Is baptism necessary for salvation?

[Lik3]

Is baptism necessary for salvation? I mean does one have to be saved to be baptized or does one have to believe and be baptized to be saved?

 

[98cwitr]

Is a ring necessary for marriage?

 

[DeaconDean]

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

No.

I mean does one have to be saved to be baptized or does one have to believe and be baptized to be saved?

We are baptized because we have been saved.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Lik3]

Thanks. That is all I need to know.

 

[miamited]

Hi Lik,

As a christian you might be more interested in what Jesus said about it than what we wise old men think. Read Mark 16:16.

Personally, I'm beginning to find it odd that a denomination that calls itself 'baptist' that traces its roots back to fellowships that wouldn't even consider one a believer unless they had received believer's baptism is now doing a 180. It kind of makes me wonder if the Son of Man will find faith upon the earth when he returns.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[98cwitr]

Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 11:16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Ah...there's the context

 

[DeaconDean]

Hi Lik,

As a christian you might be more interested in what Jesus said about it than what we wise old men think. Read Mark 16:16.

Personally, I'm beginning to find it odd that a denomination that calls itself 'baptist' that traces its roots back to fellowships that wouldn't even consider one a believer unless they had received believer's baptism is now doing a 180. It kind of makes me wonder if the Son of Man will find faith upon the earth when he returns.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I hate to disagree with you, but until somebody can prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt that the last nine verses of Mark 16 were not added at a later time, and that they are indeed Mark's words, I will not preach, teach, or base doctrine on a disputed passage of scripture.

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.

In regard to Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual issues with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark, or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake-handling, unless it is also supported by other Scriptures.

Assuming that verse 16 was included in Mark’s original manuscript, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The simple answer is: No, it does not. In fact, when one carefully examines this verse, it becomes clear that in order to make this it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with all other verses in the Bible that deal with salvation, especially the countless verses where only belief or faith is mentioned (e.g. John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is or is not necessary for salvation? No it does not. It very clearly establishes that belief is a requirement for salvation, but does not prove or disprove whether baptism is a condition or requirement for salvation. How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved? We must look to the full counsel of God’s word to establish this. To summarize the evidence against baptism being required for salvation:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2--Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.

4--The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved.

5—If baptism is required for salvation, it means no one can be saved without a third party being present. In other words, if baptism is required for salvation, someone must baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. It means that someone who believes in and trusts in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but does not have the chance of being baptized, cannot be saved. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to its logical conclusion, are devastating. A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish, etc.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24), all before he/she is baptized.

If someone believes in baptismal regeneration, he/she would do well to prayerfully and carefully consider who or what they are really putting their faith and trust in. Is faith being placed in an act (being baptized) or on the finished work of Christ on the cross? Whom or what is being trusted for salvation? Could it be that it is the shadow (baptism) instead of the substance (Jesus Christ)? We must never forget that our faith must rest in Christ alone because “we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

I also cite:

Although the vast majority of later Greek manuscripts contain Mark 16:9-20, the Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. As the oldest manuscripts are known to be the most accurate because they were copied from the original autographs (i.e., they are copies of the originals), and the oldest manuscripts do not contain vv. 9-20, we can conclude that these verses were added later by scribes. The King James Version of the Bible, as well as the New King James, contains vv. 9-20 because the King James used medieval manuscripts as the basis of its translation. Since 1611, however, older and more accurate manuscripts have been discovered and they affirm that vv. 9-20 were not in the original Gospel of Mark.

In addition, the fourth-century church fathers Eusebius and Jerome noted that almost all Greek manuscripts available to them lacked vv. 9–20, although they doubtless knew those other endings existed. In the second century, Justin Martyr and Tatian knew about other endings. Irenaeus, also, in A.D. 150 to 200, must have known about this long ending because he quotes verse 19 from it. So, the early church fathers knew of the added verses, but even by the fourth century, Eusebius said the Greek manuscripts did not include these endings in the originals.

Should Mark 16:9-20 be in the Bible?

I also submit:

The Ending of Mark (Mark 16:9-20)

No, baptism is not necessary for salvation.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[98cwitr]

Dean, wouldn't you agree though that you must be baptized with the Spirit in order to be assured salvation?

 

[miamited]

Hi DD and 98,

I'm perfectly willing to agree that there is some dispute, and it may be quite correct, that Mark didn't write the last few verses of the gospel attributed to him, but then that brings into question the ability of the Holy Spirit to protect and preserve God's word, if we then claim by that that what is written under his gospel is not the truth. However, that discussion is for another thread.

