Is a skeptic missing the compassionate part of their being, while only focusing on logic?

[createdtoworship]

I wanted to add this as well, skepticism is rising and christianity is lessening....

According to a recent Pew poll (see below for all my references), between 2009 and 2019, Christianity lost 11 million members in the US alone, dropping from 77% of the adult population to just 65%. That’s well over ONE MILLION people per year who have left Christianity in the US alone! And of course along with the precipitous loss of Christians, THOUSANDS of churches are closing every year.
Meanwhile, the religiously unaffiliated—including atheists, agnostics and “nothing in particular”—have been expanding at an even greater rate. During the same 2009 to 2019 period, they grew by 29 million people, going from 17% of the US adult population to 26%. That’s an increase of almost THREE MILLION nonbelievers per year! The religiously unaffiliated now represent the largest religious category, just barely above evangelicals and Catholics.
Apparently non-Christians hold increasingly negative views on evangelicals in particular, rating them highest in the categories of narrow-minded, homophobic, uptight, invasive, misogynistic and racist, and lowest in caring, hopeful, friendly, generous and good-humored. Interestingly, Americans who are neither atheists nor evangelicals on average agree slightly more with atheists on social issues than they do with evangelicals.
I thought I would update you on some statistics....
January 2019 's Religion & Public Life Project 0/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
Five Key Findings on Religion in the U.S.
Exodus: Why Americans are Leaving Religion—and Why They’re Unlikely to Come Back | PRRI
U.S. Adults See Evangelicals Through a Political Lens - Barna Group
Which Group Represents the Political Views of the Average American- Nones or White Evangelicals?
'Nones’ now as big as evangelicals, Catholics in the US
The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
above quote found in comments section of one of my favorite blogs of a 7th day adventist (who I disagree on some theology, but agree on his apologetics).
Evangelism: Are we preaching what the early church preached?

 

[createdtoworship]

Belligerence, and hostility are human flaws not limited to any group; nobody is immune to such behavior. I’m sure as a Christian you’ve run into plenty of skeptics with these flaws, and as a skeptic I’ve run into many Christians with these flaws.

The point is the our world view affects us. What motivates a skeptic to be nice. A christian has divine motivation from commands of scripture. an athiest has no such rules.

 

[createdtoworship]

I think that you are projecting your limitations onto atheists.

if that is the case prove it with quotes from the OP please so we can discuss this. I can say you are projecting your views by disagreeing with the OP. So it doesn't realy matter how we throw projection terms around, but how we back it up.

 

[createdtoworship]

Right. Let's pull this apart. Bit by bit.

"Twitter". Trouble spot. President Trump doesn't know what he's doing there and you don't know what you are doing there.

Now that you are there, a woman mocked your theism. What does that amount to?

Why not use humour? And the briefer the better.

Why not allude to elements of the discussion being on different bases and then refrain from elaborating.

Now we get to the reddest flag bit. You have no reason to say you hope she will be open to talking about it - it's presumptuous. I'm on her side 100%. You have no reason to say you love her as a human being. That's totally creepy! No it ISN'T "totally nice"!

If you had weilded "being a christian" she is 100% entitled to claim to generalise, she knows that's what she is doing. And no it isn't pride. How offbeam you are in going behind her back to hold her up as an example of that!

Oh yes and she's not bitter AND she's logical as well as intuitive and compassionate.

You use the word "calibrate" but you don't understand in relationships that you is not them and you and them is not us, or what makes a skeptic a skeptic.

Please study how BIG logic is.

Please study how compassion is almost always cool and reserved.

Slow down and think more! Draw diagrams! Look words up in more than one dictionary, especially the lengthy ones!

Brains are individual and we can all invent good management, over time. I can only tell you this this week because I put the effort in. Life is heavy duty for everyone.

If you can't tell anyone anything useful about theism, God doesn't require you to try, please comment on this point.

You come over strongly as a People Pleaser and a brownie point hunter (which God has no doubt stopped doling out to you) and that you will never manage to square anything with anybody. Please research this dangerous trait for the good of your health and the world's.

And the answer to perseverating is, break off abruptly, smile at yourself and get back to all the rest of your hobbies. How few hobbies have you got? This is an ethical and moral matter!

