And that's very essential. It contradicts what you said about trying to follow Christ's example.
Did he not add two great commandments upon which all the commandments and the apostles where to hang? Ok before i am taken to the cross over that, I am not saying "Law" as it seems others are defining it. There is an expected way we are to live. there are things we must do.
No, Jesus Christ didn't add any Commandment. If you think otherwise, then please quote those Commandments.
And, yes, you don't have to do ANYTHING to save yourself. You only have to RECEIVE the Grace of God by faith.
I prefer we do not get into trying to go by a verbatim midset or this will turn into a lions den. I feel your passion and I think you feel mine, and I certianly hope you understand that is not sent as a dart, but as a shield to protect. Not from me, but we all know there are th ose trolling waiting for an opportunity to pounce.
So let's clearly say it: we don't follow Jesus' example in a fleshly manner.
That goes without saying. There are many things that one has to assume and maybe this is where I am in error. I assume if one is engaged in this topic one has at least basic knowledge of who Jesus.
So the baptism of Jesus cannot be taken as an example in explaining our baptism.
By the way: Jesus was baptized with JOHN's baptism. We are baptized with Christian baptism.
I do not see that he was referring to the Word of God as the water. Maybe you can help me see that clearer. I see that water has been a serpation for Gods people all the way back to the Exodus of Egypt, when Water seperated Isreal from their past Egypt and the water washed away their past Egypt when it rolled back and destroyed the army of Egypt. Hence the water baptism today does the very thing. Washes away our past hence the remission of sins.
Before I give you the biblical references, please tell me how material water washes sin. Did the water of the Flood wash the sins of those who were not in the Ark? Did the water of the Red Sea wash the sins of the Israelites who fell in the desert after they passed the sea?
What are you reborn of if you are not baptised.
I let the Bible answer you:
"for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." ( 1 Peter 1:23 )
The step is three steps. Repentance, Baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:36-38
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV
DId Peter miss it? After three years of training and walking with Jesus, did he miss the basics of salvation?
No. I already quoted Peter explaining how we are born again.
Repentance, baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit are all parts of Salvation. You receive them all by faith alone.
Remission of sin and forgiveness are not the same. Remission is as if they never existed. Wiped clean. All things pass away all things become new.
And that's what forgiveness is. Let me quote the passage you quoted from Acts 2 from another version, and see:
"Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."" ( Acts 2:38 )
I understand that we are now circumsised in our hearts not physically.
In the Old Testament also, the Jews had to be circumcised in heart, and not only physically.
I absolutley do not follow you here. Please help me as I do not understand what you are saying here.
Just as a circumcised Jew was not saved just by being circumcised physically, but he had to circumcise his heart, in the same way a Christian is not born again just by being baptized outwardly, but he also has to be baptized by the Holy Spirit in New Birth in his heart. Just as the Jew brought a greater judgment on himself by being in God's people but without really having his heart circumcised, in the same manner your judgment is greater if you are called by the Name of Christ, but you are not born again.
Faith alone will not save you. Faith doesnt save you, we are saved by Grace, how, through Faith.
Exactly. So we are saved by receiving that Grace, and not by doing anything else. So Salvation is through living faith alone.
I agree the order they happen is not that important. its Gods plan the order is not left to us, only that all the ingredients are included.
So Salvation is not by baptism. Baptism is part of that Salvation.
I disagree. They were not saved until they had gone through the water. They were clearly on the way but there yet. The baptism completed the ingredients.
Well, the Bible says that they were saved by hearing the words that Peter preached. Then they were baptized because they already received the Holy Spirit.
Do you think it is ironic that this water issue comes up over and over in the Bible. The Word of God does not repeat thigns unless they are important. Its like an old teacher of mine says, hit it till they get it. Even God used that teaching principle. He stated it over and over again. If it had not been necessary, then why, why would they have done so.
Exactly! I said it, and I repeat it again: Baptism is necessary IN Salvation, but not FOR Salvation.
Do you think something is not necessary unless it saves you? Salvation itself, after being received, becomes unnecessary for you?
WHy would Phillip had baptised the Eunich if it was not needed. Why would the Eunich felt convinced he needed it less the Holy Ghost reveal this to him. Notice no where did that setting of scripture say the Eunich had recieved the Holy Ghost. Why did they say at Cornelius house they went straight way to the water. That means they did not let any dust settle.
Yes, baptism is necessary as a part of Salvation, but not FOR Salvation.
What is living Faith? How do you gage Faith? Show me your Faith. If you can show it to me, then what is it? Its a work. Ok let me keep myself off the tree again.
Living faith is that faith that received God's Grace in Jesus Christ by admitting that my works cannot save me. This faith gives good fruits = good works. Faith is not a work. It's the receiving of God's Work or Grace.
WORKS DO NOT SAVE YOU, however, your Faith is demonstrated in all you do. If I say I am a sober man, and you see me drunk am I truly a sober man? No. The works, is your faith in action. If I tell you a meteor is falling and going to land where you are standing and you believe me or have faith in my statement you will probable move from wher eyou are standing. Thats Faith in motion. Works are the fruit of your Faith. they however do not save you at all. they just are the light of Jesus shinning through you.
Exactly: works are the fruit of faith. You are saved by faith, and then you give fruits of Salvation.
The devils and demons believe, or have faith that Jesus lives. Yet they are not saved. Grace saves, through Faith.
Demons have a dead faith = knowledge. That cannot save anyone. I am talking about the living faith that received God's Grace. Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone. You can't do anything to save yourself. You just receive what Jesus did for you.
You agreed on the following: "Faith is when you admit that you are a totally lost sinner
who cannot do anything to save himself, and you receive the Grace of God brought by Jesus Christ who was crucified because of our sins and rose again for our justification."
I have put in bold the part that I want you to notice very well. That part says that there is no work you can do in order to save yourself.
If they are baptised that is not dead faith. That is faith in motion. Faith in Gods word and doing what he has said is essential and required. Liek Being Holy cause he is Holy. Being perfect because he is perfect. How do we do this through him.
Many disciples were baptized, but they were not true believers. They only believed with a dead faith. The Bible says that clearly.
I agree witht hat. Many go through the motions, but they did not truly repent. They did not sell out to Christ. They were just tingling brass.
So they were baptized, but were not born again.
You agreed on the following:
"So many people who are baptized are not yet born of God."
So you agree that baptism is not the new birth.
The three steps of salvation take you there. Notice in repentance, that is man controlled. Baptism is man controlled. The filling of the Holy Ghost is God controlled. Your not saved until you are sealed with the Holy Ghost. That is out of mans hands lest we should boast.
Notice that repentance is God controlled, baptism is God controlled and the filling of the Holy Spirit is God controlled. And God is all in all. Man only OBEYS by faith. When God gives you living faith by His Grace, you repent, and you receive what is presented to you in baptism, and you are baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Amen. God bless you in the Name of our Beloved.
YAQUBOS
