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Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

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BroGinder

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"Enemy of your soul"? Who are you talking about? We are the enemy of our own soul.

Where as it is true that we are one (1) of the enemies of our soul I agree, however, you are aware of who I am referring to. I am seriously in a reasoning mindset here. Lets not patronize one another.

Opinions need to be based on something. I even removed using the Mark scripture and listed MANY other scriptures that support baptism. You have offered opinions. Show me scripture. TO save you time in reviewing my other posts I will offer you a few scriptures here.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Notice it then says and ye shall recieve the Gift of the Hoy Ghost. Baptism was not referring to the infilling of his Spirit. It was a seperate event.

Acts 10:48
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
KJV

Commanded them to be baptised. Interesting that it is a command and not a suggestion.

Acts 8:16-17
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Again denoting that being baptised and being filled with his Spirit are two seperate events.

Acts 19:5-6
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
KJV

Do we see a reoccuring theme in these scripture?

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

Here we have Jesus giving orders, commands as to what is expected.

I have asked you for scripture that contradicts this. If you have it submit it. If not then you are only posting your opinion. I am pretty sure God will not take that as an excuse that KCDAD told me I did not have to be baptized so I wasnt. I am pretty sure he would ask, what did I say.

I will close with this thought. If you are right I am still safe. If I am right are you? I would suggest maybe a further look into the Word or maybe offer up scripture that validates your stand please. Do not fall short or allow me to fall short. If your right show me. My mind is open to God. If I am wrong I can clearly take it and adjust myself to align in God's will, are you willing to if he shows you that your wrong? I am.

God Bless you my friend.
 
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KCDAD

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That's fine and dandy... what makes you think that they mean water baptism?

I don't think there is a scripture that contradicts what you posted... but there are plenty of scriptures that ignore and deny baptism and belief as requirements for entering the kingdom.
 
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BroGinder

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That's fine and dandy... what makes you think that they mean water baptism?

I don't think there is a scripture that contradicts what you posted... but there are plenty of scriptures that ignore and deny baptism and belief as requirements for entering the kingdom.

There were two events described as baptism, one was Spirit and one was water. If they covered the infilling of the Holy Ghost as a seperate event, then what other would they refer to?

If there are no scriptures that contradict the need for baptism, then what is your opinion based on?

Would you offer them please.

Thank you.
 
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KCDAD

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Jesus said: Belief is not enough, even the demons believe and tremble... so belief is not a requirment.
By grace we are saved... God's grace... nothing we say or do effects that. It is not conditional or arbitrary... it is a universal constant.

What are we saved from? Sin? Something we did? Something about how we were created? God created us... each and every one of us... God did not create sinners. What God creates is perfect and good.

You can believe the Jewish ideas of sin and sacrifice all you want... Jesus spent his life teaching differently. So did most of the prophets, by the way.

What is easier to say your sins are forgiven or take up your bed and walk? What was being done here? Healing a broken spirit, not washing clean the stain of sin with blood.
 
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BroGinder

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So everyone is saved no matter what. If we have to do nothing to be saved, God picks and chooses or we are all saved by what you posted there. That is not what the Word of God says. It is a journey, there is an expectged behaviour. "be Holy" thats action on our part. "thou shall not" That requires action on our part to not do something. "thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart" thats an action. Demonstrate love with no action. You cant.

So back to the Baptism. To clarify once again Baptism does not save you. You can get in the water a dry devil and come out a wet one. However, it is one of the ingredients needed to be saved.

Here is more scripture:
Heb 6:1-2
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
KJV
 
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KCDAD

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Mark 16:16. Acts 2:38.
Mark 16:16 is not original gospel, it was added later. (That's a bad thing)

"baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins"... do you believe that? Our sins are forgiven by the splashing of water?
 
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YAQUBOS

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No, we must believe as the scripture says. Thats what the Word says.

And the Scripture says that Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone.





Ok but without it you wont be saved. Its not the saving action, it is however, required to be saved.

You can be saved without being baptized with water if you couldn't be baptized. It is NOT required to be saved. It is an essential part of Salvation that you receive by faith alone.

YAQUBOS†
 
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YAQUBOS

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Let me challenge you for a moment to reflect. How did Jesus say you would know those that follow him? There were several sets of scripture that depcit what you would see.

Think about it, think about if you see that were you sit now. If you do not I would re-evaluate where I was sitting.

EDITED TO ADD THE FOLLOWING:

John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
KJV

This shows me that it takes more than just simple belief. It has to be in motion. Can you show Love without doing a thing? No.

Love is the fruit of the Spirit. It is the fruit of true living faith. So it's not love that is required for Salvation, but living faith alone. And that faith will give love as fruit.

