how about a little FAQ about astral projection:
http :// w w w . mach1audio . com / out-ofobody / techniques / qa . htm
http :// w w w . mach1audio . com / out-ofobody / techniques / qa . htm
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Is astral projection moral? (from a christian perspective)
- Thread starter Teh Wiccan
- Start date
back to the morality issue... Would it be in the Christian perspective "playing God" to astral project? Someone mentioned something about just leaveing it up to God? Would it be questioning God's authority VS. exploring another dimention of His creation? I mean on one hand yes, there is the lazze-faire, "leave it be" aditude twards O.B.E. but on the other hand you have this whole other side to creation. Should we be content just to stay inside this dimension our whole physical life? BUT back on that original hand, God makes rules and limitations for a reason. So while i dont believe demonds can hurt those coverd in the blood of the Lamb [and i dont care what dimention or relm you're in, Jesus's blood is permanent, and when they look at you, all they can see is Christ and they are terrified of that] there could be other more spiritual and subconcious side effects to A.P. For example, causing your faith to become more gnostic, or mabey making your spirit out of sync with your normal sleep cycle. {i really dont know these for a fact, im just listing them as posibilities}
BTW just because those demonds dont present themselves like they do in "The Exorcist" dosent mean they arent the cause of your disturbances.
BTW i am right there with you {whoever said this} about Christianity having tons of "cool experiences", I mean HELLO!!! You have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe!
!!!!
oh and Nook Wolf thats awesome! and doesnt it just happen when you least expect it too?
BTW just because those demonds dont present themselves like they do in "The Exorcist" dosent mean they arent the cause of your disturbances.
BTW i am right there with you {whoever said this} about Christianity having tons of "cool experiences", I mean HELLO!!! You have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe!
!!!!oh and Nook Wolf thats awesome! and doesnt it just happen when you least expect it too?
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Well I don't think astral projection is something to be proven or disproven by the "come to my home town and show me what's going on" philosophy.
Tis true however, if anything can prove astral project to real places on earth, it should be verifiable by independent sources.
There is one source that comes to mind and it is really not totally full of double blind tests though it has some of those as well.
The Sense of Being Stared at: And Other Aspects of the Extended Mind by Rupert Sheldrake
It is a reasonable book about sixth sense observations, and while it does not address astral project as astral projection, it does cover some of things that astral projection seems to describe.
While it is a given that much of his book is a collection of other peoples' observation, I highly doubt the dishonesty of people in order to promote something as this. And even still, it does maintaim a fairly scientific mind about those and other observances.
Tis true however, if anything can prove astral project to real places on earth, it should be verifiable by independent sources.
There is one source that comes to mind and it is really not totally full of double blind tests though it has some of those as well.
The Sense of Being Stared at: And Other Aspects of the Extended Mind by Rupert Sheldrake
It is a reasonable book about sixth sense observations, and while it does not address astral project as astral projection, it does cover some of things that astral projection seems to describe.
While it is a given that much of his book is a collection of other peoples' observation, I highly doubt the dishonesty of people in order to promote something as this. And even still, it does maintaim a fairly scientific mind about those and other observances.
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It is hard to say whether something like this should be considered wrong for a Chrstian. The general rule of thumb is that a spiritualist or medium is not to be tolerated. Still, not totally knowing what it is really doing, it becomes harder to classify.
I would say that if it is doind what people say it is, then it shouldn't be practiced. If you're concerned about what "your guardian angel" or other specific being is saying, such things can be found out I believe by focusing in prayer or praying on to sleep on the issue.
I would say that if it is doind what people say it is, then it shouldn't be practiced. If you're concerned about what "your guardian angel" or other specific being is saying, such things can be found out I believe by focusing in prayer or praying on to sleep on the issue.
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I know it's been awhile since anyone replied to this, but I felt I had to say something.
I stumbled upon this site using Google; I'd typed in something like OBE Christian perspective. So here I am.
