Is baptism neccesary for salvation?

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by eldermike
Bible,


[Again, I beleive in obediance to God. Batisim is the right thing to do, no doubt about it. But as Jesus said, "you must be born of Water and Spirit = 2 births, totally consistent with being "born again". To be saved you must be born twice. Another reason for the significances of this text is this: I didn't control my first birth either.]

Blessings

 

Hi Mike,

1John 5:4-9  Can help answer what Jesus is talking about in John 3.

vs.4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even out faith.

vs.5 Who is be that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

vs.6 THIS IS HE THAT CAME BY WATER AND BLOOD, EVEN JESUS CHRIST; NOT BY WATER ONLY, BUT BY WATER AND BLOOD, AND IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS BECAUSE THE SPIRIT IS TRUTH.

vs.7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father , the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

vs.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

vs.9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God, which he testified of his Son.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by eldermike
Bible,

[We are all born of water. Jesus was talking about a second birth in answer to a question about being born more than once. "How can a man be born twice". Your first birth was water, your second is Spirit. We lived 9 months surrounded by water. We were all born of water naturally.

Again, I beleive in obediance to God. Batisim is the right thing to do, no doubt about it. But as Jesus said, "you must be born of Water and Spirit = 2 births, totally consistent with being "born again". To be saved you must be born twice. Another reason for the significances of this text is this: I didn't control my first birth either.]

Blessings

 

1Peter 1:22-2:1-2.

Peter tells us we have purified our souls in obeying the TRUTH through the Spirit.

vs.23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptiple, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.

Chpt.2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

Obeying the TRUTH is do what Jesus said in Mark 16:16, and what Peter said in Acts 2:38, and Ananias said in Acts 22:16.

The TRUTH is what makes us free John 8:32, the TRUTH is that baptism is for the remission of sins, this is what Peter told the people in Acts 2:38, and the Holy Spirit gave the TRUTH to him to preach.

We MUST preach and teach the whole counsel of God. Acts 20:27. 

When men teach that baptism is not necessary to be saved, they go against the counsel of God Luke 7:30

But the Pharisees and lawyers, rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being NOT BAPTIZED of him.

 

[eldermike]

Bible,

We just don't agree on this, and that is ok. Everything you posted supports my position using my teaching. It supports yours using yours.
Being not baptiized of Him is a batisim of Spirit, not water. But, we don't have to agree on this to be saved. Jesus saves.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by eldermike
Bible,


[Being not baptiized of Him is a batisim of Spirit, not water. But, we don't have to agree on this to be saved. Jesus saves.]

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

The Spirit baptism did not start until the day of Pentecost Acts 2:1-47.  

 

[eldermike]

LK 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

LK 7:29 (All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John. 30 But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)

LK 7:31 "To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? 32 They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other:

Yep, They were the church, John had prepared them, and they knew the words of Jesus and were then saved. John never claimed that He could save,,,,did he? Are you saying that John and Jesus are a team? John saved them? Or did John and Jesus do this together?

I said: your points support my belief as easily as they do yours. Praise God that we do not have to have all this right to be saved. Jesus saves

 

[The Bible is Right]

 [John never claimed that He could save,,,,did he? Are you saying that John and Jesus are a team? John saved them? Or did John and Jesus do this together? ]

What John did is prepare the people for Jesus,Matt 3:3.

These same people heard the gospel on the day of Pentecost and some obeyed the gospel then and were baptized for the remission of sins by the authority of Jesus Christ Matt 28:18, also read Acts 19:1-5 they were baptized with John's baptism, but it was no longer valid, then they had to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[eldermike]

AC 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

AC 19:3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

AC 19:4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

You added to this: "water" and the remission of sins. It's not there.

 

[The Bible is Right]

[

[You added to this: "water" and the remission of sins. It's not there.] [/B][/QUOTE]

It is inferred I didn't add anything to the written word.  If you notice Paul said nothing about repentence or confession did he?  But we know that we must repent of our sins to be saved and confess the name of Jesus.

Then back to the text, they were baptized, and then Paul laid hands on them.  Are you saying that the baptism is Holy Spirit baptism?

If you are, then why did Paul lay hands on them?

