Is Allah = Yahweh ?

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Yet this thread is not about linguistics. It is about the substance of the matter, not simply the form. Allah is not YHWH. Allah is a pagan, carnal, deity of salvation by works. YHWH is a spiritual God of salvation by grace.

It's about both. The technicality is that, linguistically, they are the same thing.

 

[Inkfingers]

It's about both. The technicality is that, linguistically, they are the same thing.

Erm, no they are not the same thing.

"Allah" means "the God".

YHWH means "He who IS".

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Erm, no they are not the same thing.

"Allah" means "the God".

YHWH means "He who IS".

You're missing the point entirely. We don't call "God" YHWH. Linguistically, "Allah" performs the same function in Arabic that "God" does in English. Would you tell an Arabic-speaking Christian that they don't believe in God because their proper pronoun for him is, linguistically, Allah?

 

[Inkfingers]

You're missing the point entirely. We don't call "God" YHWH.

This thread is about YHWH vs Allah.

Linguistically, "Allah" performs the same function in Arabic that "God" does in English.

I have not said otherwise.

Would you tell an Arabic-speaking Christian that they don't believe in God because their proper pronoun for him is, linguistically, Allah?

I would say they are being unhelpful because they are implying that the Christian God and the Islamic god are the same being, when they are clearly not.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

I would say they are being unhelpful because they are implying that the Christian God and the Islamic god are the same being, when they are clearly not.

Right, so, an Arabic-speaking Christian (or Jew) using the term "Allah" (which was used by Christians and Jews in Arabic-speaking diasporas of these religions before Muslims existed and stole the term), is being unhelpful when it's their native term.

 

[Inkfingers]

Right, so, an Arabic-speaking Christian (or Jew) using the term "Allah" (which was used by Christians and Jews in Arabic-speaking diasporas of these religions before Muslims existed and stole the term), is being unhelpful when it's their native term.

Yes.

Just as someone using Baal to denote God or Jesus (Baal meaning lord) would be misleading in such use, even if it is the usual term in their language.

What part of this is so difficult to understand?

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Yes.

Just as someone using Baal to denote God or Jesus (Baal meaning lord) would be misleading in such use, even if it is the usual term in their language.

What part of this is so difficult to understand?

So, you're saying that Arabic-speaking Christians should just stop using the term Allah, even when speaking in their native tongue? :o

 

[Inkfingers]

So, you're saying that Arabic-speaking Christians should just stop using the term Allah, even when speaking in their native tongue? :o

It would be best to do so, yes, to void confusion with the Islamic deity.

 

[ebia]

That's because it means "the god".

So its an easy word to use when we use the word "God".

The problem is that it implies that the Islamic deity and the Christian one are the same being, when they are not. The Islamic god offers a depraved "paradise" where the women are the sex slaves of men (and regenerate their virginity after each such encounter). The Christian God offers a chaste heaven where men and women are equal.

The idea that these are the same being is simply unfounded.

Since most modern Christians have a view of heaven that has little to do with the hope offered by YHWH, on that logic we would have to say that most Christians aren't worshipping YHWH either.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

It would be best to do so, yes, to void confusion with the Islamic deity.

I disagree; using "Allah" is part of their linguistic and cultural heritage.

 

[m423156]

First of all, it is FALSE that Allah is the general word for God in Arabic. It is NOT the generic word for deity. It is a proper name and always was.

And if that implies that millions of people are wrong, then let the chips fall where they may.

Allah is a word much like BAAL. It could be argued that BAAL is just the general word for the Lord. That is the same argument that was used to call IHVH BAAL when the northern kingdoms went astray at Bethel. That is the EXACT kind of syncretism that did it.

IHVH was the same as the ADONAI was the same as BAAL. They were all blended, all syncretised and thus BAAL worship slowly replaced IHVH worship while even being done in the name of IHVH.

It is the same with Allah. Allah is known to be the name of the Meccan moon idol. That is where Mohammed got it. It was a jinn demonic sorcerer and used Allah moon magic. It was his specific aim to syncretise the Bible with Meccan moon paganism all under the banner of Allah. This is exactly what has always happened in syncretism. He was a thief, a liar, a plunderer, a murderer, and a sorcerer.

Furthermore, the general word for godhead, divinity, and deity in Arabic is ألوهية, not Allah.

And if that disturbs people, they are just going to have to be disturbed. Christianity has nothing to do with respecting anyone's cultural or linguistic heritage, it has everything to do with turning the world upside down and transforming it. Just because a culture may worship BAAL does not at all imply that I have to be sensitive to their cultural and linguistic heritage pertaining to spiritual matters. I'm here to change and revolutionize, not get along with the pagan status quo of dusty centuries past.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

First of all, it is FALSE that Allah is the general word for God in Arabic. It is NOT the generic word for deity. It is a proper name and always was.

