Is a Good Man deemed not Good because his faith is diffrent?

[FullyAmbivalent]

I have been asking myself a question for a while. The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

This has been something that has bothered me. I could not understand how a good person could be deemed not good because he does not share the same belief as me.

I am very thankful that I searched out an answer for this question and I found it.

In Romans 2:12-16 Paul writes, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion.

What is a Heathen? A Heathen is one who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

Why, if there were Christians at the time, would the word Gentile not mean a Christian? Well, because at the time no one considered themselves a Christian. The word Christian did not even exist. The people still considered themselves to be Jews, but they also were considered followers of "the way" or, the way of Jesus. In the above written words of Paul we are told that it does not matter if you are a "Christian" or not as long as you naturally live by the laws God has set for mankind.

Please, if you feel that I am wrong then correct me but don't just tell me I am wrong, show me where and why I am wrong. Give me examples or tell me what to read. I enjoy enhancing and exploring my faith and what it means.

 

[Eternal Mindset]

You are a sinner because you have sinned.
No descendant of man has ever lived a life without sin, and no descendant of man ever will.
The only way for someone to pay for their sins is to acknowledge that Jesus is their savior.

A Buddhist monk cannot love; we love because God loved us first, and without God they cannot truly love. Without God in their life their acts are empty and meaningless.
They will burn in hell if they do not acknowledge Jesus as their savior.

It stinks to think these people who do good things on Earth will burn in hell, but when you think about it: All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light; no one goes to the Father except through him. And we are saved by faith and not works.

As for hearing the law and being judged by it; A man will not be judged by laws he has not heard, but he will also not be rewarded for obeying the laws he did not know existed. It's all about conscience and heart attitude.

And again; the gentiles did not follow the Christian way, but they knew right from wrong. They had a conscience. All Paul was saying is that they would be judged by their conscience. If they had even 1 sin that they knew was sin, they would burn in hell for it because they had not accepted the gift of salvation from Christ.

I hope this clears this issue up for you

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

 

[deu58]

Hi Fully Ambivalant

The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

In Romans 2:12-16 Paul writes, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

I was very surprised to see this because I saw these verses myself several years ago and I have come to the same personal conclusion, But I never share it, That is because the bulk of scripture says Christ and Christ only, You are the only other person I have come across who seems to see the same thing I do in those verses,

But I also have to wonder that if perhaps I am seeing something that really is not there due to the multitude of verses that say Jesus and Jesus only, I know Satan will use our limited understanding of the scripture against us causing us to see things that we hope are there rather than what is really there,

Most of us posting here are western Christians who were raised in Christianity and it just seems so incredible to us that the rest of the world does not just drop what they believe and jump on the band wagon with the rest of us westerners,

But what if there was a role reversal and we born into the eastern cultures and raised in their customs and traditions, Would Christianity as the only true way to God seem so obvious then??

One needs to remember the main reason for the spread of Christianity was the Catholic church, She eradicated opposition rather than seek real conversion,

The Protestants did the same to the American Indians also, Thus many original "converts" did so out of fear for their own lives, And their children were raised in tenants of the the New Faith,

So I think about these things from time to time just like you and that verse always comes to mind, Is it a loop hole in the New Testament? Again, It appears as such but I prefer to error on the side of caution, I share Christ and Christ only as the only way to salvation,

Maybe we can get some people with a deeper insight concerning the scriptures to wiegh in on this, I would really like to see some opposing opinions rooted in knowledge rather than religious indoctrination on this my self

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Lynn73]

There are a lot of good people in the world. But, where in Scrpture does it say this is sufficient for entrance into heaven? God says that any righteousness of ours is like looking at filthy rags to Him. We're sinners and we need a Savior. Everyone. Jesus Himself stated that NOONE will come to the Father if they don't come through Him. So, yes, there'll be "good" people not going to heaven. In reality, the Bible says that none are good in God's eyes.

Ro 3:12 - Show Context They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

For those who never hear about God or the gospel, there is this:

Romans 1:19-21 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; F6 for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so F7 that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

"Gentile" is anyone who is not a Jew. To the Hebrews there were two kinds of people: the Jewish people and everyone else - the Gentiles. Does not mean Christian, does not mean pagan, does not mean heathen. Just means not Jewish.

