Historicist Only The True Structuring of the Revelation

[Jerryhuerta]

The historical evidence that apostate Protestantism fostered the rise of secularism that enriched the merchants of the earth exposes it as the harlot Babylon and relegates the preterist and futurist false narratives as fuel fit for the fire (1 Corinthians 3:13). Not surprisingly, no one engaged with or refuted the evidence I previously presented. No one even tried because the books or research of Michael Tigar, George M. Thomas, Davide Cantoni, Jeremiah Dittmar, Noam Yuchtman, E. J. Hobsbawm, Bernard Bailyn, Mark A. Noll, and Nancy R. Pearcey all agreed that it’s a fact the Protestants fostered the rise of secularism by their intercourse with kings of the earth. The Protestants’ part in taking the legitimization of civil government away from Roman Catholicism to establish secular civil institutions is a fact that triggers many because it affirms Historicism. And many of those who will be triggered by this final message will the progressive liberals that call themselves Christians.

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:3)​

The triggering manifests as ignoring the irrefutable evidence and shameful self-promotion of false narratives from either the preterists or the futurists’ paradigms.

The actual narrative deems it impossible to interpret Revelation through a preterist lens, with their misrepresentations of temporal indicators, because ancient Jerusalem did not contribute to the prosperity of the merchants of the earth. The pagan Romans, Daniel’s fourth beast, enriched the merchants, and pagans cannot be construed as a harlot from a covenant perspective. Only God’s people are condemned for such covenant violations, and Jeremiah is the precedent.

For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD… As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. (Jeremiah 5:11, 27-28)​

Such evidence also deems it impossible to interpret Revelation through a futurist’s lens because the merchants of the earth have gained significant influence and riches for nearly two centuries from the impact of Protestantism, not some future phenomenon by the Jews. This reality regarding the two antagonists in Revelation - Babylon and the merchants - confirms Historicism. Futurists and preterists have to make up alternate realities.

Before the rise of Protestantism, the papacy played a role in legitimizing civil government in the West, and history shows that it bestowed kings with their crowns. This is seen in the shift of crowns to horns in Revelation 13:1. In modern times, the power given the beast to “overcome the saints” in Chapter 13 has been taken away by Protestantism, as shown by the missing crowns in Chapter 17. These details confirm that Revelation 13 is a historical account of the past.

Furthermore, Daniel 2:44 states that Christ returns in the days of the ten kings, not the Roman Empire. Rome ends, and the little horn rises amongst the ten horns in Daniel 7:8, corresponding to the beast rising from the sea in Revelation. This affirms we are to look for the little horn after the Roman empire ends, not some made-up neo-Rome as futurists surmise. The beast is wounded when the sixth king reigns, as shown by the phrase “was, and is not” in Revelation 17:9-11. The sixth king rises from the earth, and its image is the seventh.

Based on the Hebrew cultus, the seven typical feasts in the Hebrew calendar, Revelation Chapter 1 begins a linear narration that leads up to Christ’s return in Chapter 11, illustrating Christ’s mediation during the inter-advent age. Chapters 1-11 describe Christ’s intercession typified by Aaronic’s high priest starting “between the porch and the altar” and ending at the Holy of Holies, before “the ark of his testament.”

Developmental guidelines and historical evidence affirm John’s recap from the beginning of the first advent in Chapter 12 until the second in 19, followed by Christ’s millennial reign. Revelation 12 recaps the first advent to reveal the judgment upon Satan and the wicked; Chapters 13 and 17 follow a linear narrative. The accurate structuring of Revelation maintains the principle affirmed by Peter that judgment begins with the house of God in Chapters 1-11 and concludes with those “that obey not the gospel of God” in Chapters 12-19 (1 Peter 4:17).

Prolepses, like the sixth seal and the vials in Chapter 16, occur intermittently in the texts.

In returning to the merchants' narrative, history affirms that war accompanied the rise of the merchants, which secularist, lawyer, law professor, and author Michael Tigar verifies,

The rapid rise of manufactures, particularly in England, gradually absorbed the vagrants and dispossessed. With the advent of manufacture, the various nations entered into a competitive relationship. The struggle for trade was fought by war, protective duties and prohibitions, whereas earlier the nations, in so far as they were connected at all, had carried on an inoffensive exchange with each other. Trade from now on had a political significance. To begin the march to industrial capitalism, to impose new economic forms, to share by right or conquest or theft in the wealth of the New World, to maintain a balance of trade such that more wealth flowed into a country than left it— all of these things were accomplished at a great price.1​

Tigar referred to the vagrants and dispossessed who resulted from the English Enclosure Laws. These laws evicted many peasants from their land so that feudal lords could commercialize it and benefit from the expanding trade that came with the discovery of the New World. The displaced individuals were then absorbed by the manufacturing industry as cheap labor, which is another ramification of the rise of the merchants. Copious evidence confirms that the rise of merchants led to wars over trade, protective duties, and prohibitions. The most well-known examples of such conflicts were the two world wars. At Yale and Princeton's trade and war conference, Ronald Findlay of Columbia University and Kevin O'Rourke of Trinity College Dublin presented a thesis on the link between trade and war during the time of rising merchants,

