not mean to say Jesus name while dunking someone in a tub.

Buried with Christ? Do you know what that means?

What is the gift that the Holy Spirit gives us?

You write a lot of words without a lot of meaning.

Actually, in this case, the Holy Spirit HIMSELF is the Gift.



YAQUBOS†