Let's look at Jesus' words to John the baptist when he went to him and sought baptism by John's hands. "Let it be so now for this fulfills all righteousness." What did Jesus mean? To me, it seems that he certainly sees receiving water baptism as a part of fulfilling all righteousness.

Let's look at Jesus' instruction to his disciples as he sent them out before his death and commanded that they baptize and not only that, but every one of the disciples was also baptized.

Let's throw out Jesus' words attributed to him by Mark's gospel. Let's rather deal with the words of Jesus as recorded in Matthew's gospel to go into all nations baptizing... Now, this baptism would seem to be some baptism that must be done by the hands of men. Jesus commands the disciples to baptize. Not to 'see that they are baptized by the Holy Spirit', but that they are to baptize.

Let's look at the account recorded in the book of the Acts of the apostles where Peter is directly questioned as to what the Jews who believed what Peter had preached to them, must do to be saved. Repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit. It would seem obviously that he isn't talking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit as to what they should first receive, but water baptism which, just a we see in the account of Jesus' baptism, brought on the Holy Spirit.

Let's look at Paul's conversion. Thevery first thing that he did after coming to belief was to be baptized.

Listen guys, you are welcome to teach whatever seems right to you, but if anyone should ask of me what they need to do to be saved, I'm inclined to respond with the very same answer that Peter did.

As I pointed out before, 100, 500, 1000 years ago, you couldn't have been considered a baptist unless you had received believer's baptism. What's changed? Us or God?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Hentenza]

Being a Baptist and/or being baptized does not effect salvation. There are many baptized nominal Christian sitting in the pews to make such a blanket statement. This is true of every denomination including those of the early church depicted in scripture. Baptism does not regenerate. Baptism does not remiss sin. Baptism does not make anyone righteous in God's eyes.

 

[Hentenza]

Dean, wouldn't you agree though that you must be baptized with the Spirit in order to be assured salvation?

Only God can effect a Baptism of the Spirit. No one can walk to a body of water that would provide that kind of baptism. We are baptized in the Spirit as a result of our faith in Christ. There is no additional step.

 

[RobertZ]

How would someone even be willing to be Baptized unless they had FIRST believed on Jesus and come into faith in him? You can dunk an unsaved man in the water all day long over and over again and he will still be an unbeliever at the end of the day until the Spirit of God first awakens him to the truth of the Gospel.

Ephesians 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

You are saved after hearing and believing the Gospel that is preached to you and only a regenerate man of God would be willing to be water Baptized in Jesus name.

 

[miamited]

Hi Hentenza,

You wrote that being a baptist and/or being baptized does not effect our salvation. While I am in full agreement with the first, I merely pointed out that there was a time that baptists did hold this as a basic tenant of the faith, I'm just not sure, with all the Scriptural evidence regarding water baptism that the second is true.

I think that you'll find that your following claims regarding baptism are certainly not in keeping with Peter's claims about the work of baptism. He clearly says that the first believers at Pentecost should be baptized for repentence of sin and that it was after this baptism that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The steps he seemed to explain to them was that they should repent in their heart; be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins; and then they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[pdehart]

I believe Baptism is an outwaed expression of an inward work (Being born again).

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Was the thief on the cross baptized?

 

[Hentenza]

Hi Hentenza,

You wrote that being a baptist and/or being baptized does not effect our salvation. While I am in full agreement with the first, I merely pointed out that there was a time that baptists did hold this as a basic tenant of the faith, I'm just not sure, with all the Scriptural evidence regarding water baptism that the second is true.

I think that you'll find that your following claims regarding baptism are certainly not in keeping with Peter's claims about the work of baptism. He clearly says that the first believers at Pentecost should be baptized for repentence of sin and that it was after this baptism that they would receive the Holy Spirit.

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The steps he seemed to explain to them was that they should repent in their heart; be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins; and then they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi Ted,

The concept is not as cut and dry as you suggest. Please consider the following:

1. The Greek word εἰς (rendered in the translation that you posted as "for") has a large semantic range of meaning. Among the plethora of possible definitions are "for", "among", "because of", "in view of", "onto", "in", "into", etc. The word can easily be translated as "because of" since that is a proper translation of this verse that also fits the context.