I sincerely hope you don't use a screen name similar in tone to "created to worship" which isn't an individual. If you said "Bongo worshipper" that is less of a problem because not many people worship that god, a stray one can be known as that. Not saying what you worship looks like a begged question, implying there is supposed to be a superior answer.

Do you come from a pushy and shallow denomination?

Please attend to your individuality.

you are sort of proving my OP by using terms and language that is not loving, you automatically set me up as the enemy. In the OP I try to explain why you are bitter as to find a solution to the problem, I never blamed you for it. And yet here you just sound bitter, and become an example of the OP.

 

[createdtoworship]

I had traumas in classes and have had to make up my deficits in oblique ways.

When I found out about my own specific learning differences, including my own ADD, I was overjoyed to embrace a wonderful book:

You mean I'm not lazy, stupid or crazy

by Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo

pubd 1993

Fireside edition 1996

It's chock full of insights & hints on all subjects.

I for one understand limitations, workarounds do take creativity. When we are short of energy, we should slow down. Then "your logical arguments" will gain better logic. Don't forget logic is big.

Look for the layers in things, develop spatial thinking.

thanks sir. I can't even read a book. I have severe ADD. I have read maybe two books cover to cover in my life. other than the Bible. I have read that three times, and going a forth. But I am extremely motivated to read it. While things like english grammar books, I would rather do anything other than read that, or history. But I do have a very complex way to convert kindle books and other ebooks to audio. I read about two books a month for a few years the last past two or three years. But then I stoppe reading all together and only read the Bible. Thanks for the book I will check it out, we homeschool our kids and they also have learning disabilities too.

 

[createdtoworship]

I've got interested in the sciences, again. Now there are lots of discussions in books I found, second hand, in charity shops, and in books I borrowed at the library (I'm learning to take notes), about the origins of life forms and the origins of the universe, the nature of time, and the like. There is a lot of discussion about the propensity of matter to unfurl in certain ways. You could major on the hypotheses of different authors and then point out, as if of little relevance, that incidentally some theists thought it accorded with their view. God wouldn't and doesn't approve of more. He is not supported thereby!

Don't jump guns. The wonders of science are the wonders of science. They have to be appreciated for themselves.

God wants you to represent you, not Him, then eventually you will show that the fact that you are you is important to Him.

God wants you to represent science (to the degree you are familiar with it), then eventually it will appear science is important to Him.

Acting like a cipher in the name of God confirms that God is only interested in ciphers.

Right. Everyone is freely emotional at all times, your debating partners AND you. It's not logical of you to rationalise your illogic and then pinning it on the others.

It took me a lifetime of pain to gain confidence in my personality and individuality.

Thanks for the post, GBY.

 

[Amittai]

thanks sir. I can't even read a book. I have severe ADD. I have read maybe two books cover to cover in my life. other than the Bible. I have read that three times, and going a forth. But I am extremely motivated to read it. While things like english grammar books, I would rather do anything other than read that, or history. But I do have a very complex way to convert kindle books and other ebooks to audio. I read about two books a month for a few years the last past two or three years. But then I stoppe reading all together and only read the Bible. Thanks for the book I will check it out, we homeschool our kids and they also have learning disabilities too.

I felt terrible giving you a "wall of posts". My browser makes me goggle eyed and I didn't spot about your ADD till after I'd posted some of the others. I have prayed that the healing prayers, as a result of which I was put in touch with remedial information for my SpLDs (a healing no-one had in mind), will extend to you & your family.

I don't read a book through, I read from the back toward the front, or pages at random.

I agree you do have love for all.

 

[Ophiolite]

Compassion motivates a debate, scepticism informs it.

 

[Larniavc]

I debate, and when I debate I have to separate from my emotional side, in order to be logical. That means that posts are factual, yes, but lack compassion.

You describe in yourself what you ascribe to atheists and have yet to provide evidence that this is a common failing in atheists.

 

[Ken-1122]

The point is the our world view affects us. What motivates a skeptic to be nice. A christian has divine motivation from commands of scripture. an athiest has no such rules.