I don't know exactly what they are, but OBEs, astral projections, whatever you call them, are real. They happen to me frequently, much to my distress.
I suffer from sleep paralysis, which occurs when the mind becomes conscious while the body is still paralyzed during REM. It can be a pretty scary experience, but it happens to me so much that I've learned to mentally calm myself and slowly try to move a muscle or wait for them to start up on their own. In just about every study I've read, sleep paralyisis is something of a fertile breeding ground for OBEs.
This is not a question of are they real or aren't they: they are. When millions of people report the same sensations, fears, noises, experiences, etc., that's not exactly a coincidence. However, what is at question is the nature of the experience: Is it just another symptom of sleeping disorders? Is it a seizure, simply a medical condition that can be treated? Hallucination, or product of individuals with active imaginations? The "medical" definitions can go on and on.
However, the question that I think frightens us, especially Christians, is this:
If there is not a medical explanation, are there other astral planes, other dimensions that exist far beyond our normal perception? And if so, is it possible for us to travel to those planes?
I don't know what I believe. Someone posted something earlier that made me smile: You can always find "proof" to go along with what you want to belive. So yes, I've read tons of studies, personal accounts, and etc. But the only thing I can honestly believe is what happens to me almost every night when I go to sleep. Feelings of pure terror, or pure bliss, "dreams" that seem so real that I can smell, taste, and feel everything around me. Feeling like locked and untouched doors in my mind are finally being opened.
Usually, I have frightening experiences, horrible experiences. But last night was something so different that it prompted me to write.
I was swimming. With someone named Samuel, someone I couldn't see, but always felt near to me. He was a good person, of that I was certain. I asked him if I could call him Sam. He said okay. I came up for air, then held my breath and started swimming underwater. Then, someone said, "Breathe." So I did, without question. And it was amazing.
My body felt like it was shaking then, which is what happens during the onset of sleep paralysis, so I readied my mind to pull out of what I thought had been a dream and got ready to de-paralyze myself. Then, it was like I was in two places at once.
Since being in two places at once makes it pretty hard to describe what happened, let's just say, "What if someone was observing the situation?" Well, if someone was watching, they would have seen a girl lying in bed, and a ghostly looking version of that girl sinking back into her physical body, taking time to squeeze the water out of her hair, and turning around to smile at her body before finally going back in.
Then, I woke up, freaked out, and turned on my closet light.
I don't talk about this stuff to people, but I felt like I had to say something. I'm a normal college student, ex sorority girl from an upper-middle class home who isn't into goth stuff, dressing in all black, or wicca (not knocking it, btw, just trying to paint a picture) Anyways, this isn't something I wanted. But it happens to me. And since God created me, whatever it is that's happening to me and others who've had similar experiences, He knows what's goin' on. And I've just gotta trust that He'll handle it, in His time, His way.
I stumbled upon this site using Google; I'd typed in something like OBE Christian perspective. So here I am.
I don't know exactly what they are, but OBEs, astral projections, whatever you call them, are real. They happen to me frequently, much to my distress.
I suffer from sleep paralysis, which occurs when the mind becomes conscious while the body is still paralyzed during REM. It can be a pretty scary experience, but it happens to me so much that I've learned to mentally calm myself and slowly try to move a muscle or wait for them to start up on their own. In just about every study I've read, sleep paralyisis is something of a fertile breeding ground for OBEs.
This is not a question of are they real or aren't they: they are. When millions of people report the same sensations, fears, noises, experiences, etc., that's not exactly a coincidence. However, what is at question is the nature of the experience: Is it just another symptom of sleeping disorders? Is it a seizure, simply a medical condition that can be treated? Hallucination, or product of individuals with active imaginations? The "medical" definitions can go on and on.
However, the question that I think frightens us, especially Christians, is this:
If there is not a medical explanation, are there other astral planes, other dimensions that exist far beyond our normal perception? And if so, is it possible for us to travel to those planes?