2. The English word "for" also has a large range of meanings such as “in order to be", "become", "get", "have", "keep", “because of", "as the result of,” “with regard to”, etc. Again, one can read the verse to where "for" means "because of" or "as the result of". The context supports this translation as well. For example, if I say that I took two tylenol tablets for my fever I am obviously not saying that I took the tables in order to get the fever but that I took the tables because of my fever.

3. In many verses of scripture, baptism is not mentioned as the cause of the remission of sins. Take Acts 10 for example where Peter is preaching to a gathering in Caesarea:

43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [ag]message. 45 All the [ah]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.



In verse 43 Peter makes no mention of baptism as effecting remission of sins but explicitly cites faith as the vessel. This directly contradicts Acts 2:38 if baptism is the cause for the remission of sins. Secondly, the Holy Spirit fell upon them prior to their baptism which refutes that the giving of the HS only happens after baptism. Thirdly, verse 47 explains why one is baptized which involves the inability to refuse baptism once the Holy Spirit has been given. Furthermore, Peter compared the apostle's indwelling experience to the current indwelling experience calling it equal or identical.


Most Baptists hold to the reformation cry of salvation by faith alone. If baptism is necessary for the remission of sins then salvation is not by faith alone since it would also include baptism. Scripture is clear (Eph. 2) that salvation is by the grace of God through faith alone and that none of our works are included as necessary. Baptism is a work since it is a conscious work that we schedule, and do. We can boast about our baptism as I've seen many do.

 

[k4c]

Hi Ted,

The concept is not as cut and dry as you suggest. Please consider the following:

1. The Greek word εἰς (rendered in the translation that you posted as "for") has a large semantic range of meaning. Among the plethora of possible definitions are "for", "among", "because of", "in view of", "onto", "in", "into", etc. The word can easily be translated as "because of" since that is a proper translation of this verse that also fits the context.

2. The English word "for" also has a large range of meanings such as “in order to be", "become", "get", "have", "keep", “because of", "as the result of,” “with regard to”, etc. Again, one can read the verse to where "for" means "because of" or "as the result of". The context supports this translation as well. For example, if I say that I took two tylenol tablets for my fever I am obviously not saying that I took the tables in order to get the fever but that I took the tables because of my fever.

3. In many verses of scripture, baptism is not mentioned as the cause of the remission of sins. Take Acts 10 for example where Peter is preaching to a gathering in Caesarea:

43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [ag]message. 45 All the [ah]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.



In verse 43 Peter makes no mention of baptism as effecting remission of sins but explicitly cites faith as the vessel. This directly contradicts Acts 2:38 if baptism is the cause for the remission of sins. Secondly, the Holy Spirit fell upon them prior to their baptism which refutes that the giving of the HS only happens after baptism. Thirdly, verse 47 explains why one is baptized which involves the inability to refuse baptism once the Holy Spirit has been given. Furthermore, Peter compared the apostle's indwelling experience to the current indwelling experience calling it equal or identical.


Most Baptists hold to the reformation cry of salvation by faith alone. If baptism is necessary for the remission of sins then salvation is not by faith alone since it would also include baptism. Scripture is clear (Eph. 2) that salvation is by the grace of God through faith alone and that none of our works are included as necessary. Baptism is a work since it is a conscious work that we schedule, and do. We can boast about our baptism as I've seen many do.

Faith is pefected when it is accompanied by works.

James 2:21-21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

We also have to remember that there is a command by God to His ministers to baptize. So the one refusing to baptize and the one refusing to be baptized are not expressing a completed faith.

 

[Hentenza]

Faith is pefected when it is accompanied by works.

James 2:21-21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

We also have to remember that there is a command by God to His ministers to baptize. So the one refusing to baptize and the one refusing to be baptized are not expressing a completed faith.

Which does not address any part of my post. We've already discussed this brother.

BTW- Was Paul expressing an incomplete faith when he refused to baptize some in Corinth and told them that Jesus had not sent him to baptize but to preach the gospel?

 

[miamited]

Hi bear,

You asked: Was the thief on the cross baptized?

The Scriptures do not give us that information.

However, there is one telling statement that the thief makes that would certianly indicate that this was not his first encounter with the Lord.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Hi bear,

You asked: Was the thief on the cross baptized?

The Scriptures do not give us that information.

However, there is one telling statement that the thief makes that would certianly indicate that this was not his first encounter with the Lord.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

If the man was saved, believed in Christ for his salvation, and baptized, why did he revile the Lord while hanging on the cross (Matt 27:44, Mark 15:32)? It seems he was saved while hanging on the cross, not before, as evident by Luke's account.