You seem to be assuming atheism to me is like Christianity is for you. This is a mistake lots of Christians make. Christianity is not just a religion for most believers, it is a worldview! It offers answers and responses to loss, death, tragedy, inequality, injustice and a host of other things we deal with in life. Atheism takes all of that away and offers nothing in return. Now this doesn’t mean Atheists don’t have a way to deal with those things, it just means Atheism is not the method we employ when dealing with those things; because atheism is not a world view. So don’t assume we have no motivation to be nice or follow the rules, there are countless other reasons to do the right thing and be nice other than “Because God said so”. Does this make sense to you? If not tell me where you think I’ve gone wrong.

 

[Ophiolite]

I wanted to add this as well, skepticism is rising and christianity is lessening....

It took me until this post for me to realise that you were using "skeptic" in a very restricted sense. To me, and to the world at large, a sceptic (my preferred spelling) is one who seeks evidence on which to build a worldview, to make a decision, or to form a judgement. You use it to refer to someone who doubts Christianity. It would have been very helpful if you had made that clear at the outset.

The skeptic however has blocked out the compassionate part of him or her all together. And only think logic. And this is why they are typically mocking other and are rude.

Many who doubt Christianity, frankly, do so with no good reason. Their disbelief is arrived at as casually and illogically as is the belief of some of those who believe. Contrary to your claim those sceptics are devoid of logic. They are not true sceptics.

I agree that some non-believers can be rude and some may resort to mocking. However, this certainly does not apply to all, or - from what I have seen - any significant number. In many instances the rudeness emerges after being goaded by aggressive or hateful comments from believers.

But in debate, when I debated only heart....I would lose the debates on technicalities, little logical errors I made. So then I reverted back to being logical, but now I lack the heart. I wish there was some way to do both.

This is clearly a significant problem for you. This does not mean it is a problem for everyone. What we say should be motivated by our logic. How we say it should be guided by our compassion.

yes sir I already apologized for the WOT in the OP. But I wanted to let you know that Jesus loves you and He is not shocked by your past, and only desires to give you a future full of hope and peace.

If you engage your compassion for a moment you may see that your second sentence could be seen as patronising.

you guys are case and point, perfect examples of the OP. Just humor me and read it, I know that it's really hard to lower yourself and read a monograph that has no indentions, grammatical, and spelling mistakes, but just humor me. But you are a perfect illustration of what I am talking about.

How about you show a bit of compassion and humour us, by making the effort to insert paragraphs. Now you may feel that remark of mine is rude. I remind you that making a post as long and unformatted as your OP is both rude and arrogant. If I lacked compassion I would remain silent and allow you to continue making mistakes that will isolate you and your message.

See my last post and the OP I spent quite a bit of time developing that. That is why the OP is so long.

Mark Twain reportedly wrote an eight page letter to a friend that ended with these words: "I intended to write you a two page letter, but I didn't have time."
The point being that to write concisely requires editing. Failure to edit is excusable when writing to a friend, less so when you ask a stranger to invest their time in your thoughts.

The point is the our world view affects us. What motivates a skeptic to be nice. A christian has divine motivation from commands of scripture. an athiest has no such rules.

Just for your future information, that is simultaneously wrong and offensive.

you are sort of proving my OP by using terms and language that is not loving, you automatically set me up as the enemy. In the OP I try to explain why you are bitter as to find a solution to the problem, I never blamed you for it. And yet here you just sound bitter, and become an example of the OP.

This was in response to a poster who was being simultaneously compassionate and logical. You might want to reflect on that.

 

[Amittai]

... But in debate, when I debated only heart....I would lose the debates on technicalities, little logical errors I made. So then I reverted back to being logical, but now I lack the heart. I wish there was some way to do both.

Thank you for asking for help.

You don't lack heart but you were doing it too gushingly.

Compassion is generally cool and understated. Logic itself (the big version) IS compassion.

I used to have the paragraph problem.

For now, just put a gap between every two sentences. In a few weeks, use the pointer to allocate sentences to different paragraphs by theme. I learned it that way. Most of us only do it roughly.

Interaction is very alarming. I used to be literally in pain from self consciousness and trying to admit results of my intellectual efforts (probably why I couldn't submit written work when a student). I talked little till my late 20s.

For me, a little (intrusion, sensation etc) goes a long way. It's worth remembering that for debaters on science, a little emotion from other participants goes a long way too.

It's only quite recently (at age 64) I have been moderately articulate.