 

[visionary]

Story time....

There were two fellows travelling along the road, they were of two different characters, one who was a kind loving generous fellow, while the other was a miser, miserable, selfish nasty guy. As they journey they discussed the univere, God and life and the nasty guy told of the religion that he followed from the Bible, and claimed he got saved. The kind fellow while interested in finding God wasn't sure that the way this nasty guy found God was it. A strong wind came and sweeped them off the road and over a cliff. They were able to grab tree roots and hang on. They were trying to get up by themselves b\ut were unable. They hollared for help, and a hand was seen reaching down....now they could grasp in faith, or they can fear....

So it is with us today, it is our faith that saves us, for we can not live in fear but trust God that He will answer our prayers and save us. It is in the character of the trusting soul that salvation is kept. It is in the character of the fearful selfish soul that looks for fault and loses out.

SO how are we to become trusting souls, that GOd can save? We have all heard the varied doom and gloom coming upon this world, and I will not deny that they will come to pass as fortold by scripture, but that is not where we are to look. We are to focus on that which is the good, kind, true, and where else are we going to find the perfect good but in God Himself. God promised to send us His Holy Spirit to guide us in all truth. How many have experienced a "bad feeling"' that gut reaction that something is not right? How many have followed that "gut feeling" with prayer for guidance to what is right and what should you do? We have been dulled in our spiritual senses as to the signals of good and evil by the bombardment from every angle. more time is needed in prayer and a quiet relationship with God, His Word and a desire to have a even more closer relationship so that you can trust the " gut reaction"...for God gave it for a reason. The relationship with God is the most important, for without it nothing else will make sense.

If you have the Word of God without a relationship with God, you will have a theory, a theology. If you have much prayer but know not God personally, you will become a ritual and all the prayers will take on a form, maybe even perscribed by some religious order, because you have nothing to say to a real God from the heart. If you have a gut feeling, but have no where to turn to get an understanding of why, then you may not react as you should to the situation at hand.

Many have worship God and not known Him from the Bible. They have called Him, the Great White Spirit, in North America. God knows who truly love him, and who truly follow what He has asked of them. God knows those who have sought Him, and though there was no messenger to bring the Word of God, they have by visions and dreams have drawn closer to Him. God knows those who He can trust to live with Him forever, and these He will bring Home with Him.

 

[ThirdTimesaCharm]

Thanks for addressing an issue that many people take to heart, and seems to be a point of divide even among the most dedicated Christians. I came across a Christian website where this question was posed, and sought for answers as I followed a discussion in which the administrators of the forum were insistent that people who have not heard the Word preached are condemned to hell, period. They even included children among that group.

Feeling that was a very harsh understanding, I began searching for answers. I got out a concordance and ran down the passage in Romans 2, and by it came to the conclusion that they are not necessarily damned in such a case. The passage there clearly indicates that to the Gentiles in that condition, there was a rule of a God-guided conscience by which they were either "excused" or "condemned," as the case may be. To look further, I simply took the question, "What about those who never heard of Christ?" and pulled up a variety of pages. When I sorted through them, I stopped after 8 or 10 pages, because there obviously were so many trying to wrestle with this subject. Of the Christian websites I visited in all those pages, 80-100 sites in all, I only found 2 which went the condemning route.

So I would side with those who do not automatically condemn in such cases, taking the admonition of deu58 to proceed with caution. Yes, there are the passages with "Jesus only." I would amend the comment by Eternal Mindset,

"The only way for someone to pay for their sins is to acknowledge that Jesus is their savior."

I think I might have said, the only way for someone to pay for their sins is to know Jesus. Paul expressed that as his desire, "I want to know Christ." To me, "knowing Christ" is being in full communion through the Spirit, and not necessarily a direct knowledge about Christ. Knowing Christ and knowing about Christ are two different things. In that light, I have a bit different view of the revelation of Christ than a lot of people do. John wrote that Jesus "was the True Light which gives light to every man coming into the world." Now I happen to believe when it says every, it means every, but I don't believe we all have the same amount of light. Nor do I attempt to narrow down to a tight definition any method by which that light was received by the individual. We all receive light different ways, we all receive it in different amounts. Certainly the witness of the Word to the living Christ is primary to us, but God is not limited to the Word only. Paul saw the Christ in an appearance on the Damascus Road. Teresa of Avila received a personal experience of His presence bathing her in divine floods of ecstasy. I myself was converted when He cornered me alone in my house until I heard nothing but His voice, and surrendered.