Mark 16:15-18
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV

Just want to point out verse 16 there. Its the Mark 16:16 that many use to show belief is all that is needed. However the requirement of Baptism is stated. The Comforter, Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost dwelt in him at this time, so he was not talking about baptism of the Spirit. :thumbsup:

Jesus was talking about the water baptism. He said that it is required IN Salvation, and then He added that only faith is required FOR Salvation when He said that those who do not believe are condemned. He didn't say that those who are not baptized are condemned. So baptism is essential IN Salvation, but not FOR Salvation.

YAQUBOS†
 
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YAQUBOS

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Jesus said: Belief is not enough, even the demons believe and tremble... so belief is not a requirment.
By grace we are saved... God's grace... nothing we say or do effects that. It is not conditional or arbitrary... it is a universal constant.

What are we saved from? Sin? Something we did? Something about how we were created? God created us... each and every one of us... God did not create sinners. What God creates is perfect and good.

You can believe the Jewish ideas of sin and sacrifice all you want... Jesus spent his life teaching differently. So did most of the prophets, by the way.

What is easier to say your sins are forgiven or take up your bed and walk? What was being done here? Healing a broken spirit, not washing clean the stain of sin with blood.

You seem to have some comments on the Blood of Jesus, just as all the false disciples of Jesus had when He said:

"So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves." ( John 6:53 )

YAQUBOS†
 
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YAQUBOS

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So everyone is saved no matter what. If we have to do nothing to be saved, God picks and chooses or we are all saved by what you posted there. That is not what the Word of God says. It is a journey, there is an expectged behaviour. "be Holy" thats action on our part. "thou shall not" That requires action on our part to not do something. "thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart" thats an action. Demonstrate love with no action. You cant.

Dear friend, I have noticed in your replies that you don't know the difference between the Law and the Gospel. In the above quotation, you are talking about Sanctification, not about Justification. But the problem is that you are saying sanctification justifies you before God. The biblical truth is that nothing but living faith justifies you before God, and then this living faith gives the INEVITABLE fruit of sanctification. We are not saved by keeping the Law, but by faith alone.

So back to the Baptism. To clarify once again Baptism does not save you. You can get in the water a dry devil and come out a wet one. However, it is one of the ingredients needed to be saved.

No, it's not needed TO BE saved. It's an essential PART of Salvation.

Here is more scripture:
Heb 6:1-2
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
KJV

This passage doesn't even show the importance of baptism...

YAQUBOS†
 
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BroGinder

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Clarification again.

#1- Baptism alone does not save you, however, your salvation is not complete wihtout it. It is a required ingredient in the process.

#2- Your not saved by faith but through faith by grace. If you think that you can do nothing to be saved you will never be saved. How do you show someone you believe in them and do nothing that they said for you to do.

#3- This whole Mark scripture was added later is rubbish. You can go ahead and take that stand if you want to. Thats clearly what the enemy of your soul wants to convince your mind to discredit the Word of God. So beit you can answer for that I wont.

#4- If you think that there are not rules, Laws, that God expects us to abide by which is the demonstration of our faith, then I htink maybe some further research may be in order. There are plenty of people who think they can go to Church on Sunday and be all Holy and then live like Hell on Monday. Its not going to work.

Holiness is on the inside, and it spills over to the outside and is evident by how we talk, act, dress, etc...

Anyway. Baptism is REQUIRED, I have demonstrated over and over through scripture that this is a must need. It is not the only NEED for salvation for without grace it would all be for not. One must Repent, be Baptized in JEsus Name, and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost to be saved. Thats the plan. Its simple and man tries to complicate it, discredit it.

God Bless you all
 
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KCDAD

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Can't you see that even in discussions among yourselves you can't agree as to what you are talking about... sanctification and justification... these words are meaningless in Christianese because everyone comes up with their own meaning. Baptism is an essential part but not needed... what kind of Orwellian double speak is that?

Baptism is a symbolic act, just like wearing a WWJD bracelet or a cross... crossing oneself when praying or saying "God bless you" when someone sneezes.
 
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BroGinder

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2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I rebuke any thing or anyone that comes against the inspired Word of God. The harmony of the Gospels are solid and have been proven time and time again.

How can you be sure you know the REAL truth? Here are some scripture to help on that.

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Study, know Gods word. Know Gods voice. Listen to him as he instructs you. If God does not speak to you you need to get closer so you can hear him.

2 Tim 3:15
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

There was a time when families took time to teach there children the Word of God. Our society has clearly drifted from this and have allowed our children to fall into "EASYBELIEVISM" theology. We must know who God is and show our children who God is.

2 Peter 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Here is where I see many errors in this thread. It does not matter what we think what matters is what God meant when he said it. If you do not know, or can not find it in his Word I would drop that mindset and seek his will.

Titus 2:1
2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Sound doctrine. If it is not covered by scripture if you can not support it with God Word then I would abandon the thought.

Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Tim 4:13-16
13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

It says know his Word. Read it, study it, use it, apply it.

Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lasciviousnes, look it up see what that means.

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He will not speak of himself. Show me the Word that covers your opinion otherwise you are not being guided by the Spirit of Truth but of self.

Matt 5:6
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


It is good in the sight of God that we are diligent in the seeking of knowledge of his Word to the perfection of righteousness. So much so that he has placed a promise on it if we do. That we shall be filled. Filled with what? THat which we seek. Read that scripture, seeking righteousness, and filled with what we seek.

Luke 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

1 Cor 15:34
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Those two scripture should go to the bone for someone.

Eph 3:4
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


So much for those that say we can not understand all of God. He intends for us to understand his Word. Why else would he have inspired it ot be written. It is a Love book, guidance, instruction, admonition. It is for you.

Col 1:10
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Walking is a verb. Hence we must do something. We must follow him as he leads us. We must produce fruit that testifies of his greatness.

1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Thank you Jesus.

How am I saved? Here are some scripture for you on that topic.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Col 2:12
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matt 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Mark 6:12
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


There are scripture here that Jesus taught as well as what the Apostles taught and they are all in agreement.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Let this scripture do what it is intended to do. Hold us accountable to the Word of God.

God Bless
 
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KCDAD

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2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I rebuke any thing or anyone that comes against the inspired Word of God. The harmony of the Gospels are solid and have been proven time and time again.

How can you be sure you know the REAL truth? Here are some scripture to help on that.

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Study, know Gods word. Know Gods voice. Listen to him as he instructs you. If God does not speak to you you need to get closer so you can hear him.

2 Tim 3:15
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

There was a time when families took time to teach there children the Word of God. Our society has clearly drifted from this and have allowed our children to fall into "EASYBELIEVISM" theology. We must know who God is and show our children who God is.

2 Peter 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Here is where I see many errors in this thread. It does not matter what we think what matters is what God meant when he said it. If you do not know, or can not find it in his Word I would drop that mindset and seek his will.

Titus 2:1
2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Sound doctrine. If it is not covered by scripture if you can not support it with God Word then I would abandon the thought.

Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Tim 4:13-16
13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

It says know his Word. Read it, study it, use it, apply it.

Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lasciviousnes, look it up see what that means.

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He will not speak of himself. Show me the Word that covers your opinion otherwise you are not being guided by the Spirit of Truth but of self.

Matt 5:6
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.


It is good in the sight of God that we are diligent in the seeking of knowledge of his Word to the perfection of righteousness. So much so that he has placed a promise on it if we do. That we shall be filled. Filled with what? THat which we seek. Read that scripture, seeking righteousness, and filled with what we seek.

Luke 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

1 Cor 15:34
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Those two scripture should go to the bone for someone.

Eph 3:4
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


So much for those that say we can not understand all of God. He intends for us to understand his Word. Why else would he have inspired it ot be written. It is a Love book, guidance, instruction, admonition. It is for you.

Col 1:10
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Walking is a verb. Hence we must do something. We must follow him as he leads us. We must produce fruit that testifies of his greatness.

1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Thank you Jesus.

How am I saved? Here are some scripture for you on that topic.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Col 2:12
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matt 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Heb 12:14
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Mark 6:12
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


There are scripture here that Jesus taught as well as what the Apostles taught and they are all in agreement.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Let this scripture do what it is intended to do. Hold us accountable to the Word of God.

God Bless
2 Timothy... ok... what is scripture that is being referred to? Stuff that wasn't written yet? Of course not. No one could have forseen what the Council of Nicea was going to include in their Canon. Not even the Holy Spirit can predict human behavior or alter free will.

It is obvious that you are a strict Biblical Christian. How sad. Not one of the Disciples / Apostles had a Bible.
 
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Soul Searcher

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Anyway. Baptism is REQUIRED, I have demonstrated over and over through scripture that this is a must need. It is not the only NEED for salvation for without grace it would all be for not. One must Repent, be Baptized in JEsus Name, and recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost to be saved. Thats the plan. Its simple and man tries to complicate it, discredit it.

God Bless you all

So I guess all those millions who lived before Jesus was born are just totally out of luck, Moses, Abraham and such must not be saved as they were never baptised in the name of Jesus. It is also reasonable to assume that the theif on the cross also was never baptised in the name of Jesus but apparently that did not effect his salvation in the eyes of Jesus.

All I can say is that if you feel baptism is required then by all means make sure you get baptised but I strongly disagree with the notion that it is a requirement. It is a ritual done in the presence of men and often due to peer pressure. Also I can not stress enough that this concept places your salvation in the hands of another man. I know you have said that it is not the only thing and I guess that means your salvation is not in the hands of man but this is incorrect.