And if that implies that millions of people are wrong, then let the chips fall where they may.

Allah is a word much like BAAL. It could be argued that BAAL is just the general word for the Lord. That is the same argument that was used to call IHVH BAAL when the northern kingdoms went astray at Bethel. That is the EXACT kind of syncretism that did it.

IHVH was the same as the ADONAI was the same as BAAL. They were all blended, all syncretised and thus BAAL worship slowly replaced IHVH worship while even being done in the name of IHVH.

It is the same with Allah. Allah is known to be the name of the Meccan moon idol. That is where Mohammed got it. It was a jinn demonic sorcerer and used Allah moon magic. It was his specific aim to syncretise the Bible with Meccan moon paganism all under the banner of Allah. This is exactly what has always happened in syncretism.

Furthermore, the general word for godhead, divinity, and deity in Arabic is ألوهية, not Allah.

And if that disturbs people, they are just going to have to be disturbed. Christianity has nothing to do with respecting anyone's cultural or linguistic heritage, it has everything to do with turning the world upside down and transforming it.

The term "Allah" was used by Christian Arabs WELL before Islam. Why should they stop now?

 

[m423156]

The term "Allah" was used by Christian Arabs WELL before Islam. Why should they stop now?

Prove it.

Give their quotes and I'll consider it.

I want source texts.

I want to know which ones used Allah and where.

So let's have it.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

I'm going from a) dealing with Christian Arabs and b) taking four semesters of Arabic.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Anyway, read this.

The word Allah and Islam

 

[m423156]

I'm going from a) dealing with Christian Arabs and b) taking four semesters of Arabic.

Ok, well let me tell you what I'm going on. I'm going on having an M.Div and being quite well read as to the Meccan prehistory of Islam.

So you had better bring something to the table better than both a and b.

Because that doesn't work.

We're going to need actual evidence, not just rumor.

If it is true, this ancient Arab usage by Arab Christians, it shouldn't be difficult to prove, should it?

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

The whole Allah = "Moon God" thing is pretty much not born out by scholarly work, so I don't even know why you're using it. It's pretty much Evangelical propaganda.

 

[m423156]

The whole Allah = "Moon God" thing is pretty much not born out by scholarly work, so I don't even know why you're using it. It's pretty much Evangelical propaganda.

Ok, well that may or may not be the case, however, that doesn't do anything to prove or demonstrate your thesis.

As of yet, your words and arguments are simply opinion and hearsay. You haven't presented anything of substance to actually prove it. You've just said things like 'I have four semesters of Arabic' as if that means something. Great, I have 6 semesters of classical Greek. That doesn't really do anything for our topic, though.

I'm going to need to see this theoretical ancient Christian evidence for the usage of Allah.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Ok, well that may or may not be the case, however, that doesn't do anything to prove or demonstrate your thesis.

As of yet, your words and arguments are simply opinion and hearsay. You haven't presented anything of substance to actually prove it. You've just said things like 'I have four semesters of Arabic' as if that means something. Great, I have 6 semesters of classical Greek. That doesn't really do anything for our topic, though.

I'm going to need to see this theoretical ancient Christian evidence for the usage of Allah.

It proves that I know more about Arabic than you do; Allah is an Arabic contraction of "al-" (the) and "ilah" (god) -- which literally then means "the God". It's found in Arab-speaking Christian texts in the eighth century; it's found in ninth-century translations of the Bible and Torah. This suggests that it was used prior to that. And anyway, I'm correct that the "Moon God" theory is disproven, so why would you bring up an incorrect argument? That's just dishonest.

 

[m423156]

It proves that I know more about Arabic than you do; Allah is an Arabic contraction of "al-" (the) and "ilah" (god) -- which literally then means "the God". It's found in Arab-speaking Christian texts in the eighth century; it's found in ninth-century translations of the Bible and Torah. This suggests that it was used prior to that. And anyway, I'm correct that the "Moon God" theory is disproven, so why would you bring up an incorrect argument? That's just dishonest.

No, what it shows is that you know how to go through a modern textbook and modern linquistics classroom for 4 semesters. That[s wonderful. Millions of other people do that every day. We'll learn Northern Hazteca together if you wish just to prove that we both can.

That however does not do anything to demonstrate that Arabic Christians before Islam used Allah as the general word for the Christian or Jewish deity.

If you want to play 'I know more Arabic than you do' games, then I can assure you that Syed Kamran Mizra knows far more than you do.

So read.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm