Is a complete collapse imminent?

[Steve Petersen]

Then you refuse to be human in any sense of the word.

I hope you meant to say 'humane' rather than 'human' because labeling opponents sub-human is the first step to justifying extermination.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I think Finland was more of a co-belligerent than a full member of the Axis. She fought with Germany and the fascists because no one else really wanted to fight the Soviets.

I apologize for derailing the thread , again, but in the lack of proper WWII forum... Anyways, sorry.

Be that as it may, in a sense tiny Finland did play her part in that war. The current understanding still holds that watching "tiny" Finland fight the "big" Red Army to standstill in the Finnish-Russo Winter War 1939-1940 was what on its part boosted Hitler to launch Barbarossa in the first place, which of course, turned out to be a mistake on all accounts. Hitler underestimated the Red Army, parts because of its poor performance against the Finnish Defense Forces.

The crux of the problem can be seen on this chart here:

http://www.321energy.com/editorials/bloom/bloom071008a.jpg

As you can see, much of the celebrated "growth" of the last half of the 20th century was simply an expansion of the amount of energy available per capita to humans in industrialized nations. The American standard of living peaked around 1970. We've read a lot about how growth largely stagnated during the last couple of decades of the 20th century, and that stagnation occurred when the amount of energy available per capita plateaued.

As fossil fuels deplete and the amount of energy available per capita declines, we'll see an unwinding of much of that growth. By the middle of the century, we will have access to about as much energy per capita as we did at the beginning of the 20th century...and likely our standard of living will be only a little better than what we had then.

This is actually difficult for most Americans to understand, because this problem does not fit into the Left versus Right paradigm that has dominated American politics in the Industrial Age. This is not an issue of wealth distribution gone awry, nor of excess government regulation. This problem did not arise because the rich got too rich or weren't allowed to get rich enough. We can't solve it by expropriating the wealth of the rich, nor would us working people selling our houses and donating the money to the Forbes 500 so they can buy more LearJets make it any better. Neither Barack Obama nor Rush Limbaugh have much of anything to offer here.

Inasmuch as any single factor or event can be blamed, it is our turning away from space exploration and technological development. Had we kept up space colonization at the same pace that gave us the Apollo program, we would likely have discovered new sources of energy and technologies.

Now there's food for thought...

Any word whether this "alternative energies boom" could in any way be enough to replace "the oil boom"? At least turning to these other sources of energy boosts innovation and new technology right here on Earth, no?

 

[Wyzaard]

I hope you meant to say 'humane' rather than 'human' because labeling opponents sub-human is the first step to justifying extermination.

Lovely libel, Mr. Misconstruer.

If he eschews cooperation, communication, collective action, egalitarian aims and humane living... what is he, really?

 

[Wyzaard]

Hitler underestimated the Red Army, parts because of its poor performance against the Finnish Defense Forces.

Finland's a different terrain entirely... Russians knew how to operate on Russian soil.

Any word whether this "alternative energies boom" could in any way be enough to replace "the oil boom"? At least turning to these other sources of energy boosts innovation and new technology right here on Earth, no?

It could be, IF we start NOW, before such technologies are too expensive to produce due to fossil-energy constraints in the future.

 

[Chazemataz]

Evevn if it did collapse, we wouldn't see a doomsday mass looting-in-the-streets, hellfire raining down scenario like some people think. It would be a terrible thing, but eventually someone would step up and take charge. And there are many patriots out there who would rather eat lead than concede to foreign absorbtion of our nation if a collapse did happen.
We must remain optimistic, spouting alarmist pessimism will not get anyone anywhere. At worst, the stimulus will cause inflation and we will still be in economic straits, but this time with a massively inflated economic system. At best, the stimulus will help create new jobs, and give us a chance to recover and not make the same mistakes again.

 

[ScottBot]

Evevn if it did collapse, we wouldn't see a doomsday mass looting-in-the-streets, hellfire raining down scenario like some people think. It would be a terrible thing, but eventually someone would step up and take charge. And there are many patriots out there who would rather eat lead than concede to foreign absorbtion of our nation if a collapse did happen.
We must remain optimistic, spouting alarmist pessimism will not get anyone anywhere. At worst, the stimulus will cause inflation and we will still be in economic straits, but this time with a massively inflated economic system. At best, the stimulus will help create new jobs, and give us a chance to recover and not make the same mistakes again.

What you call pessimism I call an objective observation of reality.

 

[Joachim]

Evevn if it did collapse, we wouldn't see a doomsday mass looting-in-the-streets, hellfire raining down scenario like some people think. It would be a terrible thing, but eventually someone would step up and take charge. And there are many patriots out there who would rather eat lead than concede to foreign absorbtion of our nation if a collapse did happen.
We must remain optimistic, spouting alarmist pessimism will not get anyone anywhere. At worst, the stimulus will cause inflation and we will still be in economic straits, but this time with a massively inflated economic system. At best, the stimulus will help create new jobs, and give us a chance to recover and not make the same mistakes again.

I doubt that we will get conquered, but we may very well conquer someone else. It is actually American law that the entire western hemisphere is "our domain". I could easily see us becoming more involved in Latin America and Africa, which will be the main foreign policy battlegrounds this century.


This stimulus is not a job creating stimulus. It is a bailout the banks and risking hyperinflation kind of stimulus. It only looks better than a McCain one would because it does bailout homeowners, but even McCain would have bailed out the banks. I honestly do believe that if you had the Clinton's back in the white house, they would be attacking this the right way with a jobs first kind of stimulus, something which this just isn't.

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I doubt that we will get conquered, but we may very well conquer someone else. It is actually American law that the entire western hemisphere is "our domain".

Which law states that the entire Western Hemisphere is "our domain." I have not heard that before. And, if it is in the USA laws, just because someone says it, does not make it true.

 

[Joachim]

Which law states that the entire Western Hemisphere is "our domain." I have not heard that before. And, if it is in the USA laws, just because someone says it, does not make it true.

Monroe Doctrine

 

[Steve Petersen]

Which is not actually a law, but a foreign policy statement.

 

[CCGirl]

Which is an evil foreign policy and needs to be wiped off the books. People have self determination, and thankfully we are seeing that what with South America throwing off its colonial chains!!

 

[Steve Petersen]

Which is an evil foreign policy and needs to be wiped off the books. People have self determination, and thankfully we are seeing that what with South America throwing off its colonial chains!!

There is no 'book' because it is not a law.

 

[ScottBot]

Which is an evil foreign policy and needs to be wiped off the books. People have self determination, and thankfully we are seeing that what with South America throwing off its colonial chains!!

Umm, you do realize that it is because of the Monroe Doctrine that all of the Americas were freed from further European colonization, right? have you ever actually read a history book?

 

[rosenherman]

So, US SS is included in general spending??! Not kept seperate?


I certainly hope that the younger generation doesnt lose all faith in the future and risking their lives for a job that entails becoming a professional killer.:o

The military is expected to defend our country. To do that requires a willingness to kill and to die. As long as we have brave, intelligent and patriotic people in this country there will be a younger generation who is willing to make the sacrifice that their parent's generation, grandparent's generation, great-grandparents generation have made. The same sacrifice each generation of our great country has made.

 

[rosenherman]

Umm, you do realize that it is because of the Monroe Doctrine that all of the Americas were freed from European colonization, right? have you ever actually read a history book?

No! Are you kidding? Why would you want to confuse righteous indignation with facts?

 

[CCGirl]

Umm, you do realize that it is because of the Monroe Doctrine that all of the Americas were freed from further European colonization, right? have you ever actually read a history book?

Freed to come under US colonization/influence. Not free.

 

[CCGirl]

The military is expected to defend our country. To do that requires a willingness to kill and to die. As long as we have brave, intelligent and patriotic people in this country there will be a younger generation who is willing to make the sacrifice that their parent's generation, grandparent's generation, great-grandparents generation have made. The same sacrifice each generation of our great country has made.

It doesnt take any intelligence or patriotism or bravery to become a professional killer. When is the last time the USA was in a war to defend itself??:o

 

[ScottBot]

Freed to come under US colonization/influence. Not free.

Yes, because Canada is so under the thumb of the US. Please. Leave the tipping at windmills to Don Quixote.

 

[CCGirl]

Yes, because Canada is so under the thumb of the US. Please. Leave the tipping at windmills to Don Quixote.

The USA did not free Canada from anything!

 

[ScottBot]

The USA did not free Canada from anything!

Technically, we assisted Britain in liberating you from France....only for you to come under the thumb of Britain. We threw off that monkey 233 years ago. It took you a bit longer to realize that being a colony isn't all its cracked up to be.