If two men come to a preacher all things being equal the preacher agrees to baptise one of them but not the other and both men die that day then according to your concept one man would go to heaven and the other would go to hell all because of a decision made by another man. In a word.... Nonsense.
 
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KCDAD

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So I guess all those millions who lived before Jesus was born are just totally out of luck, Moses, Abraham and such must not be saved as they were never baptised in the name of Jesus. It is also reasonable to assume that the theif on the cross also was never baptised in the name of Jesus but apparently that did not effect his salvation in the eyes of Jesus.

All I can say is that if you feel baptism is required then by all means make sure you get baptised but I strongly disagree with the notion that it is a requirement. It is a ritual done in the presence of men and often due to peer pressure. Also I can not stress enough that this concept places your salvation in the hands of another man. I know you have said that it is not the only thing and I guess that means your salvation is not in the hands of man but this is incorrect.

If two men come to a preacher all things being equal the preacher agrees to baptise one of them but not the other and both men die that day then according to your concept one man would go to heaven and the other would go to hell all because of a decision made by another man. In a word.... Nonsense.
I wish I could find some other people that deserve reputation bumps...
 
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BroGinder

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2 Timothy... ok... what is scripture that is being referred to? Stuff that wasn't written yet? Of course not. No one could have forseen what the Council of Nicea was going to include in their Canon. Not even the Holy Spirit can predict human behavior or alter free will.

It is obvious that you are a strict Biblical Christian. How sad. Not one of the Disciples / Apostles had a Bible.

Council of Nicea did not continue the Apostles Doctrine. To say not one of them had a Bible is clearly looking through a dark glass. They gathered constantly to read the scripture. Jesus refered to scripture in the Bible. They just did not call it the Bible. It was referred to as the scripture. Anyway, I'll not follow a doctrine of man, the scripture tells me not to.

I pray for Love to drive to your bones and you feel what true Love is. If you had ever felt it you would be able to disperse it. Instead you often result in insults and badgerings that really are not becoming of a person that calls themselves a Christian.

I wish I could find some other people that deserve reputation bumps...

I Love you and hope that you find all your seeking for. If you would just take the time to read his word to you, how wonderful a revelation he could offer you.

God Bless you my friend
 
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BroGinder

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So I guess all those millions who lived before Jesus was born are just totally out of luck, Moses, Abraham and such must not be saved as they were never baptised in the name of Jesus. It is also reasonable to assume that the theif on the cross also was never baptised in the name of Jesus but apparently that did not effect his salvation in the eyes of Jesus.

All I can say is that if you feel baptism is required then by all means make sure you get baptised but I strongly disagree with the notion that it is a requirement. It is a ritual done in the presence of men and often due to peer pressure. Also I can not stress enough that this concept places your salvation in the hands of another man. I know you have said that it is not the only thing and I guess that means your salvation is not in the hands of man but this is incorrect.

If two men come to a preacher all things being equal the preacher agrees to baptise one of them but not the other and both men die that day then according to your concept one man would go to heaven and the other would go to hell all because of a decision made by another man. In a word.... Nonsense.

Its not the preachers job to make the decision. Its your hearts decision to follow Jesus or not. So call it nonsense if you wish, it is the condiition of your heart and your willingness to follow his instructions to us.
 
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Soul Searcher

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Its not the preachers job to make the decision. Its your hearts decision to follow Jesus or not. So call it nonsense if you wish, it is the condiition of your heart and your willingness to follow his instructions to us.

:scratch: The preacher in the case in question does make a decision to baptise or not to baptise and the persons eternal fate is in his hands in that senario or it would if baptism was a requirement as you say it is. This is the nonsense. Following Jesus has nothing to do with being dunked in or sprinkled by water. It has to do with treating others as you would be treated, and not doing to others that which you would not want done to you. To judge as you would be judged and walk humbly in these ways.

Read the sermon on the mount. These were Jesus's instructions to us and no where does he say that unless you are baptised you will not be saved. In fact he does not mention this water baptism at all in what is very likely the most important message of the bible.

Mark 16 acredits those words to Jesus and this passage was very likely added later by someone else but even if we take that passage at face value it still does not say that baptism is required to be saved.

Why can't you admit that your doctorine places the eternal fate of each and every man in the hands of a preacher via the work of baptism. Regaurdless of how many other things must be believed or done to say this one is required means that having done/believed all the others we would be saved by this work of a man plain and simple and this is totally against scripture and common sense as well.

So tell me does the merciful an who is not baptised receive mercy? Does the forgiving man who is not baptised obtain forgiveness? Are those who display the fruit of the spirit really the sheep or is it only those who go for a dip in the water at the hands of a preacher?

While we're at it does it have to be a true Christian that does the baptism or can it be just anyone? If the former how can we ever know if the preacher was a true Christian or not? If he wasn't then would that mean we were doomed for hell?
 
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