The Industrial Revolution enabled the European powers to extend their sway from the coastal regions of Asia and Africa deep into the interiors, using armed steamboats to sail up the rivers and breech-loading rifles and later machine guns to sweep aside native resistance… As the Industrial Revolution proceeded in Europe and later in the United States and Japan the rising demand for primary products saw the emergence of export economies in Southeast Asia, Africa and Latin America during the era from 1870 to1914… The First World War was at least partly due to imperial rivalry between Britain and France on the one hand and Germany on the other. In the Second World War both Germany and Japan were to a large extent motivated by pressure to relieve perceived shortages and lack of access to industrial raw materials and fuel supplies…​

​

The attack on the Soviet Union was also calculated to give Japan a free hand in the East against the British, French and Dutch colonies in Southeast Asia with their rich oil and other natural resources. Japan, always acutely conscious of her deficiency in natural resources, had already occupied Manchuria in 1932 to exploit its iron ore and to develop heavy industry, and provoked war with China in 1937… The stage was thus set for a global conflict between the “Heartland” and the “Rimland”, the land powers of Eurasia versus the sea powers of the Atlantic and Pacific, which had long been anticipated by the geopolitical theorists Halford Mackinder (1904) and Alfred Thayer Mahan (1890). War, trade and natural resources were once again fatefully intertwined, on a global scale.2​

According to Tigar, the emergence of merchants also resulted in a displacement of people from their land. This phenomenon is a well-documented part of modern history, fueling the Industrial Revolution. The shift from rural to urban living resulted from treating food and labor as commodities for commercial gain. This practice started in England with the exploitation of factory workers. Still, it quickly became a global trend, driven by the desire for cheap food. John Hodges, a scientist, testified about the first attempt at globalization, which aligns with the consequences of the rise of merchants and the dispossessing of impoverished people from their farms,

Globally, food production per person has been increasing, but 840 million people (13%) suffer from under-nutrition, malnutrition or famine because socioeconomic systems inhibit equitable distribution (FAO, 2004).… The long-term answer to feeding the world sustainably does not lie in shipping food from the West. Any economic system which separates the poor from their land or takes away their market for selling food inevitably perpetuates poverty, increases hunger and adds to the threat of famine. Globalizing agriculture and food on the basis of free trade runs that risk.… Western governments know from their own experience over the last 200 years that food cannot be treated simply as a tradable commodity subject to unrestrained capitalism without sooner or later running into socio-economic imbalances: hunger, rationing, famine, lost capacity to feed a nation, negative effects with hidden costs, obesity, mass movements of people off the land, unemployment etc.—all of these are Western socio-economic experiences.3​

Finally, it is essential to acknowledge the role of Protestant missionary imperialism (PMI) in the growth of merchant culture and trade expansion. It cannot be ignored that after more than twelve centuries of the papal system, the "spirit of Protestantism" gave rise to capitalism and a market-focused society that benefited merchants and liberal Protestants. Theologian and professor emeritus of pastoral theology Michael Sievernich supports the link between PMI and the initial push toward globalization,

Christianity had spread throughout the European continent during a thousand year process that extended from Late Antiquity to the Late Middle Ages. With its variety of missionary methods (e.g. peaceful mission, mission by coercion and the conversion of tribes by first converting the ruler), Christianity had reached all European peoples. It extended from Greece to Scandinavia and Iceland; it stretched from Ireland in the far west to Eastern Europe’s West Slavic and Baltic peoples. This process had brought forth European Christianity which, in turn and by stages, initiated missionary activity beyond Europe’s borders. The religious missionary enterprise was generally tied to the economically driven power politics involved in European overseas expansion, a process of globalization.4​

Professor of Contemporary History at the University of Marburg, Benedikt Stuchtey, also affirms the ramifications of PMI,

colonial rule caused complex competitions among Europeans just as much as among the indigenous population in the colonies, that it was able to simultaneously create cooperation and close webs of relationships between conquerors and the conquered, and that it was never at any time free of violence and war, despotism, arbitrariness and lawlessness.5​

Here we have the completion of all the elements that comprise the illustration of the four horsemen of the seven seals. PMI “went forth conquering, and to conquer” that took “peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another,” while calling out the price of a “measure of wheat” and “three measures of barley,” which led to “hunger” and “death” of the dispossessed and impoverished.

PMI and its consequence are illustrated by the prophetic era of the Laodicean church, which overlaps with the seventh-month autumnal festivals, and “the time of the end” in Daniel 8:17. The Laodicean epoch maintains terminological and thematic correspondence with the seven trumpets, the sealing in Revelation 7, and the last-days proclamations in Revelation 14. In continuing to substantiate this correspondence, it must be noted that a symbolic theological connection exists between PMI and the symbolism of the archer on the white horse. Scripturally, white is associated with righteousness (Daniel 7:9; Matthew 17:2; Mark 9:3; Luke 9:29; Revelation 1:12–14, 6:11, 19:8, 20:11). While horses predominantly represent apostasy for reliance upon their illicit power (Isaiah 2:6–7, 30:15–17; Amos 2:15), which is indicative of the end day covenant apostasy prophesied of in the NT (Matthew 5:13, 24:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12; 1 Timothy 4:1–3; Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10). In Jeremiah, “horsemen and bowmen” represent God’s agent Babylon in judging Jerusalem because “as a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore, they are become great, and waxen rich” (Jeremiah 4:29, 5:27).

Two great wars, market-driven exploitation of the poor and death, are the legacy of PMI, which is easily seen in the illustrations accompanying the red, black, and pale horses. And, most importantly, we cannot forget that the judgments illustrated by the trumpets must commence with God’s house, in agreement with 1 Peter 4:17. Peter’s principle substantiates that the exploitation described by the four horsemen—the oppression the souls lamenting in the fifth seal—develops from within God’s house in correspondence with OT precedent and NT prophecy (Isaiah 5:8–9, 10:2, 33:15; Jeremiah 34:8–17; Ezekiel 22:29, 45:9; Amos 8:2–7; Micah 2:2; Matthew 23:4; James 5:1–6). God’s people will be judged before the judgment that falls on the little horn, according to 1 Peter 4:17.

If I’m still on the forum, I will continue to reveal the parallels between the two sections of Revelation. The next installment will expand on the correspondence between the martyrs of the fifth seal and “the blood of the martyrs of Jesus” in Revelation 17:6.



1-Michael Tigar, Law and the Rise of Capitalism, Monthly Review Press (June 1, 2000) 173

2-Ronald Findlay, Kevin O’Rourke, War, Trade and Natural Resources: A Historical Perspective, paper was presented at the Yale- Princeton Conference on Trade and War, April, 2010, https://sites.socsci.uci.edu/~mrgarfin/OUP/papers/Findlay.pdf

3-John Hodges, “Cheap Food and Feeding the World Sustainably,” Livestock Production, Science 92 (2005), 1 –16, accessed October 27, 2018,

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.554.8233&rep=rep1&type=pdf

4-Michael Sievernich, “Christian Mission,” European History Online (EGO), Institute of European History (IEG), 2011-05-19, 3, accessed October 27, 2018,

Christian Mission — EGO

Following the adoption of Christianity by the European peoples in the course of a thousand years, the trans-cultural dissemination of Christian faith in the modern era proceeded essentially from Western Europe. Beginning in the 16th century, and under the patronage of the Iberian powers...

ieg-ego.eu

5-Benedikt Stuchtey, “Colonialism and Imperialism, 1450–1950,” European History Online (EGO), Institute of European History (IEG), Mainz 2011-01-24, 2, accessed October 27, 2018,

Colonialism and Imperialism, 1450–1950 — EGO

The colonial encirclement of the world is an integral component of European history from the Early Modern Period to the phase of decolonisation. Individual national and expansion histories referred to each other in varying degrees at different times but often also reinforced each other. Transfer...

ieg-ego.eu

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The prophecies in Revelation of Babylon and the rich merchants are defined by our time. The success of the merchants of the earth is predominately a modern event, coinciding with the discovery of the New World. We live in a time when merchants successfully compel society to believe happiness is synonymous with being rich and increased with goods–which enriches the merchants. And history affirms liberal Protestantism secularized modern society, which empowered and enriched the merchants and made them Babylon. The historical evidence exposes the futurist and preterist’s false narratives as fuel fit for the fire (1 Corinthians 3:13).

Again, the intercourse between liberal Protestants and the princes of the earth and the merchants affirms historicism. It reveals Babylon as a contemporary phenomenon, not a past or future event.

It is essential to understand that Revelation is under Christ's mediation in the New Covenant, not the Old. This means that any past or future narratives must take this into account. Throughout the narrative, Christ's judgment shows that what follows is a New Covenant phenomenon, not an Old one. To interpret the temple in Revelation as temporal Jerusalem, whether in the past or future, overlooks that Christ mediates over the New Covenant in heaven, not on earth. The Old mediation was earthly, whereas the New is not.

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. (Hebrews 9:24)​

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And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:16)​

As previously revealed, based on the Hebrew cultus, the seven typical feasts in the Hebrew calendar, Revelation Chapter 1 begins a linear narration that leads up to Christ’s return in Chapter 11, illustrating Christ’s mediation during the inter-advent age. Chapters 1-11 describe Christ’s intercession typified by Aaronic’s high priest starting “between the porch and the altar” and ending at the Holy of Holies, before “the ark of his testament.”

Developmental guidelines and historical evidence affirm John’s recap from the beginning of the first advent in Chapter 12 until the second in 19, followed by Christ’s millennial reign. Revelation 12 recaps the first advent to reveal the judgment upon Satan and the wicked; Chapters 13 and 17 follow a linear narrative. The accurate structuring of Revelation maintains the principle affirmed by Peter that judgment begins with the house of God in Chapters 1-11 and concludes with those “that obey not the gospel of God” in Chapters 12-19 (1 Peter 4:17).

As a result of the division of Revelation, there is chronological correspondence between the two sections. The era of the first church in Chapter 2 deals with the same time as the events illustrated in Chapter 12. And, as revealed in the previous post, Daniel 2:44 states that Christ returns in the days of the ten kings, not the Roman Empire. Rome ends, and the little horn rises amongst the ten horns in Daniel 7:8, corresponding to the beast rising from the sea in Revelation. The time illustrated by the beast's rise from the sea corresponds to the time of the fourth church, Thyatira.

Jezebel, the false prophetess at the time of Thyatira, attempts to seduce members of the House of God. As a false prophetess, she speaks misleadingly in place of God (2 Thessalonians 2:4), which is blasphemy. This blasphemy identifies her as the sea beast but from a different perspective, supporting recapitulation.

Both the fifth and sixth churches are warned of an impending judgment to “try them that dwell upon the earth,” conveyed in Revelation 3:10. The church of Philadelphia is admonished to overcome until Christ returns and that an “open door” is facing her, which we see in the next chapter.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (Revelation 4:1)​

The throne scene and the opening of the seven seals depict the trial anticipated in the warnings to the churches of Sardis and Philadelphia. The fifth seal reveals that in the days of the four horsemen, the saints are “slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held” (Revelation 6:9). These saints cry for justice to be done upon those who slay them and are told they must wait “a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled” (Revelation 6:11).

The blood of the saints that are martyred in the days of the four housemen corresponds to the blood the woman is intoxicated with in Revelation 17:6. The correspondence is upheld by the evidence that there is but one king left, the seventh, before the beast is healed and makes war against the two witnesses, “and shall overcome them, and kill them,” just before Christ’s return (Revelation 11:7).

As documented in the previous post, history affirms the rise of the merchants was accompanied by wars and the exploitation of their brethren to enrich themselves. This history reveals that seven-year-old children worked full-time in coal mines without laws regulating dangerous conditions and biohazards. Those who made up the working class had little or no bargaining power with the rich to relieve their plight. The population flocked to towns and cities with improper plumbing and sanitation facilities, which caused disease and suffering. The factories broke up the families by having fathers, mothers, and children work separately, in contrast to the traditional life from whence they came.

Again, it was the liberal Protestants that had intercourse with the princes of the earth and the merchants that brought about all of the wars and exploitation of their brethren, so the blood that was shed could be laid at their feet, making them Babylon.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Let us not forget the inadequate futurist's and preterists' responses to the historical evidence that liberal Protestantism fostered secularism, which enriched the merchants of the earth, fulfilling the role of Babylon in the Revelation. One can't dismiss commenting on the feeble attempts to sidestep the historical expose' of liberal Protestantism's role in enriching the merchants.

Modern historians make the illustrations of the Revelation come alive. The avarice of the Laodiceans is the anathema of our current church culture; one has only to consider the prosperity gospel churches. Corporate empires vie for the soles of men. The merchants developed urban culture, plucking men from the land in fulfillment of the warnings of an impending trial to the churches of Sardis and Philadelphia.

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write… If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. (Revelation 3:1, 3)​

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But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (1 Peter 3:10)​

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 3:7, 10)​

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But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes… that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. (Deuteronomy 28:15, 63)​

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The avarice of the rich merchants in modern society is the fulfillment of James’ prophecy against “ye rich men,” who “the last days” swindle the “labourers” (James 5:1-5).

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And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of… slaves, and souls of men. (Revelation 18:11, 12, 13).​

The depictions of the four horsemen come alive through liberal Protestantism when it “went forth conquering, and to conquer,” advancing secularism in their missionary zeal, which facilitated the Industrial Revolution and the wars over the resources in the world, illustrated by the white and red horsemen. The literal heavens pass away with a great noise, and the elements melt with fervent heat at the detonation of the first atomic bomb.[1] Their advancement of Protestant liberal economics, laissez-faire, is represented by the rider of the black horse, characterizing the use of markets and national banks to control the prices of goods and services. The disruption of agricultural societies that followed caused famine, economic upheaval, and mortality, illustrated by the pale horse rider.

Futurists and preterists panic over the present truth that liberal Protestantism enriched the merchants because it agrees with the historicist’s interpretation that Revelation concerns Christ’s mediation over the temple built without hands and not an earthly one made by hands that involves only Jews. Such evidence points to Babylon’s fornication in Revelation as a covenant violation of the temple built without hands, taking precedent from the OT.