I want to say how I admire your interest in many wonderful topics.

I worry about the kind of religion being enforced upon you. It reminds me of my young day when certain people said I had to "go witnessing" every day. Apart from spoiling one good friendship, I disobeyed!

At one stage I was fortunate that my workplace had a coach. One of her favourite instructions was that we "chunk it down". I had never done anything in one go and either people shamed me, or my low achievement caused inconvenience. Now I am not ashamed to use step by step approaches.

 

[Amittai]

You seem to be assuming atheism to me is like Christianity is for you. This is a mistake lots of Christians make. Christianity is not just a religion for most believers, it is a worldview! It offers answers and responses to loss, death, tragedy, inequality, injustice and a host of other things we deal with in life. Atheism takes all of that away and offers nothing in return. Now this doesn’t mean Atheists don’t have a way to deal with those things, it just means Atheism is not the method we employ when dealing with those things; because atheism is not a world view. So don’t assume we have no motivation to be nice or follow the rules, there are countless other reasons to do the right thing and be nice other than “Because God said so”. Does this make sense to you? If not tell me where you think I’ve gone wrong.

That's like what I intuited when I was planning to go a "sort of" agnostic but it's extra good to have it so well spelled out.

In my young day the pillars of society were of your sort and very friendly.

(There is nowadays another sort of atheist and you don't seem to be one of those.)

 

[loveofourlord]

I can't read that or even tell if you mean skeptic or atheist, but I will assume skeptic as it's what you say. So me a lot of skepticism is about compassion, maybe not in how they word it, but I find too often compassion and emotions are the weapons the non skeptical side will use. look at the feel good stories in the news all the time about families putting together money for some 'miracle' cancer cure, but nothing in the story about the fact that no evidence it works, but a ton of evidence that those that go tehre die alone and such.

Or many other things that people use to con others, I think a lot of the naysayers side is about compassiion and if they are rude or antagonistic it's often by caring. Just have to look at the corona virus, I've gotten rude and hostile, a lot of it because people's lives are at stake, and seeing people spread missinformation or lying intentionally or not about stuff can make one heated.

Not everything, like I don't think wether or not aliens, or big foot exists effects people, but alot of stuff it's a black and white situation. Either it works and it does a lot of good, or it doesn't and does alot of harm.

And if you mean Christianity, well the previous statement applies, I've seen it said, if Christianity is true then it does a lot of good, if not it does a lot of harm, a lot of the places where world views collide with Christianity tend to be in the places where if wrong people are harmed, so of course emotions and stuff will hit.

 

[createdtoworship]

You describe in yourself what you ascribe to atheists and have yet to provide evidence that this is a common failing in atheists.

Well I have asked before and I ask again. What motivation does an athiest have to be nice? Christians have a biblical command to love their enemies. Athiests do not have any such regulation, and it shows in their words.

 

[createdtoworship]

You seem to be assuming atheism to me is like Christianity is for you. This is a mistake lots of Christians make. Christianity is not just a religion for most believers, it is a worldview! It offers answers and responses to loss, death, tragedy, inequality, injustice and a host of other things we deal with in life. Atheism takes all of that away and offers nothing in return. Now this doesn’t mean Atheists don’t have a way to deal with those things, it just means Atheism is not the method we employ when dealing with those things; because atheism is not a world view. So don’t assume we have no motivation to be nice or follow the rules, there are countless other reasons to do the right thing and be nice other than “Because God said so”. Does this make sense to you? If not tell me where you think I’ve gone wrong.

Well you said their are countless reasons for doing right. Name one that is not selfishly motivated.

 

[createdtoworship]

Thank you for asking for help.

You don't lack heart but you were doing it too gushingly.

Compassion is generally cool and understated. Logic itself (the big version) IS compassion.

I used to have the paragraph problem.

For now, just put a gap between every two sentences. In a few weeks, use the pointer to allocate sentences to different paragraphs by theme. I learned it that way. Most of us only do it roughly.

Interaction is very alarming. I used to be literally in pain from self consciousness and trying to admit results of my intellectual efforts (probably why I couldn't submit written work when a student). I talked little till my late 20s.

For me, a little (intrusion, sensation etc) goes a long way. It's worth remembering that for debaters on science, a little emotion from other participants goes a long way too.