 

[eldermike]

What is actually there: "on hearing this they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus". Period. Paul then laid hands on them. All of this is fine. I had hands laid on me when I was ordained, twice now, we should do that. I was also baptized in water, we should do that. But, salvation is a gift given upon hearing and believing. The Spirit is the Helper, we can refuse help and often do but salvation has no return policy. IMHO

 

[The Bible is Right]

[But, salvation is a gift given upon hearing and believing. The Spirit is the Helper, we can refuse help and often do but salvation has no return policy. IMHO [/B]

]



Let's talk plain TRUTH.

DOES the bible say in Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins?  Yes or NO?

Does the bible say in Romans 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

Does newness of LIFE start before one is buried and raised from baptism according to Rom. 6:3-4? 

This is the TRUTH DO YOU AGREE?

 

[eldermike]

Yes, but not with water.

 

[eldermike]

You are cross posting, there are two subjects that you have taken into one. This is the right one for this discussion

 

[eldermike]

The issue isn't with words, it's with an understanding of the words. The words are there for both views. One view adds something to the work of the cross, the other dosn't add anything. Was the cross enough? Did it work? Sure it did. I can't do one thing to make God love me or accpet me any more or less than He did when He died on a cross for me. If I beleive, I am saved. That is the gift in a nutshell. The Bible is not a list of do's and don'ts, it's about God's plan to give me a way to be with Him and it's simple. Works doctrine is mans doing, period. God sent His Son to fix the problem. And He did.

I respect your beleifs, they are not mine. But you have every right to hold them. I gave you mine. Every scripture that causes you to do something to earn salvation, I will see differently.

Blessings

 

[LightBearer]

Acts 8:34-39
In answer the eunuch said to Philip: “I beg you, about whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about some other man?” Philip opened his mouth and, starting with this Scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus. Now as they were going over the road, they came to a certain body of water, and the eunuch said: “Look! A body of water; what prevents me from getting baptized?” With that he commanded the chariot to halt, and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. When they had come up out of the water, God’s spirit quickly led Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him anymore, for he kept going on his way rejoicing.

After accepting the truth about Jesus and becoming a believer and a desciple, water baptism followed according to the commands of Jesus at Matt 28: 19, 20. 

 

[eldermike]

Water baptisim I totally support, as an act of obediance ,and as an act of humility and expression of a changed heart.

Bottom line. Jesus died for a reason. The reason: I can not by any other means clean myself up enough to be in the presence of God. To add anything to His work on the cross, is to me, to reject that fact.

All of the changes in me are His work in me, not my work, or I could boast about it.

I beleive we should humble ourselves, believe He died for us, accept the gift of salvation, and then be baptized.

Blessings

 

[The Bible is Right]

[All of the changes in me are His work in me, not my work, or I could boast about it.

I beleive we should humble ourselves, believe He died for us, accept the gift of salvation, and then be baptized.]

Blessings [/B][/QUOTE]

 

What role do we play in being baptize?

Is it self induced or is something done to us?

 

[eldermike]

Our role: obey. It's something we do. It's an important thing, no less. I don't take obediance lightly.
I beleive that we invite Jesus into our hearts, and we can do that totally dry.


I stated my understanding of how we get to baptisim, what is yours?

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by eldermike
[God's plan to give me a way to be with Him and it's simple.]

Blessings [/B]

 

You mentioned God's plan gave you a way to be with him and it's simple, but let you don't believe his Son.

It is simple: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED!

Jesus said this NOT MAN!  This is the truth that must be obeyed by man.

vs.15 Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by The Bible is Right


 

You mentioned God's plan gave you a way to be with him and it's simple, but yet you don't believe his Son.

It is simple: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED!

Jesus said this NOT MAN!  This is the truth that must be obeyed by man.

vs.15 Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[The Bible is Right]

Originally posted by eldermike
Our role: .


[I stated my understanding of how we get to baptisim, what is yours? ]

 

I believe:

We must hear The Gospel Romans 10:17

We must believe the Gospel John 20:30-31

We must repent of our sins Luke 13:3,5

We must confess the name of Jesus Christ Matt 10:32

We must be buried with Christ in the watery grave of baptism Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19;Acts 2:38;Rom.6:3-4

Col 2:12-13 and many more.

And we must live faithful lives Rev.2:10!