I'm reminded of Cornelius, one described as a "god-fearer," whose prayers we are told were accepted, and to whom God sent Peter for more direct revelation of Christ. Paul before the men of Athens did not condemn the ways in which they sought God, but said he perceived them as "very religious." Then he said of their inscription "To the Unknown God," "The God you ignorantly worship I now proclaim to you." In other words, they worshiped God without full knowledge of God, yet Paul does not suggest they worshiped someone other than God. And he then proceeded to preach Christ to them.

Certainly there is a lot to consider in this topic, if we want a fully-informed view. I don't propose to have a definitive answer to the question, but I do tend to lean on the side of mercy. We are told He is a God of mercy, and it is one of His attributes. I cannot go along with some of the harsh views that some people present in answer to this question.

The same is true of Jewish thinking, there is a place, in the Midrashic texts, I think, where a rabbinical interpretation is given of the drowning of pharaoh's army as they pursue the Israelites. The people are rejoicing, and God admonishes them, "This is not a day for celebration, this is a day for mourning. Why will you rejoice over the death of my children, the Egyptians?"

 

[Unnamed Servant]

Salvation is not about the amount of faith, it is about what you have your faith in.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I have been asking myself a question for a while. The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

You attribute "moral and righteous" to unbelievers. As has been shown this is not the case for "all fall short of the glory of God, there is NONE 'righteous', no not one." The Pharisees and the Sadducees were perhaps at least in their own eyes and in the eyes of their people, the most righteous, most moral people in Israel, yet this is what Jesus said of them:

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Paul speaks of HIS "righteousness" as follows:

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Phil 3:3-14 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

The word "righteousness" in the scriptures means "right standing with God". Now if you can show me any man that "exceeds" Paul's own "righteousness", then I would say that they should get a pass and get into heaven without acknowledging Christ as their Savior. But since you cannot, then take heed that you yourself be not caught up into the heresy that there is some other way besides Jesus by which we must be saved.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[SPALATIN]

I have been asking myself a question for a while. The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

This has been something that has bothered me. I could not understand how a good person could be deemed not good because he does not share the same belief as me.

I am very thankful that I searched out an answer for this question and I found it.

In Romans 2:12-16 Paul writes, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion.

What is a Heathen? A Heathen is one who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

Why, if there were Christians at the time, would the word Gentile not mean a Christian? Well, because at the time no one considered themselves a Christian. The word Christian did not even exist. The people still considered themselves to be Jews, but they also were considered followers of "the way" or, the way of Jesus. In the above written words of Paul we are told that it does not matter if you are a "Christian" or not as long as you naturally live by the laws God has set for mankind.

Please, if you feel that I am wrong then correct me but don't just tell me I am wrong, show me where and why I am wrong. Give me examples or tell me what to read. I enjoy enhancing and exploring my faith and what it means.

If you can keep the law 100% all of the time you would have a good case, however, no one has that ability. Only Christ was able to fulfill the law and he paid the price for your sin. So when you die and stand before God at the Judgement, he will look at you and ask you by what right do you deserve to spend eternity here. Do you honestly believe that you will be able to say that you kept the law perfectly all the time? Galations 2:21 says :"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

We as human beings, because of original sin, don't have the ability or will to make any decision where God or Christ is concerned. We are blind to God's ways and dead in our sins. We can come to faith only by hearing the word of God which initiates the Holy Spirit to begin his work of convicting you that you are a sinner and deserve death. That is the law. Once he has convinced you that you are a sinner he then can introduce to you the only way to escape what you deserve. The only way is Jesus Christ. He alone has defeated death and was the sole propitiation for our sin. Through him we receive eternal life. When we are Baptized (I know this will contradict what many believe here about Baptism, but this is what I believe scripture teaches), we are re-born as a new Creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 explains it. If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation, the old is gone, the new has come.

It is we who are accepted by Christ and not the other way around. If you read Romans 7 it can really explain much in what the law does versus what Christ did.

Works alone can not save us, but Christ is our Savior.

 

[Reformationist]

The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith?

No. No one is sent to hell for rejecting Christ if they have not rejected Christ. However, the Bible clearly reveals that man inherently exchanges the truth of God for a lie. We are also told that God has revealed Himself in the things that are made in such a profound and undeniable way that all are without excuse. So, if we acknowledge that no one is sent to hell for rejecting Christ if they never rejected Christ and also acknowledge that the Scripture clearly reveals that God has revealed Himself, even unto the Godhead, in the things He has made, removing any excuse from man, then we can only conclude that those who go to hell having never rejected Christ do so because they rejected the Father.

What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

Relativism is so predominant in our societies, even in the church itself, that we feel no qualms with making a statement like, "what if you don't believe in God but live a moral and rightoeus life..." There is no such thing as someone who lives a "moral and righteous life" without faith in God. Morality and righteousness are judged according to a standard. That standard is the Law of God.

This has been something that has bothered me. I could not understand how a good person could be deemed not good because he does not share the same belief as me.

Well, I don't know that I'd say your view is the standard by which a person is judged good but if one has no faith in God their works will be judged against the Law and found wanting. Thus, they merit eternal condemnation.

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion.

A Gentile is not a Pagan or a Heathen. A Gentile, even back then, was simply a non-Jew. There were many Gentile Pagans but not all Gentiles were Pagans.

In the above written words of Paul we are told that it does not matter if you are a "Christian" or not as long as you naturally live by the laws God has set for mankind.

This is a distinction without a difference. One who lives by the laws God has set for mankind is a Christian.

God bless

 

[rnmomof7]

Hi Fully Ambivalant


I was very surprised to see this because I saw these verses myself several years ago and I have come to the same personal conclusion, But I never share it, That is because the bulk of scripture says Christ and Christ only, You are the only other person I have come across who seems to see the same thing I do in those verses,

But I also have to wonder that if perhaps I am seeing something that really is not there due to the multitude of verses that say Jesus and Jesus only, I know Satan will use our limited understanding of the scripture against us causing us to see things that we hope are there rather than what is really there,

Most of us posting here are western Christians who were raised in Christianity and it just seems so incredible to us that the rest of the world does not just drop what they believe and jump on the band wagon with the rest of us westerners,

But what if there was a role reversal and we born into the eastern cultures and raised in their customs and traditions, Would Christianity as the only true way to God seem so obvious then??

One needs to remember the main reason for the spread of Christianity was the Catholic church, She eradicated opposition rather than seek real conversion,

The Protestants did the same to the American Indians also, Thus many original "converts" did so out of fear for their own lives, And their children were raised in tenants of the the New Faith,

So I think about these things from time to time just like you and that verse always comes to mind, Is it a loop hole in the New Testament? Again, It appears as such but I prefer to error on the side of caution, I share Christ and Christ only as the only way to salvation,

Maybe we can get some people with a deeper insight concerning the scriptures to wiegh in on this, I would really like to see some opposing opinions rooted in knowledge rather than religious indoctrination on this my self

yours in Christ
deu58

Romans is a polemic doctrinal book .

Paul walks through mans need for Christ step by step.

If you read Romans you learn that "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".

Romans tells us that because man can not keep the law perfectly they need a saviour that can. That saviour is Christ. He kept the law perfectly , he fulfilled the law and the demands of it in our place.

We are told that
Rom 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another


So the Jews has the law on stone and the Gentiles have it written in their heart . So the heathen in the woods has a law that God expects him to keep perfectly... But no man can.


Here is what God says about us

Rom 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:



Rom 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.



Rom 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one

God gave the law to show us we are sinners in need of a saviour, otherwise we might never know and desire to repent and come to Christ.

So those that never hear the gospel are still responsible for their sin and their inability to keep the law.
That is why we send missionaries .
Paul tells us the purpose of the law is that it is our school master

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith


Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all


Jesus told us the way to the Father and he is it

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

Jhn 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Jhn 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


So no man can keep the law , not the one on their heart or the one on the tablets of stone . We need a savior, and that savior is Jesus Christ , God incarnate

Act 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


The Gentiles need a saviour too

Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Reformationist]

You are a sinner because you have sinned.