It's only quite recently (at age 64) I have been moderately articulate.

I want to say how I admire your interest in many wonderful topics.

I worry about the kind of religion being enforced upon you. It reminds me of my young day when certain people said I had to "go witnessing" every day. Apart from spoiling one good friendship, I disobeyed!

At one stage I was fortunate that my workplace had a coach. One of her favourite instructions was that we "chunk it down". I had never done anything in one go and either people shamed me, or my low achievement caused inconvenience. Now I am not ashamed to use step by step approaches.

Thank you for the nice post. I really have severe ADD and If I had to sit and proof read a post more than say 2X it would be so painful to sit and do that, that I would just not post it all together and do something else. I know that is my bad. But if it's too much work I typically won't do it. Many label people.with ADD as lazy. But it's that their mind moves so fast that to do meaningless activities is really hard. That is why they can be good at high stress environments because their brains are normally running fast anyway. But if they get over stressed it can lead to mental overload, like myself and.my nervous breakdown in 2008 after losing.my job. Also, don't worry about over religious Ness with me. It's all motivated out if love for God and man, not a love for religion. Religion builds walls, Jesus breaks those walls of religion down.

 

[createdtoworship]

I can't read that or even tell if you mean skeptic or atheist, but I will assume skeptic as it's what you say. So me a lot of skepticism is about compassion, maybe not in how they word it, but I find too often compassion and emotions are the weapons the non skeptical side will use. look at the feel good stories in the news all the time about families putting together money for some 'miracle' cancer cure, but nothing in the story about the fact that no evidence it works, but a ton of evidence that those that go tehre die alone and such.

Or many other things that people use to con others, I think a lot of the naysayers side is about compassiion and if they are rude or antagonistic it's often by caring. Just have to look at the corona virus, I've gotten rude and hostile, a lot of it because people's lives are at stake, and seeing people spread missinformation or lying intentionally or not about stuff can make one heated.

Not everything, like I don't think wether or not aliens, or big foot exists effects people, but alot of stuff it's a black and white situation. Either it works and it does a lot of good, or it doesn't and does alot of harm.

And if you mean Christianity, well the previous statement applies, I've seen it said, if Christianity is true then it does a lot of good, if not it does a lot of harm, a lot of the places where world views collide with Christianity tend to be in the places where if wrong people are harmed, so of course emotions and stuff will hit.

Thanks for the informative post, I feEl if a skeptic has a bias in favor of Christianity they will be well off even if it is a complete fabrication. Pascal's wager states as much. So it's a win win situation. To be christian.

 

[createdtoworship]

Also when someone asks what evidence I have other than my own experience that skeptics are not compassionate. Well two things, first-15 years of debating them. At one point I was full skeptic and lost faith entirely in like 2008 or 9. I never got to the point of mocking God, I just doubted the bible was perfectly true. There are skeptics even in the theological realm, they are usually the extreme viepoints. Karl Barth, a liberal theologian. Even extreme dispensationalism can create skepticism. When I was hyper dispensationalism I started doubting the scripture as true as.I battled with details of various dispensations. I am a soft dispensationalisT now. But I get skepticism, athiests think christians are not skeptical. We are, we just work faith into our skeptical nature. It's like is the glass half empty as the skeptic says, or is it half full as the loving christian says.

 

[Ken-1122]

Well you said their are countless reasons for doing right. Name one that is not selfishly motivated.

*Integrity.
Integrity is the desire to do the right thing even when nobody is looking. As an atheist, I know I have integrity because I know my behavior when nobody is looking. If I were a christian who believed God were always looking, I would not truly know.

*Society
Humans are social creatures. But in order for a society to be successful; in order for people to live in harmony, there has to be agreed upon rules that attempts fairness for all who are a part of the society. The motivation an atheist has to follow the laws is also because he will be punished by the society he wants to be a part of.

Those are two reasons.
Nothing troubles me more than the religious person who says his religion is the only thing preventing him from committing every atrocity imaginable; and that his religion is barely holding him back! Please tell me you are not one of those religious types; that if it weren’t for your belief in God you would still have a reason to be good! I would hope you would be better than that...are you???

PS IMO doing good for a selfish reason is far better than doing nothing at all.