I don't know what I believe. Someone posted something earlier that made me smile: You can always find "proof" to go along with what you want to belive. So yes, I've read tons of studies, personal accounts, and etc. But the only thing I can honestly believe is what happens to me almost every night when I go to sleep. Feelings of pure terror, or pure bliss, "dreams" that seem so real that I can smell, taste, and feel everything around me. Feeling like locked and untouched doors in my mind are finally being opened.
Usually, I have frightening experiences, horrible experiences. But last night was something so different that it prompted me to write.
I was swimming. With someone named Samuel, someone I couldn't see, but always felt near to me. He was a good person, of that I was certain. I asked him if I could call him Sam. He said okay. I came up for air, then held my breath and started swimming underwater. Then, someone said, "Breathe." So I did, without question. And it was amazing.
My body felt like it was shaking then, which is what happens during the onset of sleep paralysis, so I readied my mind to pull out of what I thought had been a dream and got ready to de-paralyze myself. Then, it was like I was in two places at once.
Since being in two places at once makes it pretty hard to describe what happened, let's just say, "What if someone was observing the situation?" Well, if someone was watching, they would have seen a girl lying in bed, and a ghostly looking version of that girl sinking back into her physical body, taking time to squeeze the water out of her hair, and turning around to smile at her body before finally going back in.
Then, I woke up, freaked out, and turned on my closet light.
I don't talk about this stuff to people, but I felt like I had to say something. I'm a normal college student, ex sorority girl from an upper-middle class home who isn't into goth stuff, dressing in all black, or wicca (not knocking it, btw, just trying to paint a picture) Anyways, this isn't something I wanted. But it happens to me. And since God created me, whatever it is that's happening to me and others who've had similar experiences, He knows what's goin' on. And I've just gotta trust that He'll handle it, in His time, His way.
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pmarquette
Well-Known Member
Truncate said : "Is astral projection possible? (from a scientific perspective."
Like Star Trek " beam me up / translate / assumption / astral projection "
there are a couple of Biblical examples :
Philip was caught up , after speaking to Candace's Eunuch and " translated " 20-30 miles down
the road .....
And Paul was caught up into the 3rd heaven .......
As was Enoch , Elijiah .....
the answer is the context , frame work , and application
within chrisendom ... no , of God
within wicken .. dubious , caution
or satanic setting ... demonic , wrong , evil
Like Star Trek " beam me up / translate / assumption / astral projection "
there are a couple of Biblical examples :
Philip was caught up , after speaking to Candace's Eunuch and " translated " 20-30 miles down
the road .....
And Paul was caught up into the 3rd heaven .......
As was Enoch , Elijiah .....
the answer is the context , frame work , and application
within chrisendom ... no , of God
within wicken .. dubious , caution
or satanic setting ... demonic , wrong , evil
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Dagna
Heathen
Miss Noella, if you are experiencing sleep paralysis, might I suggest going in for testing for Narcolepsy? I used to have the same thing, starting when I was in junior high. Very terrifying really because it would also include hallucinations. Turns out, sleep paralysis is an indicator of Narcolepsy, and sure enough, I have it. Since being diagnosed with it and being on medications, I haven't had any problems with it. Just a thought.
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Blissman
God is Truth- A. Einstein
On another BBS, (on a Physics forum), they had proposed that epileptic seizures were caused by drugs, which were self-induced, for the purpose of getting high. The poster had claimed that seizures were out of body experiences, and were called "K-holes". Yes,
indeed, we have black holes and K-holes. Teh Wiccan, do you want a K-hole?
indeed, we have black holes and K-holes. Teh Wiccan, do you want a K-hole?
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Dagna
Heathen
K-holes, as I know them, are caused by a person taking Ketamine. I don't know what they feel like, but from what I've seen they don't look like fun. Person just kind of stares off into space for hours on end. I would imagine that someone coming out of a seizure feels something remarkably similar...but why someone would purposely induce that sort of thing, I'll never know.