No. We sin because, by nature, we are sinners.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

"Gentile" is anyone who is not a Jew. To the Hebrews there were two kinds of people: the Jewish people and everyone else - the Gentiles. Does not mean Christian, does not mean pagan, does not mean heathen. Just means not Jewish.

Good job s/S.

God bless

 

[FullyAmbivalent]

Many have said here that we are not capable of living the law of God and Jesus. Yet in Deuteronomy 30:9-14 we are told differently.

"Then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, 'Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, 'Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?' No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it."

If God says we can follow his Laws, why do you tell me we cannot?

 

[Eternal Mindset]

He says that they will not be told when they ascend to Heaven, and that they do not need to travel in search of a law to keep; because the law is in themselves (their conscience).
We can all follow His laws for they are inside of ourselves, but no one is perfect; all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

In brotherly love,
Eternal Mindset

 

[MbiaJc]

I have been asking myself a question for a while. The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

This has been something that has bothered me. I could not understand how a good person could be deemed not good because he does not share the same belief as me.

I am very thankful that I searched out an answer for this question and I found it.

In Romans 2:12-16 Paul writes, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion.

What is a Heathen? A Heathen is one who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

Why, if there were Christians at the time, would the word Gentile not mean a Christian? Well, because at the time no one considered themselves a Christian. The word Christian did not even exist. The people still considered themselves to be Jews, but they also were considered followers of "the way" or, the way of Jesus. In the above written words of Paul we are told that it does not matter if you are a "Christian" or not as long as you naturally live by the laws God has set for mankind.

Please, if you feel that I am wrong then correct me but don't just tell me I am wrong, show me where and why I am wrong. Give me examples or tell me what to read. I enjoy enhancing and exploring my faith and what it means.

John 14:6-7 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

 

[YahwehLove]

And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
(Act 4:12)

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.

....

I have been asking myself a question for a while. The question is that if you are not a Christian are you a sinner because of your lack of faith? What if you do not believe in God, but you live a moral and righteous life because of your natural desire to care for people and empathy for those around you? Is a good person damned to hell because he does not believe in God or Jesus? Is a Buddhist monk who practices non-violence, love, and forgiveness going to be Judge as one who sins?

This has been something that has bothered me. I could not understand how a good person could be deemed not good because he does not share the same belief as me.

I am very thankful that I searched out an answer for this question and I found it.

In Romans 2:12-16 Paul writes, "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Now some will argue that the word Gentile means a Christian. That is true if you look at the definition that is applied this day and age. The definition of the word Gentile during the time Paul was teaching and during the times of Jesus, the archaic definition, is a Pagan or a Heathen.

What is a Pagan? A Pagan is one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. It is also one who has no religion.

What is a Heathen? A Heathen is one who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.

Why, if there were Christians at the time, would the word Gentile not mean a Christian? Well, because at the time no one considered themselves a Christian. The word Christian did not even exist. The people still considered themselves to be Jews, but they also were considered followers of "the way" or, the way of Jesus. In the above written words of Paul we are told that it does not matter if you are a "Christian" or not as long as you naturally live by the laws God has set for mankind.

Please, if you feel that I am wrong then correct me but don't just tell me I am wrong, show me where and why I am wrong. Give me examples or tell me what to read. I enjoy enhancing and exploring my faith and what it means.

 

[Reformationist]

If God says we can follow his Laws, why do you tell me we cannot?

No one is saying that we cannot follow His laws. What we're saying is that, apart from His grace, we cannot follow His law.

God bless

 

[danclang]

I myself have poundered over this question so many times. Don't have a conclusion for anyone else but me. Let me set up my background. I am of chinese descent having grown up in an island country singapore. My family's religion is one of traditional chinese ancestoral worship. Can't really explain it except that it's a mix of Buddhism, Taoism and ancient chinese philosophy.
Converted to Christianity because of influence from extended family. 12 years old at that time. Read the bible and accepted Jesus as my God. Over the course of many years of believing that all are going to hell unless they become Christians I started to question that believe once I was in the US going to a Baptist University. I started to question EVERY belief!
My conclusion? Heaven and hell does not matter. Saved or not. Does not matter. God is more concerned about how people treat one another. God is more interested in my desire to please him. Period.
Scriptural bases for that? When asked which of the commandments were the greatest? " Love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul your strength" "Love your neighbor as yourself."