For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD… As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. (Jeremiah 5:11, 27-28)​

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Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat? The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works. (Amos 8:4-7)​

The present truth that liberal Protestantism enriched the merchants for some two-hundred years confirms that Revelation represents the continuous unfolding of history and that the symbols represent historical persons, nations, and events in the intra-advent age. The futurist and preterist’s views that Revelation strictly depicts accounts in the first century or our future are discredited by the present truth that liberal Protestantism enriched the merchants, which led to trade disputes, wars, exploitation of the brethren by being plucked from the land into gilded cages.

It is a commonly accepted fact by historians that liberal Protestantism has played a significant role in enriching merchants for some two centuries. Furthermore, this fact exposes the errors made by futurists and preterists in interpreting temporal indicators, such as the “forty and two months” mentioned in Revelation 13:5. By trying to apply the Revelation to either past or future events they are compelled to force a wooden opinion on prophetic time. But historical evidence shows that liberal Protestantism fulfills the role of mystery Babylon, invalidating these interpretations by establishing that the symbolism represents our current time. This validates the historicist’s lens or hermeneutic of prophetic time, where a day represents a year, as seen in “specific” apocalyptic passages. It follows that the characters in this drama are not the Jews of the past or future but Christians throughout the intra-advent age.

Radical devastations in symbolism, narration, and context occur in failing to view prophecy through the historicist’s lens or hermeneutic.

Some futurists believe that the Church will be taken to heaven before the great tribulation, in connection to the last seven years of the seventy weeks mentioned in Daniel 9, and interpolate the forty-two months in Revelation 13 as half of the seven literal years.

However, John sees “a great multitude” that comes out of “great tribulation” in white robes “before the Lamb” in Revelation 7, which contradicts that the saints are taken to heaven before the “great tribulation.”

Chapter 6 reveals the four horsemen as a part of the great tribulation, forewarned in the letters to the churches of Sardis and Philadelphia. The saints are martyred due to the release of the four horsemen and rewarded with white robes, connecting them with those that come out of great tribulations in the next chapter. The warning of an impending trial to Sardis and Philadelphia, the reward of the white robes in the fifth seal, and the fact that Christ mediates in the temple built without hands establish the horse riders as part of the great tribulation that the Church overcomes. The white robes represent the righteousness of the saints, the Church.

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (Revelation 19:7-8)​

Revelation does not support the saints being “raptured” before the great tribulation as in the absurd narration by the futurists.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:9-11)​

As previously stated, the four horsemen come alive through liberal Protestantism when it “went forth conquering, and to conquer,” advancing secularism in their missionary zeal, which facilitated the Industrial Revolution and the wars over the resources in the world, illustrated by the white and red horsemen. Their advancement of liberal economics, laissez-faire, is represented by the rider of the black horse, characterizing the use of markets and national banks to control the prices of goods and services. The disruption of the agrarian societies that followed caused famine, economic upheaval, and mortality, illustrated by the pale horse rider.

In preterism, significant changes occur in symbolism, narration, and context due to the failure to recognize the historicists’ hermeneutic. There is no historical evidence to support the interpretation that the merchants of John’s time were enriched by a people who “become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird” (Revelation 18:2). Rome never “became” such a habitation, insomuch as pagans epitomize in the state. And while the branches cast off became such a habitation, they did not enrich the merchants. History affirms that the prophecy of Mystery Babylon is fulfilled in modern times, eviscerating the preterist’s misrepresentations of temporal indicators.


[1] “When the atomic bomb burst over Hiroshima in 1945, the thoughts of Bible-believing Christians everywhere turned almost immediately to this verse. There was also widespread concern that man's newly discovered ability might get out of control and cause all ‘the elements to melt with fervent heat’! Seemingly, Peter had prophetically anticipated, 1,900 years in advance, the modern discovery of nuclear fission.” Henry M. Morris, Ph.D, “Melting Elements,” Institute for Creation Research, AUGUST 20, 2013, Melting Elements

Wikipedia “Trinity was the code name of the first detonation of a nuclear weapon, conducted by the United States Army at 5:29 a.m. MWT[a] (11:29:21 GMT) on July 16, 1945, as part of the Manhattan Project.” s.v. Trinity (nuclear test), modified August 2023, Trinity (nuclear test) - Wikipedia

 

[keras]

But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes… that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. (Deuteronomy 28:15, 63)

This warning and Prophecy, will soon come to pass:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people;

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, - Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide reset of our civilization. The event that comes unexpectedly; as a thief.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

This warning and Prophecy, will soon come to pass:

Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the Way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people;

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Followers of the right Way. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Zephaniah 14-18, Hosea 4:3, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, - Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide reset of our civilization. The event that comes unexpectedly; as a thief.

Are you a historicist, keras? If not, why are you posting here?

 

[keras]

Are you a historicist, keras? If not, why are you posting here?