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Blissman
God is Truth- A. Einstein
WOW!! We have people here who know people whom were born in the 16th Century!! ASTRAL-SHMASTRAL ! We have out of century experiences!Truncate said:Just because many religions may believe/teach/state that something is true/right/wrong, it does not make it so.
Just ask anyone before the 16th century what shape the earth is.
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Just to help clear something up for you Christian's who are still wondering if Astral Projection let me share something with you. First of all i use to practice Astral Projection for a long time and it was a hard thing for me to give up at first i thought it was ok and continued to do it after i was a Christian. First let me share with you a scripture.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If you dont know basically Astral Projection is basically done by your Mind (soul) controlling your Spirit, clearing God is suppose to be in complete control of our sprit not ourselves. I personally beleive that Astral projection posable by a demonic link from your soul to your spirit. Now weather you beleive that or not is up to you but still the scripture clearly speaks for it self that are soul and spirit are to be separated, therefore Astral Projection is not a good thing to practice. I do however bleive that God could initiate you to have an Out of Body Experience but in that case you in no way shape or form would be initiating it.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
If you dont know basically Astral Projection is basically done by your Mind (soul) controlling your Spirit, clearing God is suppose to be in complete control of our sprit not ourselves. I personally beleive that Astral projection posable by a demonic link from your soul to your spirit. Now weather you beleive that or not is up to you but still the scripture clearly speaks for it self that are soul and spirit are to be separated, therefore Astral Projection is not a good thing to practice. I do however bleive that God could initiate you to have an Out of Body Experience but in that case you in no way shape or form would be initiating it.
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What is the difference in some of what you described as astral projection and what some describes in a near death experience? People who have a near death experience can sometimes describe walking down the hall or being at the top of a room looking down at their bodies on the bed or seeing the car crash and seeing the cop pull the sheet over their face. The spirit still left but later returned. Also how can you tell the difference in if a person was abused and was like on the outside of themself and watch3ed the abuse happen but not feel it. Or a child consentrate on looking at a crack in the wall during abuse and leave her body in a way, does she float to the top of the ceiling or just in a NDE. What is the difference in all this and is Astral Projection always intentional?
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ydouxist
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A friend of mine use to practice TM. It reached the point where he'd leave his body even when he wasn't trying. He was no longer in control. He has since become a mesianic minister and no longer practices it.
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There is an old formula I encountered in a book (The Pursuit of Holiness, by Jerry Bridges) which teaches to ask 4 questions based on 3 verses (1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Corinthians 8:13, 1 Corinthians 10:31).
#1 Does it help me and/or others physically, spiritually, and mentally?
#2 Will it master me (or, will it have control over me)?
#3 Does it cause others harm?
#4 Does it bring glory to God?
I used my own words.
Anywho, I'm content with the ways I'm growing in God right now, (communication/submission and such). I think any benefits of astral projection cannot come even close to the kind of grace that God gives us when we come to his throne of grace. Hebrews 4:16
Therefore, I'm satisfied with the blueprint for my life that God has given my in his Word. Period.
-Thwingly
#1 Does it help me and/or others physically, spiritually, and mentally?
#2 Will it master me (or, will it have control over me)?
#3 Does it cause others harm?
#4 Does it bring glory to God?
I used my own words.
Anywho, I'm content with the ways I'm growing in God right now, (communication/submission and such). I think any benefits of astral projection cannot come even close to the kind of grace that God gives us when we come to his throne of grace. Hebrews 4:16
Therefore, I'm satisfied with the blueprint for my life that God has given my in his Word. Period.
-Thwingly
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Lillithspeak
The Umbrella
Sounds like none of you remember Jesus saying of the wonders that he performed, that each was able to do the same as he was. So, astral projection isn't odd at all. Neither are near death experiences, the slowing of time, precognition, having dreams come true, and other different aspects of human consciousness. We are all able to experience all of them, some folks spend some time increasing their skill at it, some run away screaming and think the devil (lol) is going to get them, but in any case, it's just a part of what we can do. We only use 10% of our brain, ever wonder what the other 90% is there for? And why do you worry about other dimensions, of course their are other dimensions, science has described the fourth dimension already and we'll know of more in the future. Do you think we possibly know of all that exists? No way, we are infants in our exploration of all that is.
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You people are making me feel just a tad bit sick to my stomach. Being someone who has had numerous OBEs, I can say that it isn't evil or anything. Even if you people say it IS a seizure, then perhaps the seizure is what triggers the release of the astral self. A physical mark of a spiritual experience. And I'd like people to stop dissing all of this stuff in their fear of the unknown. I'm a Christian, but dislike organized religions for a reason clearly demonstrated in these columns: the close-mindedness that they teach you. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's evil.
And for all you saying that the Bible says it's wrong (and magick is evil and clairvoyance is evil etc.), I would like to kindly remind you that your Bible did not drop from the sky. While there may have been divine influence behind it, it was ultimately man who put the words down on paper, and man cannot even come close to comprehending God.
Much Love all you Happy People! ^.^
And for all you saying that the Bible says it's wrong (and magick is evil and clairvoyance is evil etc.), I would like to kindly remind you that your Bible did not drop from the sky. While there may have been divine influence behind it, it was ultimately man who put the words down on paper, and man cannot even come close to comprehending God.
Much Love all you Happy People! ^.^
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I am Christian, as is my friend, and she has OBEs. From what she's told me, there is nothing evil or bad about this. If you believe that God created the world from nothing, He would also have created the Astral Plane; man could never have done such a thing. I had an OBE without knowing it- I didn't even know my friend at this point so there were no influences on me. If God made it, can it truly be bad? I also agree with Morning Star on her point that in the end, humans translated and wrote down the Bible. Can we have changed it from its original purpose without knowing?
Ah well, I see nothing wrong with Astral Planes, OBEs or the like. Can we just ask a Pastor?
Ah well, I see nothing wrong with Astral Planes, OBEs or the like. Can we just ask a Pastor?
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There are many interesting points brought up in this thread.
1st of all, I too would be interested in what the person's source was for the experiment that debunked OBE.
One of the things I noticed is someone referring to the scriptures that refer to sorceresses (sp?) and also witches (although not specifically mentioned, it is implied). If you read many of those scriptures carefully and in context, it becomes apparent that the "witch" or "sorceress" being referred to is not someone who does drugs or "magic". It is, how shall I say, a woman of loose morals. The equivalent of a seductress.
There have been multitudes of non believers in OBE that have had experiences. Many were able to describe distant places and times with the utmost accuracy.
If OBE does exist, it is a gift from God. I have spoken to many people who believe that psychic abilities, OBE and the lot are "demonic". But how can one argue that when the person is using it in a good and positive way? When someone has a premonition that they will have a car accident, and then they do, shouldn't they have listened to that? Wouldn't that have been positive? Or are demons trying to help us now? When someone sees a tarot reader who advises them to end a relationship, and later they find out the person killed their next girlfriend, are demons at work?
Who here believes we were created in God's image? Do you think it refers to physical image only? Is it perceivable that if we were created in God's image, and God has extraordinary powers, that we would have a sprinkle of those as well? Just because we are not on the same level as God, does not mean that we are completely devoid of anything that now would be considered "mystical". For the hundred thousand years or whatever that people have been on the earth, people took it for granted that we had an amount of power within us. But now that science has become so many people's god, we have the egotistical notion that our minds are the only real thing of value.
Science is flawed. It always has been. In every generation there are certain things that humans believe is too sci fi to ever happen. Even now people say, "well this whole thing about colonizing Mars is fiction". Well, a hundred years ago people said the same thing about ever going into space. When you were a kid, or even a young adult depending on how old you are, did you think it was possible to clone a living being? Well, it has happened. The things we firmly believe are impossible and "Star Treky" often come to pass. Speaking of Star Trek, the whole "Beam me up Scotty" is total fiction too right? Australia recently announced, this May I believe, that they have successfully teleported information using quantum physics. Eventually, the internet may become teleportation based and no one will need DSL.
I wonder about many of the things people say are impossible. Unicorns for example. What is so weird about a horse with a horn? Other animals have horns. Maybe they couldn't make themselves invisible as some believe, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. How is it so weird? Atlantis. Is there a reason why a city named Atlantis couldn't have existed? People pass jokes about "Beach front property in Arizona", it is even in a song, but the Painted Desert was caused by ocean water. But now if you ask someone, it is impossible.
The realm of possibility is greater than our minds can imagine at any given time. But every new generation believes that the world they live in and the possibilities they are aware of is all there is and all there ever will be. And each generation is proven wrong in their egotism.
I am not putting anyone down, I am just saying maybe think about expanding your minds and accept the "impossible". We don't know everything.
Selena
1st of all, I too would be interested in what the person's source was for the experiment that debunked OBE.
One of the things I noticed is someone referring to the scriptures that refer to sorceresses (sp?) and also witches (although not specifically mentioned, it is implied). If you read many of those scriptures carefully and in context, it becomes apparent that the "witch" or "sorceress" being referred to is not someone who does drugs or "magic". It is, how shall I say, a woman of loose morals. The equivalent of a seductress.
There have been multitudes of non believers in OBE that have had experiences. Many were able to describe distant places and times with the utmost accuracy.
If OBE does exist, it is a gift from God. I have spoken to many people who believe that psychic abilities, OBE and the lot are "demonic". But how can one argue that when the person is using it in a good and positive way? When someone has a premonition that they will have a car accident, and then they do, shouldn't they have listened to that? Wouldn't that have been positive? Or are demons trying to help us now? When someone sees a tarot reader who advises them to end a relationship, and later they find out the person killed their next girlfriend, are demons at work?
Who here believes we were created in God's image? Do you think it refers to physical image only? Is it perceivable that if we were created in God's image, and God has extraordinary powers, that we would have a sprinkle of those as well? Just because we are not on the same level as God, does not mean that we are completely devoid of anything that now would be considered "mystical". For the hundred thousand years or whatever that people have been on the earth, people took it for granted that we had an amount of power within us. But now that science has become so many people's god, we have the egotistical notion that our minds are the only real thing of value.
Science is flawed. It always has been. In every generation there are certain things that humans believe is too sci fi to ever happen. Even now people say, "well this whole thing about colonizing Mars is fiction". Well, a hundred years ago people said the same thing about ever going into space. When you were a kid, or even a young adult depending on how old you are, did you think it was possible to clone a living being? Well, it has happened. The things we firmly believe are impossible and "Star Treky" often come to pass. Speaking of Star Trek, the whole "Beam me up Scotty" is total fiction too right? Australia recently announced, this May I believe, that they have successfully teleported information using quantum physics. Eventually, the internet may become teleportation based and no one will need DSL.
I wonder about many of the things people say are impossible. Unicorns for example. What is so weird about a horse with a horn? Other animals have horns. Maybe they couldn't make themselves invisible as some believe, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. How is it so weird? Atlantis. Is there a reason why a city named Atlantis couldn't have existed? People pass jokes about "Beach front property in Arizona", it is even in a song, but the Painted Desert was caused by ocean water. But now if you ask someone, it is impossible.
The realm of possibility is greater than our minds can imagine at any given time. But every new generation believes that the world they live in and the possibilities they are aware of is all there is and all there ever will be. And each generation is proven wrong in their egotism.
I am not putting anyone down, I am just saying maybe think about expanding your minds and accept the "impossible". We don't know everything.
Selena
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