I study history, if that is what you mean.
It is clear to me that most of Bible Prophecy remains to be fulfilled. We are told what God has planned to do, why should we be in the dark?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I study history, if that is what you mean.
It is clear to me that most of Bible Prophecy remains to be fulfilled. We are told what God has planned to do, why should we be in the dark?

You know what I mean, and I know you're not a historicist, and the rule is that only historicists are allowed to comment. Flaunting the rules would be trolling, in my opinion. I posted only for historicists because I don't want to hear a futurist's response but want the opinion of other historicists on the historical evidence that liberal Protestantism fulfilled the role of Mystery Babylon. Historicists are less apt to try and sidestep the evidence as you did. If you post again, I'll report you. Sorry, it has to be this way, but I'm done contending with false narratives and the avoidance of critical historical evidence in interpreting Revelation.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The prophecies in Revelation of Babylon and the rich merchants are defined by our time. The success of the merchants of the earth is predominately a modern event, coinciding with the discovery of the New World. We live in a time when merchants successfully compel society to believe happiness is synonymous with being rich and increased with goods–which enriches the merchants. And history affirms liberal Protestantism secularized modern society, which empowered and enriched the merchants and made them Babylon. The historical evidence exposes the futurist and preterist’s false narratives as fuel fit for the fire (1 Corinthians 3:13).

Didn't such merchants already exist in the ancient time? I remember such merchants were mentioned in the OT prophecy books, the great merchants of Babylon are just a replay of that. There's nothing new under the sun, a lots of crazy stuffs today are a revival of old pagan practices in ancient Greeco-Roman culture before Christendom in Europe.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Didn't such merchants already exist in the ancient time? I remember such merchants were mentioned in the OT prophecy books, the great merchants of Babylon are just a replay of that. There's nothing new under the sun, a lots of crazy stuffs today are a revival of old pagan practices in ancient Greeco-Roman culture before Christendom in Europe.

If you are not a Historicist, you're breaking the rules by posting here. And you don't read either. Here is part of my OP.

The actual narrative deems it impossible to interpret Revelation through a preterist lens, with their misrepresentations of temporal indicators, because ancient Jerusalem did not contribute to the prosperity of the merchants of the earth. The pagan Romans, Daniel’s fourth beast, enriched the merchants, and pagans cannot be construed as a harlot from a covenant perspective. Only God’s people are condemned for such covenant violations, and Jeremiah is the precedent.​

​

For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD… As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. (Jeremiah 5:11, 27-28)​

​

When Rome fell, the merchant lost their status in society, and the papacy kept them down because of the onus placed upon them and their avarice. It was liberal Protestantism that enriched them again.​

​

Now don't post unless you confirm you're a Historicist.​

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Whereas liberal Protestantism enriched the merchants of the earth, exposing it as Mystery Babylon, the fact also reveals the false narratives of futurism and preterism as the “wood, hay, stubble” to “be burned” in the “fire” of 1 Corinthians 3:13.

Furthermore, the fact also challenges past historicist’s assertions and their structuring of Revelation. The Roman Church is not Mystery Babylon. Knowing liberal Protestantism is Mystery Babylon establishes Revelation 17 as our time, not John’s. John sees the future time of the sixth king, insomuch as the merchants were reduced under feudalism and raised by liberal Protestantism.

Such evidence destroys any parallelism in Chapters 12-19, which is how traditional historicists such as Edward Bishop Elliott and Henry Grattan Guinness structured Revelation. John does not return to the first advent in Chapter 17. John commences with the events that come to pass in a twofold linear parallelism between chapters 1-11 and 12-19. The parallelism exists between these two narratives and does not exist within them. John does not return to recount events in the First Advent era when opening the first of the seven seals any more than he recounts events of the First Advent in Chapter 17, as the traditional historicists assert. Such recounting or recapitulation ignores developmental guidelines.

In Revelation 4:1, John receives visions of future events after hearing Christ's trumpet-like voice. This verse marks the beginning of what is to come after the letters to the seven churches. Scholars, including those outside the historicist perspective, acknowledge that the seven churches symbolize seven different eras between Christ's two comings. The seven churches are prophetic and symbolic, not just historical. Therefore, the "things which must be hereafter" pertain to the Laodicean era rather than a return to the first advent. Though the book of Revelation can be challenging to interpret, it offers crucial messages for those seeking to understand its significance. This development is further emphasized by the warnings to the Sardis and Philadelphia eras about the impending trial that will come upon the earth's inhabitants during the Laodicean period (Revelation 3:1, 3, 7, 10). The trial obviously begins with the four horsemen.

Revelation chapters 1 through 11 are filled with symbolic imagery related to Hebraic ceremonies. These symbols emphasize Christ's role as mediator between his two comings, with seven months marking the interval in the Hebraic ceremonies. The book begins with Christ's mediation after he completes the Spring Hebraic festivals, starting with Passover in Revelation 1:13. Like the festivals, the book's first half concludes with the seventh episode, representing the seventh church era between the Advents. This last church era merges with the judgment of the seven seals, which depict judgment upon the house of God before it falls upon those who do not obey the gospel. The structure of Revelation aligns with this sequence of events.

The books of Joel and Amos in the Bible illustrate this recurring pattern of judgment in the house of God. When his people are disobedient, God punishes them by allowing their enemies, such as Babylon, to conquer them. In Revelation, this disobedience is marked by the letter to Sardis and culminates with the Laodicean era. However, God also shows mercy and punishes the enemies of his people. In the Old Testament, this judgment is announced by the sound of a trumpet and the release of God's locust army, which looks like horses and runs like horse riders.

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. (Joel 2:1-4)​

In Revelation, these horsemen are undeniably illustrated by the first four seals, and the martyrs and saints of the fifth seal suffer under their hooves. Joel conveys that God’s mercy will turn back his judgment when his people repent and call upon his mercy.

Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. (Joel 2:12-13)​

This is illustrated by the petitions of the saints in the fifth seal, and the response is that the Church must endure for a “little season” before judgment falls upon their enemies (Revelation 6:9-11).

The progression of the judgment of the saints to their enemies is illustrated by the time of the seven trumpets, the seventh seal. The seven trumpets are prefaced by the “prayers of the saints” ascending before God, which fills the censer “with fire of the altar” that is cast down to the earth in fulfillment of “the day” in which “every man’s work shall be made manifest” in 1 Corinthians 3:13 (Revelation 8:1-5). Further evidence in the woes “to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!”

The next three angels that sound continue to punish the enemies of God’s people. This is prefaced by the sealing of God’s people in Chapter 7, which allows them to stand in the time of great tribulation.

And the fifth angel sounded… And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. (Revelation 9:1, 3-4)​

The final woe is the seventh trumpet and the return of Christ, and then John returns to the first advent in Chapter 12.

In the true structuring of Revelation, the seventh Church opens the time of the seven seals, while the seventh seal opens the time of the seven trumpets, and the seventh trumpet opens the seven plagues.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

It is hard to miss; we live in the time of the rich merchants of the earth. The prominence of commerce in the Revelation is unavoidably symbolic of our contemporary society. The mark of the beast is tied to commerce in which the merchants deal in “slaves, and souls of men” in Revelation 13:17 and 18:11-13. Then there is the commercial affluence of the Laodicean Church in Revelation 3:17 and the market-driven illustrations in the rider of the black horse in Revelation 6:5-6. And finally, and not least, Mystery Babylon has intercourse with the merchants in Revelation 18:3. Christians should have discernment. Any honest Christian layman in eschatology, the study of end times, must acknowledge we are in the times of the rich merchants.

Unsurprisingly, futurists, preterists, and even historicists are ignorant that Protestant liberalism enriched the merchants, exposing them as Mystery Babylon. The intercourse between Liberal Protestantism and the kings of the earth ended the Church’s influence over trade, enriching the merchants of the earth. The earth’s inhabitants have been made drunk with Protestant liberalism, the wine of Mystery Babylon. Protestant liberalism mothered many affluent denominations.

Furthermore, any layman with an inkling of understanding should know society is drunk with the propaganda we are rich and increased with goods, fulfilling Revelation 3:17. Historians agree Protestant liberalism commercialized the gospel, using market techniques to win converts.

In the course of a very few decades much of the church has embraced the way of mass culture in its drive to reduce everything to play and attractive entertainment. It has bowed to the demands of a consumer society and offers a message that more and often distracts for the moment than comforts for the long run. . . Marketing priorities preside. . . Instead the church has adapted its soul and life teaching to appeal to modern man, whose whole perception has been altered by a culture that allows him to expect entertainment, fun, and easy success. The believer-to-be expects to be confirmed in views already held, whether they are of his assumed greatness or his experienced inferiority. . . To the host of other experiences he now adds also his conversion and repentance as experiences without much content or without much awareness of the consequences. (Odo W. Middelmann, The Market Driven Church: The worldly Influence of Modern Culture on the Church in America, Crossway, January 12, 2004), 124-125.)​

If they were going to have a Constitution for all of the people, they somehow were going to have to get the government out of the religion business… The consequences for the churches were immense. They were now compelled to compete for adherents, rather than being assigned responsibility for parishioners as had been the almost universal European pattern… As Finke describes it, this process led to “a religious market that caters to the individual and makes religion an individual decision… the religious decision is an individual decision set in the context of a religious market with a wide array of diversity…”​

(Mark A. Noll, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind (p. 91-92). Eerdmans. Kindle Edition.)​

Historians confirm that the disestablishment or secularization of society led to “a religious market that caters to the individual,” fulfilling Paul’s prophecy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2 Timothy 4: 3-4)​

Could those “teachers” be futurists and preterists? It is undoubtedly pleasing to false believers that nothing terrible happens to Christians, like great tribulation or the pleasing and foolish notion that we live in Christ’s prophesied Messianic Kingdom today. Those are pleasing doctrines for itching ears who don’t like to face the reality we live in the time of the rich merchants of the earth.

The actual narrative of Revelation deems it impossible to interpret Revelation through a preterist lens, with their misrepresentations of temporal indicators, because ancient Jerusalem did not contribute to the prosperity of the merchants of the earth. The pagan Romans, Daniel’s fourth beast, enriched the merchants, and pagans cannot be construed as a harlot from a covenant perspective. Only God’s people are condemned for such covenant violations, and Jeremiah is the precedent.

For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD… As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. (Jeremiah 5:11, 27-28)​

Such evidence also deems it impossible to interpret Revelation through a futurist’s lens because the merchants of the earth have gained significant influence and riches for nearly two centuries from the impact of Protestantism, not some future phenomenon by the Jews. This reality regarding the two antagonists in Revelation - Babylon and the merchants - confirms Historicism. Futurists and preterists must make up alternate realities.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Where there is wisdom, Revelation 17:10-11 establishes that the scarlet beast “was and is not” while the sixth king “is,” making it one of the fallen five and the revived eighth king. There are seven kings, of which five have already fallen, and one is presently ruling, with one yet to come. When the seventh king arrives, he will reign briefly, and then the scarlet beast that reigned before the sixth king will rise to become the eighth. The beast that was and is not is the eighth, one of the seven, specifically the fifth; the little horn is the beast that goes into perdition in Revelation when Daniel is held as the precedent in interpreting Revelation.

This passage in Revelation 17 challenges the preterist and futurist interpretations of Revelation. Preterists must show that in John's time, the first advent, there was an emperor who preceded a sixth one, suffered a deadly wound, and was revived as the eighth. No historical account concerns the Roman emperors at Christ's first advent. On the other hand, futurists also assert the sixth king is of John's time and must show how their antichrist “was” before this first advent kingdom. All such explanations are fallacious and without merit. The passage is prefaced with the need for wisdom in discernment, which excludes the futurists and preterists’ accounts.

The evidence that the woman sits upon seven mountains also ties the woman to the beasts in Daniel 7. Futurist John Walvoord concedes the true interpretation of the mountains even as he mistakenly holds the sixth king is of John’s time,

The seven heads of the beast, however, are said to be symbolic of seven kings described in verse 10. Five of these are said to have fallen, one is in contemporary existence, that is, in John’s lifetime, the seventh is yet to come and will be followed by another described as the eighth, which is the beast itself. In the Greek there is no word for “there,” thus translated literally, the phrase is “and are seven kings.” The seven heads are best explained as referring to seven kings who represent seven successive forms of the kingdom… The mountains, then, are not piles of material rocks and earth at all, but royal or imperial powers, declared to be such by the angel himself.[1]​

Walvoord affirms that the Greek has no word for “there,” which makes the heads and mountains also seven kings in the passage; the heads, mountains, and kings are appositives; John renames the kingdoms in Daniel 7 and prophesies there are seven in all, renaming them as seven heads and seven mountains and seven kings, but Walvoord incorrectly attempts to add Egypt and Assyria to Daniel’s count,

Thus, then, we ascertain and identify the sixth in the list, which shows what sort of kings the angel meant. Of the same class with this, and belonging to the same category, there are five others—five which had then already run their course and passed away. But what five imperial mountains like Rome had been and gone, up to that time? Is history so obscure as not to tell us with unmistakable certainty? Preceding Rome the world had but five great names or nationalities answering to imperial Rome, and those scarce a schoolboy ought to miss. They are Greece, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt; no more, and no less. And these all were imperial powers like Rome.[2]​

Nevertheless, Daniel commences with the imperial power of Babylon, making Rome the fourth kingdom and the little horn the one whose dominion is taken away and given to the saints as a result of the judgment beforehand,

But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (Daniel 7:26-27)​

The preceding verses 23-25 affirm that the little horn’s dominion is taken and given to the saints at the “end,” establishing it as the fifth mountain or imperial power with its own dominion that supplants the fourth beast, Rome, after its fall.

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Daniel 7:23-25)​

Not only does the little horn supplant the Roman empire, but it also endures until the saints receive their reward, which John prophesied as the last trumpet in Revelation 11:15-19. The circumstances support that the little horn in Daniel is the revived or ascended eighth king in Revelation 17. This also agrees with the scriptural and historical proof that the scarlet beast, the papacy, reigns before the sixth king and ascends as the eighth king. The papacy was wounded almost to death by Protestant liberalism that enriched the merchants. The papacy is the beast wars with Christ at his return in Revelation 19:19. One cannot devise a futurist or preterist narrative that accounts for the evidence the eighth king is one of the fallen five, insomuch as it “was and is not.”

[1] John F. Walvoord, Revelation (The John Walvoord Prophecy Commentaries), Moody Publishers; New edition, April 1, 2011), 255
[2] John F. Walvoord, The Revelation of Jesus Christ, 1966, by The Moody Bible Institute of Chicago